[TwoEars]

Quote:

I really regret buying the HD650s as my first audiophile headphone. I hated everything about them in the laid back sound signature, and it made me give up on Sennheiser until I listened to the HD800s. I don't get why the HD650s are recommended so much, they can be good for classical and jazz but I could never enjoy EDM, rock, metal with them for the life of me.

 
Quote:

Yep, I agree fully. I just never understood the rave reviews about the senn 600s/650s (I had both for a long time; still have the 650s).
They always sounded like a cloudy, claustrophobic room to me, and they were too tight and clamping to be able to just put them on and forget them.

 
I understand what you're saying but I think you're also slightly missing the point - the HD600/650 isn't the best first headphone to get because it's the *best* first headphone you can get.
 
Some will prefer an ever more laid back sound than the HD600/650, some want it more upfront and faster, some want "beauty", some want "accuracy" and so on.
 
The beauty about the HD600/650 is that:
 
1. They are IMHO very good despite what you say - I find them superbly comfortable with a beautiful warm, natural, detailed and yet forgiving midrange.
 
2. Everyone who's been around audio know what they sound like (and this is the real kicker)
 
Reason number 2 is also why it's the perfect first serious headphone in much the same way that a BMW M3 is the perfect first serious performance car. You can always ask someone who knows cars and talk about the BMW M3 - it doesn't really matter if it's an old or new model, they've been around for ages and have a very similar feel.
 
In the case of the M3 you can always go:
 
"I like the M3 but I'd like something that feels ever grittier with more of a rally feel" --> Try an Impreza STI or Lancer Evo
 
"I like the M3 but I'd like more bottom end grunt and comfort" --> Try the Audi RS6 or Mercedes E63 AMG
 
"I like the M3 but I'd like something even more aggressive with a race car feel" --> Try the BMW M3 CSL, Porsche GT3 or Lotus Elise
 
"I like the M3 but it's not exotic enough, I'd like something that feels really special" --> Try the Audi R8 or Ferrari 360/430
 
You get the picture - the HD600/650 is the best first headphone in the world not only because they are great but also because they are the best baseline in the world. If you talk about the HD600/650 everyone will know what you're talking about.

 

[olor1n]

I love the HD800 and also love the HD650 (perhaps even more so than the flagship). I don't think they're mutually exclusive. I don't get how the HD650 is genre specific and I also scratch my head at the way some describe its sound. It's contrary to what I heard with my first pair and that holds true for the new one I've just acquired. Perhaps I'm not as discerning as some here, but what the HD650 concedes in technical terms, it more than makes up for in musicality and involvement. I greatly prefer it to the latest iteration of the LCD-2 and if forced to choose between it and the HD800, I suspect the HD650 would get the nod.

 

[DairyProduce]

Quote:

I'm probably one of the rare cases where I loved the HD800 from the start other than the price of course. I think I got lucky in that at that time I had an amp which was known to pair well with the HD800. It's a bit of a picky headphone however. Of course ever since I picked up the HE6 I think I like the balance more but don't see myself getting rid of either. However I do also have an AD2k which I don't use that I don't wanna get rid of either lol
 
I feel like the HD800 is similar to how the HD600 was in the past. Prior to the release of the HD800 the HD600 was something I felt that everyone should own at least once in their life (I still do actually. The HD600 is amazing at the $200 or so range in the used market) and I feel now the HD800 is something everyone should own or listen to at least once. It's a bit hard to say everyone should own since they are restrictive in price. 

 
From your sig I guess you're using the schiit mjolnir? I've read that a lot of people think a tube amp works well with the HD 800. Did you try any of them? 

 

[Shahrose]

I can't imagine anyone picking the HD650 over the HD800 when both are fed quality signals. The former is so far behind it's staggering. This is coming from someone who's always loved the HD650 and has owned 4 pairs with all sorts of cables.
 
The only time I prefer the HD650 over its big brother is through something like a laptop, or DAP, or super low quality recordings.

 

[gmahler2u]

I sold my hd 650...I had antique tube amp with that, however, I wasn't happy with what I was hearing with hd650.
I was beginning headfier then.  I love my hd 800, great sounding headphone.

 

[sphinxvc]

I can see where olor1n's coming from...my observation's been that there's a trade off between technical capabilities & musical engagement.  At the HD650 end of the spectrum, you have lesser technical ability, more musical engagement.  At the other end, you have more technical ability, and generally less musical engagement.  And when you step beyond that to the top of what money can buy: an SR-009, or R10, or really good speaker/listening rooms...then you find the two points converging closer than ever; seriously good gear tends to be transparent to a degree where all you can criticize is the music itself.  It goes beyond technical ability, quality signals, this shaped signature, that shaped signature, and whatever else.

 

[qqexpress]

What do you guys think of the Schiit Gungnir + Mjolnir stack with the HD800? What quality cable do you guys recommend?

 

[SladeWilson]

I like it

 
 

 

[gmahler2u]

asgard and bifrost is also great combo. 

 

[rawrster]

Quote:

 
From your sig I guess you're using the schiit mjolnir? I've read that a lot of people think a tube amp works well with the HD 800. Did you try any of them? 

 
 
Yes I am using the Mjolnir with my D1 dac. I've been considering getting a second dac for some time now like a Yulong D18 but that's no time soon and another story. However I like the Mjolnir and the HD800. I find that they pair very well and it also helps that it sounds good with my HE-6 but not so good with my AD2k since that is SE and I would need to get someone to recable it into balanced to use it which I may one day do. I did try out some tube amps but not at the level of the Mjolnir and probably never will. I just prefer the ease of solid state and didn't want to mess with tube rolling and the cost of it and also most tube amps are large and knowing me I would want to try out many tubes and thus take up a good amount of space and I don't want too much space to be taken up by my rig. I'm just more of a solid state guy than tube.

 

[johnjen]

I only have the Mojo amp. I'm using the Headroom UDAC being fed from my Mac Pro via a SPDIF connection.

So far I'm using DiMarzio stubby balanced interconnects,
http://www.head-fi.org/products/dimarzio-xlr-balanced-interconnects-1-5ft
and the Q Audio balanced headphone cables,
http://www.q-audio.com/
I also made up 2 sets of AC power cables from BottleHead,
http://www.bottlehead.com/store.php?crn=221&rn=450&action=show_detail
which also really help.

I also have added the anax mods to the HD-800 which helps a HUGE amount.

This setup is amazing. The inner detail and dynamics as well as spatial presentation is quite remarkable. And the sense of palpability and small signal dynamics leads to a richness and fascination with and in the music.

I do look forward to experiencing the Ganga DAC as well. Just to hear the differences.

YMMV

JJ

What do you guys think of the Schiit Gungnir + Mjolnir stack with the HD800? What quality cable do you guys recommend?

 

[TwoEars]

I can see where olor1n's coming from...my observation's been that there's a trade off between technical capabilities & musical engagement.  At the HD650 end of the spectrum, you have lesser technical ability, more musical engagement.  At the other end, you have more technical ability, and generally less musical engagement.  And when you step beyond that to the top of what money can buy: an SR-009, or R10, or really good speaker/listening rooms...then you find the two points converging closer than ever; seriously good gear tends to be transparent to a degree where all you can criticize is the music itself.  It goes beyond technical ability, quality signals, this shaped signature, that shaped signature, and whatever else.

Well said - I've been thinking that but never clearly enough to put it into so many words.

There are only a few speaker systems I've heard in my life that have done this; one was an electrostatic rig driven by tubes in a dedicated listening room and it sent goosebumps down my spine, another was a pair of audio physic speakers driven by a huge class-A amp also in a small purpose built listening room - the imaging was carved from stone.

I've heard others as well but those two were masterfully installed - the room and the speakers disappeared and the only thing that remained was the music

Luckily enough I think my D1 and HD800 combo with some tweaks and EQ'ing is able to perform the same magic - the detail, soundstage and clarity is mesmerizing and in my opinion I've managed to work away all the harsh edges that people sometimes associate with the HD800 - so I'm pretty damn happy!

I would definitely agree that the HD650 is on the musical engagement side of the spectrum but I would also argue that the HD800 has what it takes to serve as a perfectly transparent transducer - but it does indeed need careful setup. A few dB of EQ'ing here and there makes a world of difference.

 

[johnjen]

+1 x10^10

HD-800's can become not only musical but musically compelling.

And just to satisfy my curiosity what EQ do you use?

JJ

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

+1 x10^10
HD-800's can become not only musical but musically compelling.
And just to satisfy my curiosity what EQ do you use?
JJ

 
I also feel the HD800s can be made to sound musical without compromising their technical performance.
 
Edit: Personally, I don't feel this *requires* a tube amp, but it's easier probably to accomplish it with valves.

 

[johnjen]

It's been several decades since I played tubes.

But when I added the Mojo amp to my 'stack', along with a few cables, the 'compelling' was immediately added to the musical description. Granted it took ≈ 80 hrs of break in before the liquid started to happen, and it is still blossoming albeit at a slower rate now (≈350 hrs)

The increase in resolution and small signal dynamics certainly reminds me of tubes. But that is sorta what I expected with an inherently balanced simplified circuit design using high-voltage JFET inputs and MOSFET outputs. These devices 'mimic' tubes in several ways one of which is they tend to favor even order harmonics (like tubes) instead of odd order harmonics. And the VERY low THD, large voltage output swing capability, with no negative feedback, and just a single gain stage (low(er) parts count) also looked very promising.

I'm not disappointed, in the least. And my HD-800's most happily concur.

JJ

I also feel the HD800s can be made to sound musical without compromising their technical performance.

Edit: Personally, I don't feel this *requires* a tube amp, but it's easier probably to accomplish it with valves.