[MorbidToaster]

I agree that the HD800 images better but for me (with the LL) the 009 pretty much did everything else better...and for me I liked the staging slightly more intimate like the 009 for my kind of music. The HD800 just feels too big sometimes.
 
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I may not like the overall tonality of the HD800 but if there is one thing that these headphones do exceedingly well, it's their imaging abilities. I have finally auditioned the SR-009 and BHSE not too long ago and while it eats the HD800 (and all other headphones too including the STAX's little brother, 007) for breakfast in all other areas, I think the HD800 still images better.
 
Or am I going crazy? 

 

[lawlz]

Hi all, I am planning to get the HD800's in a couple weeks and am going crazy at trying to find out what amp/dac combo I need to use these things at an acceptable level! I don't expect maximum clarity or resolution but I do want to be able to enjoy the HD800's for what they are.
 
I have a budget of about $700-$850 for both an Amp/DAC. Any recommendations?

 

[Mad Dude]

Quote:

Yeah, I know, but those were a few days of testing and mostly it was a slightly hint of sibilance, I could detect with the HD800 and T1, except for some bad recorded pop/rock songs.

 
In my opinion, a headphone like the HD800 should be able to handle poorly recorded music just as well as an excellent classical recording. This is, for me, a major criterion for any headphone. Of course no headphone can turn a bad recording into a good one, but it should at least present it in a way that does not offend one's ears. Though it should be mentioned that even the stock HD800 does this much better than most (any?) other bright-ish headphones.
 
 
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Btw. I just tried out your EQ-settings and have to say, that the HD800 sounds totally veiled now. Not good, IMHO.
[...]
Having HD600 and HD650, too, I think you should learn to accept and love the better/other sound of the HD800 without EQ and it will grow on you.
 

 
Of course, one could call the resulting sound veiled, if the "stock" sound is what you are looking for, which is perfectly legititmate of course. However, for me the HD800 has exaggerated treble: this makes them sound even more detailed, or rather, it focuses the sound on very small details. This is perfectly fine, perhaps even desirable, for (instumental) classical music (or similar), but to me at least, it sounds very unnatural. Live concerts, both acoustic and amlified, never exhibit this amount of high frequencies - to my ears at least, but keep in mind everyon's ears are different. Also, the HD800 does not need this elevated treble to sound very detailed, unlike some lesser headphones that use boosted treble to create a fake detailed sound.
That's why I'm aiming for a more balanced/rounded presentation, in this case achieved by lowering the treble to be more in line with the rest of the frequency response.
 
Also, personal preferences aside, I don't know just how much influence the type of EQ used has on the sound quality. I've tried some foobar plugins myself, and all of them made the resulting sound somewhat artificial and muffled - perhaps that's what you are experiencing, causing the "veiled" sound. Using a hardware GEQ, I experience none of these issues, as long as reasonable adjustments are applied (too many and/or too strong adjustments will affect the sound in a negative way). As a result, the HD800 retains all of its positive qualities, while losing the (IMO) undesirable treble elevation. Also, I've found that my settings answer very well for general listening, not just for certain genres (or recordings). I do adjust the bass on occasion, depending on my mood and on the recording, but otherwise I've found that no adjustments are necessary. As usual, Geschmackssache

 
I'll gladly try your suggested EQ settings as well.

 

[K3cT]

Quote:

 
Nope.  I still prefer the 800 to the 009 in other areas as well tbh.
 
As for the treble grain issue, I've begun to wonder whether it's the 800 or the source/amps.  The more I listen to better and better gear I'm beginning to think it's not the phones fault at all.

 
I'm pretty sure the HD800's bass extends deeper as well although the SR-009 has a better impact.
 
As for the treble grain, it's definitely something inherent with the HD800 but I suppose this is a "weakness" of dynamic drivers in general. That sensation of complete blackness and cleanliness seems to be exclusive to planar drivers but well... like I said, they don't image as well as their dynamic counterparts.
 
Well, personally for me I can live with the HD800's imperfect treble but it's the distant midrange that seriously makes me frown hard. 
 
 
Quote:

I agree that the HD800 images better but for me (with the LL) the 009 pretty much did everything else better...and for me I liked the staging slightly more intimate like the 009 for my kind of music. The HD800 just feels too big sometimes.
 

 
Oh, I definitely agree that the SR-009 has a more realistic soundstage than the HD800. It's a seriously good electrostats. I never really like the Omega2 (I would take the HD800, LCD-2 and LCD-3 over the 007 anytime) but the SR-009 is a completely different proposition. 

 

[MorbidToaster]

I want to try the 007 again because many make it seem like I didn't hear them to their full potential last time but the general consensus seems to be that the 009 is just better. 
 
I'd say bass extension is as good or slightly better on the 009s and slam is definitely better on the 009. I was blown away by that. I've never felt a good kick from a stat.
 
They're both just seriously good though. If I hadn't heard the 009 I'd still be very happy with my LF + HD800...but after hearing it it's poisoned my previous system in my head.
 
Quote:

 
Oh, I definitely agree that the SR-009 has a more realistic soundstage than the HD800. It's a seriously good electrostats. I never really like the Omega2 (I would take the HD800, LCD-2 and LCD-3 over the 007 anytime) but the SR-009 is a completely different proposition. 

 

[Anaxilus]

Quote:

In my opinion, a headphone like the HD800 should be able to handle poorly recorded music just as well as an excellent classical recording. This is, for me, a major criterion for any headphone. Of course no headphone can turn a bad recording into a good one, but it should at least present it in a way that does not offend one's ears.
 
I don't understand or agree with this.  Many recordings are actually quite offensive on their own.  Making them sound 'better' would be masking what they really are defeating the purpose.  If you get a chance try other amps and sources, you might be surprised how little EQ you need if any.  Your EQ indicates to me quite a skewed affect by your system on the 800 unless you are hyper sensitive to treble from my experience.  

Quote:

I'm pretty sure the HD800's bass extends deeper as well although the SR-009 has a better impact.
 
I actually get better impact on the 800 myself w/ my rig, YMMV.  
 
Well, personally for me I can live with the HD800's imperfect treble but it's the distant midrange that seriously makes me frown hard. 
 
For me, I've only had issues at lower volumes.  When I notice it and think it stands out, I swap phones and realize it's only a problem when the recording is inherently distant as well.  How loud one listens and their own reflex could be a contributor.

 

[Mad Dude]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaxilus /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
I don't understand or agree with this.  Many recordings are actually quite offensive on their own.
Making them sound 'better' would be masking what they really are defeating the purpose.

 
Agreed - and a good headphone will, and should, reveal the flaws in a recording. But that's not my point. I mean that these flaws, while they should be audible, should not be highlighted artificially. The latter is often the case with bright headphones, making sibilance (for example) that is present in a recording even more pronounced. This is, in my opinion, not desirable.
 
Also, correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't it the goal of your own HD800 mod to tame the highs a bit? It seems to me we're both aiming for the same thing, by different means.
 
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anaxilus /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
If you get a chance try other amps and sources, you might be surprised how little EQ you need if any.  Your EQ indicates to me quite a skewed affect by your system on the 800 unless you are hyper sensitive to treble from my experience. 

 
Now it's my turn to disagree. While my setup probably doesn't consist of exotic high-end audiophile-grade components, I will say that it is perfectly capable of driving the HD800 without introducing any unwanted coloration (apart from the EQ, obviously). What do you wish to achieve with better/different components? Some devices may introduce coloration, which possibly "enhances" the sound in a way, but I'll rather take the rational approach: A neutral system, capable of driving the desired headphones/speakers, and then adjusting the sound by EQ according to personal preferences (!). This not only allows me to have full control over any sort of coloration that is applied, but also allows me to bypass the EQ whenever I wish - Whereas a colored amp will always alter the sound.

 

[TT600R]

I own the HD800 for about 2 month now and with the setup I own,I find it rather bassheavy.
I have a rather awkward amp,it's a 40+ year old single ended tube amp,which is rebuild to a headphone amp.
It has some genuine telefunken EL84.
My ampbuilder listened to the system and also noticed the amount of low frequencies.(He normally works on Audio Note systems)
Anyone got a clue what would cause this bass boost?
Got a NAS/Flac hooked to a Logitech Touch,DAC is a Musical Fidelity V- DAC2.
Serial HD800 is 15xxx.
Considering a Equalizer to tame things down...
 

 

[.Sup]

I own the HD800 for about 2 month now and with the setup I own,I find it rather bassheavy.
I have a rather awkward amp,it's a 40+ year old single ended tube amp,which is rebuild to a headphone amp.
It has some genuine telefunken EL84.
My ampbuilder listened to the system and also noticed the amount of low frequencies.(He normally works on Audio Note systems)
Anyone got a clue what would cause this bass boost?
Got a NAS/Flac hooked to a Logitech Touch,DAC is a Musical Fidelity V- DAC2.
Serial HD800 is 15xxx.
Considering a Equalizer to tame things down...

 

Does the amp have tone controls?

 

[TT600R]

No,they where cut off
 

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

 
Nope.  I still prefer the 800 to the 009 in other areas as well tbh.
 
As for the treble grain issue, I've begun to wonder whether it's the 800 or the source/amps.  The more I listen to better and better gear I'm beginning to think it's not the phones fault at all.

 
Yes, I feel the source and amp are both significant factors. But, you should really try a different cable. I've owned many now, and if there was one quality each of the aftermarket offerings shared, it was the smoothening of the treble. I don't just mean shelving it, I mean qualitatively improving it. Also, this effect was noticeable regardless of the upstream gear. IMO, if you have anything but lead ears, you'll hear the difference. (As always, meet/store impressions don't count, it takes time to appreciate these subtleties).
 
Quote:

 
As for the treble grain, it's definitely something inherent with the HD800 but I suppose this is a "weakness" of dynamic drivers in general. That sensation of complete blackness and cleanliness seems to be exclusive to planar drivers but well... like I said, they don't image as well as their dynamic counterparts.
 
Well, personally for me I can live with the HD800's imperfect treble but it's the distant midrange that seriously makes me frown hard.
 
Oh, I definitely agree that the SR-009 has a more realistic soundstage than the HD800. It's a seriously good electrostats. I never really like the Omega2 (I would take the HD800, LCD-2 and LCD-3 over the 007 anytime) but the SR-009 is a completely different proposition. 

 
I used to think this, but changed my mind as my system evolved. For one, just a cable swap on the HD800s got rid of a lot of the scratchiness/grain in the lower treble.
 
Blackness, BTW, is better on my HD800s compared to the HE6 and LCD2 Rev. 2 right now.

 

[sphinxvc]

Tried the F3 w/ speaker taps on my 800s today, and the result was surprisingly good. It's more spaced out than my tube amp and when things start to overlap in busy passages, you can make out each instrument more distinctly. Echoing what I said earlier, this solid state is an example of good solid state that doesn't have to be edgy, harsh, or lacking in holography. In fact it's easier on the ears than my tube amp.

Edit: it's also worth noting that the degree of change between the two amps was most noticeable thru the HD800s compared to the LCD-2 or K1K.

 

[.Sup]

Tried the F3 w/ speaker taps on my 800s today, and the result was surprisingly good. It's more spaced out than my tube amp and when things start to overlap in busy passages, you can make out each instrument more distinctly. Echoing what I said earlier, this solid state is an example of good solid state that doesn't have to be edgy, harsh, or lacking in holography. In fact it's easier on the ears than my tube amp.
Edit: it's also worth noting that the degree of change between the two amps was most noticeable thru the HD800s compared to the LCD-2 or K1K.

but how do you adjust volume? The slightest volume knob bump might be too much for HD800?

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

but how do you adjust volume? The slightest volume knob bump might be too much for HD800?

 
Primarily, I'm careful with the knob.  And it helps that the F3 is only 15 watts into 8ohms, so it's delicate enough.  The Zodiac has a built-in analog preamp that can attenuate volume from -90db to 0 in 1 db steps.

 

[sphinxvc]

Ahhh...I can't figure out whether to do a hardware EQ or not.  Can anyone share opinions/advice on this?
 
Reasons for: it would be a "system" EQ and all sources hooked up to my Zodiac would benefit from it.  The Behringer DEQ24/96 is the one I've been looking at, and it has a lot of features & precision.  Nikongod uses it well in his rig.
 
Reasons against: why go through all this trouble to select components over the last year and a half only to throw some low level pro-audio, aspiring DJ equipment in the mix?  It'll add another stage in the signal path and clarity may be lost.  Yikes, another head-fi vet, used it in his fancy speaker rig and said it significantly decreased resolution.
 
I guess I could go for a "better" EQ, but that would up costs heavily.  The low cost alternative is the Anaxilus mod but I was really hoping to do frequency sweeps with the EQ to get everything relatively flat.