[John Willett]

I had a very interesting listen at the Bristol Hi-Fi show this last weekend.
 
Sennheiser were showing the HD 800 (serial number 15,???) and the new HD 700 through the new Grace m903.
 
Someone came along with his 3-year old HD 800s that had a serial number in the 1,000s - so very well run in - and I was able to compare the two.  On the run-in pair the top end was a lot smoother and they were better and more rounded overall.
 
It was a very enlightening experience.
 

 

[Saintly]

I had a very interesting listen at the Bristol Hi-Fi show this last weekend.
 
Sennheiser were showing the HD 800 (serial number 15,???) and the new HD 700 through the new Grace m903.
 
Someone came along with his 3-year old HD 800s that had a serial number in the 1,000s - so very well run in - and I was able to compare the two.  On the run-in pair the top end was a lot smoother and they were better and more rounded overall.
 
It was a very enlightening experience.
 

Or it was just manufacturing variation.

 

[Stormfriend]

Damn, I was at the show and decided not to compare my HD800s with those on demo as I'd assumed they were using Lehmann BCLs again.  If I'd known they were using the Grace m903 I would have done (as an impromptu Grace demo).  Sad thing about the HD800 is its almost impossible to demo them properly in a noisy environment, so it wouldn't have been conclusive anyway.
 
I hate brightness, but love airiness and headphones that relax and breathe, if you can imagine what I mean.  I've tried a number of headphone amps, MF M1 HPA, ten year old Earmax and the output from an Eximus DP1, various cables including Cardas, Nordost, Audioquest, Siltech and others, the Hi-face Evo vs spdif from the PC, and upgraded the headphone cable to Cardas.  However, the biggest single difference to the balance of the system has come from the DAC.  On some DACs the sound is far too bright for my taste (MF M1 DAC, Dacmagic, Eximus DP1) whereas on others its lush and bassy (Micromega T-DAC, Arcam D33).  The Arcam wasn't run in, so treat my opinion on that with more salt than normal, but the Micromega is 20 years old and although it lacks spaciousness, detail, and airiness I can crank the volume and the result is big, rich and bassy.  The Arcam sounded very similar but with more detail (very subtely presented) and it made everything sound interesting for the weekend I had it.  I'll try it again later when the dealer's unit is run in.  I'm lining up a demo of the NAD M51 at the moment.
 
The difference between DACs alone is sufficient to take the system from beautifully lush and engaging (I can listen all weekend), to so bright its unlistenable (ten minutes is enough).  Price and quality has nothing to do with it, its a more fundamental balance issue.  Before buying the HD800s I would never have believed it!

 

[ac500]

> Sad thing about the HD800 is its almost impossible to demo them properly in a noisy environment, so it wouldn't have been conclusive anyway.
 

Yeah, when I went to the local meet there was so much background crowd noise, it was pretty much impossible to judge anything. You can kindof judge the overall tone of various headphones, but you really need a perfectly silent background to judge the fine details -- what audiophiles care about. Even when I have my fan on in the background I notice a lot of the HD800s details are smothered.​

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Or it was just manufacturing variation.

Unlikely - the quality control in production would not be that different.
 
The owner of the run-in pair dis not like the one on display and came back again next day to try out his own on the same equipment.
 

 

[Saintly]

Unlikely - the quality control in production would not be that different.
 
The owner of the run-in pair dis not like the one on display and came back again next day to try out his own on the same equipment.
 

Have you not seen the variation in the frequency responses from that thread? Burn-in doesn't take 3 years...

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Damn, I was at the show and decided not to compare my HD800s with those on demo as I'd assumed they were using Lehmann BCLs again.  If I'd known they were using the Grace m903 I would have done (as an impromptu Grace demo).  Sad thing about the HD800 is its almost impossible to demo them properly in a noisy environment, so it wouldn't have been conclusive anyway.
 

What a pity - you obviously did not read the posts where I said that Sennheiser UK would be using a Grace m903.
 
Actually Sennheiser UK own a Grace m902, which they normally use to demo. the 800.  It's only in Germany where they use the Lehmann I think.
 
Actually, there was a second pair of HD 800 on demo at Bristol - in the PMC room with a Bryston DAC and Headphone Amp. (and a much quieter environment that that on the Sennheiser stand).
 
You missed a golden opportunity I think.
 
 

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Have you not seen the variation in the frequency responses from that thread? Burn-in doesn't take 3 years...

No, but the 3-year old pair would have been fully burned-in as opposed to a 15,??? numbered demo pair that had only been out a few times.
 
 

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

> Sad thing about the HD800 is its almost impossible to demo them properly in a noisy environment, so it wouldn't have been conclusive anyway.
 

Yeah, when I went to the local meet there was so much background crowd noise, it was pretty much impossible to judge anything. ​

Yes, in a way; but listening to the HD 800 at the show there was still enough information to show the too-close miking of a guitar, give me a lot of information about the vocal  mic. and positioning and the miking of the piano (which I did not like very much).

 

[Carl6868]

Hi John

 
Were you sat at the desk yesterday morning as whoever was sat there said exactly that about the close miking ?
 
I had a listen and also listened to the pair on the Bryston and i came away from the show £800 lighter

 serial # 153**
Quote:

Yes, in a way; but listening to the HD 800 at the show there was still enough information to show the too-close miking of a guitar, give me a lot of information about the vocal  mic. and positioning and the miking of the piano (which I did not like very much).

 
 

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Hi John

 
Were you sat at the desk yesterday morning as whoever was sat there said exactly that about the close miking ?
 
I had a listen and also listened to the pair on the Bryston and i came away from the show £800 lighter

 serial # 153**


 
 

 
Yes, that was me - I was doing the UK agent for Grace a favour and did a deal with my old friends at Sennheiser UK to show the Grace m903 there (the one at the show was mine).
 
The 903 is the only Grace product that crosses over to the consumer side and as I use the 903 myself (and know more about the 800 than the sales people at Sennheiser UK) everyone was happy for me to sit there.
 

 
 

 

[Stormfriend]

Quote:

What a pity - you obviously did not read the posts where I said that Sennheiser UK would be using a Grace m903.
 
You missed a golden opportunity I think.

 
I didn't see them in the PMC room at all, so that was a missed opportunity. I did get a quiet after-show listen to them on an Audio Note 2.1x, but that was it for demoing purposes.  And I haven't read this thread for a while, more fool me...
 
I see you use the m903 yourself; do the HD800s on that ever become thin or bright, or is the sound always well-rounded and vibrant?  I've found someone who can sell me an m903 on 30 days sale or return come March, so its still on my list.

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

 
I didn't see them in the PMC room at all, so that was a missed opportunity. I did get a quiet after-show listen to them on an Audio Note 2.1x, but that was it for demoing purposes.  And I haven't read this thread for a while, more fool me...
 
I see you use the m903 yourself; do the HD800s on that ever become thin or bright, or is the sound always well-rounded and vibrant?  I've found someone who can sell me an m903 on 30 days sale or return come March, so its still on my list.

The m903 was designed as a studio monitor controller - I find it just accurate and neutral - it does not impose any sound of its own on the music, it just shows what's there.
 
All I can say is give it a try and it looks like you have a golden opportunity.
 
 

 

[pigmode]

Quote:

Quote:

Why are the hd600s more preferable to these things?

Because they are much cheaper, much easier to drive and much more forgiving. 

 
Which is basically saying the HD600 is not preferable to the HD800 because they exist at different levels. Apples, oranges, yada, yada, yada. Otoh when I finally listened to the HD800, my first thought was HD600. 

 

[Olias of Sunhillow]

Quote:

I see you use the m903 yourself; do the HD800s on that ever become thin or bright, or is the sound always well-rounded and vibrant?  I've found someone who can sell me an m903 on 30 days sale or return come March, so its still on my list.

I've recently returned to the HD800 after selling my first pair because I found them "thin and bright" as you say. I'm experiencing something quite different this time around.
 
My amps are the m903 and Liquid Fire. I'm using the m903 as the source in both cases. I'm happy (and somewhat surprised) to report that the m903 holds its own quite well. I find the m903 to be slightly more enjoyable and musical with the HD800, with perhaps just a bit of a treble roll-off at the very top. By comparison, the Liquid Fire is less forgiving in the treble and has an overall more analytical feel. I'd say that since I've gotten this pair of HD800, I've split them 50/50 between the two amps. I really, really like the LF, so this is pretty high praise.
 
FWIW, I visited the Grace workshop here in Boulder last week to pick up some spare fuses. Great bunch of folks with something of an old-world craftsman's approach to things.