[Anaxilus]

Thx HPA.  I need to hear a Luxman one of these days.
 
I think one reason myself, purrin and a few others feel a substantially resolving source and amp is the best way to go for the HD800 is because they can actually resolve those devices in ways many other phones can't.  If one is looking to skimp on the chain for whatever reason (talking technical ability, not necessarily cost), then it simply makes sense to go with a cheaper and/or less resolving phone.
 
If you're not into commitment in your relationships the HD800 might not be the best idea. 

 

[Gwarmi]

 
 Hmmm, perhaps it was the Violectric V800 at the other end feeding the Luxman P-1u, while it was
 quite pleasant with female vocals, I found it lacked slam and punch for anything energetic with the
 HD800. Certainly. bass was lacking across the board.
 
 And finally ~ is the P-1u the largest single chassis solid state head amp in the world? Has to be.

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Good to know about the V200/V100.
 
Too bad about the tubes thing though. I don't like tubes.

You don't need tubes - the HD 800 sounds perfect through my Grace m902b (shortly to be upgraded to the m903).

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Best DAC for HD800 under $2000 
 

Grace m903

 

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

 
See, this has always confused me. How much are DAC chips actually worth? Something like $20 or maybe $50 at most? So then what else is pushing the cost up so much? Seriously, why do "high end" DACs cost so much and what makes them so special? It's not like they have massive amplification to perform. Are you sure there's no placebo beyond the DAC chip itself?
 

Yes, the DAC chips are important - but what is more important is the analogue circuitry that is also there.  Really good analogue circuitry costs money and someone who really understands it.
 
This is where a lot of equipment can fall down if they only use digital designers who don't fully untarstand analogie audio.
 
 

 

[ac500]

But isn't the analog design coming out of a DAC much much easier than out of an amp, considering that there's no tough requirement to pump out a robust high powered signal. In other words, how can a DAC cost more than an amp -- wouldn't that imply that the amp is at least not doing the DAC justice?  

Quote:

You don't need tubes - the HD 800 sounds perfect through my Grace m902b (shortly to be upgraded to the m903).

Well that's probably the first suggestion that used the word "perfect" with anything under... $4000 or so. At ~$1500-$1800 the Grace m902/903 is something I might actually be able to justify the expense within the next year (probably not though).
 
These are the kind of options I'm looking for I guess, mostly because I'm not really planning on paying more than my headphone in amplifiers/etc. because A) I don't have tens of thousands laying around to spare right now and B) I'm skeptical it makes a significant audible difference until I go to a meet and hear various ultra-expensive amps.
 
Anyway thanks for all the good suggestions so far. I really wish we had a wiki though for headphones, with a table containing suggestions of amps for each headphone sorted by price and quality.

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

But isn't the analog design coming out of a DAC much much easier than out of an amp, considering that there's no tough requirement to pump out a robust high powered signal. In other words, how can a DAC cost more than an amp -- wouldn't that imply that the amp is at least not doing the DAC justice? 
 

I would not say "easier" - just a DAC does not amplify so much.
 
My DAC is also a headphone amp (in fact also a monitor controller).
 

 

[grokit]

Quote:

 I really wish we had a wiki though for headphones

Try this:
 
http://wiki.faust3d.com/wiki/index.php?title=Main_Page

 

[ac500]

I know wikis exist and I did check that one, but what I meant was I don't know why wikis don't have more information about headphones and particularly their popular amp combinations at various price points.

 

[purrin]

Quote:

I know wikis exist and I did check that one, but what I meant was I don't know why wikis don't have more information about headphones and particularly their popular amp combinations at various price points.

Because there is Head-Fi!
 

 

[ac500]

Yes I know but it seems every new [Headphone X] user has to either extensively research or ask people for opinions regarding amps. I mean it's fine because headfi is really helpful, but I sometimes feel bad asking what's probably been asked 1000 times. Even the Grace m903 opinion I didn't know despite reading though several pages of HD800 amp discussion -- basically the search function for this website it pretty bad.

 

[purrin]

Yeah, I use Google to search this site. It's HF, so feel free to ask stuff, even if it's the 10,000 time. The HD800 is picky with amps so you have good reason to ask.

 

[Gabrielisc]

Quote:

Yeah, I use Google to search this site. It's HF, so feel free to ask stuff, even if it's the 10,000 time. The HD800 is picky with amps so you have good reason to ask.

So purrin, i see you chose the PS PWD as a dac,
what would you range your DACs of choice around the 500-1000 range or do you think that the difference is so massive between a 1k dac to a 1.5k dac that make it justifiable?
 
For example, one could get a PS link 3 for $500 nowadays vs a audiolab m-dac for $1k vs a calyx for $1.8k
 
the grace m903 sounds like a decent deal, dac + ss amp for 1.8k, WA2 for another 1k and you have both ss + tube amps + a decent dac?
 
 

 

[purrin]

Quote:

So purrin, i see you chose the PS PWD as a dac,
what would you range your DACs of choice around the 500-1000 range or do you think that the difference is so massive between a 1k dac to a 1.5k dac that make it justifiable?
 
For example, one could get a PS link 3 for $500 nowadays vs a audiolab m-dac for $1k vs a calyx for $1.8k
 
the grace m903 sounds like a decent deal, dac + ss amp for 1.8k, WA2 for another 1k and you have both ss + tube amps + a decent dac?

 
I haven't been exposed to as many DACs as amps, but I did like the Bifrost. I heard Horio's Buffalo DAC build (think LEGO DIY), which was excellent. Never heard or even seen the Grace so I can't comment. IMO, once you get past 1k USD, the most typical glaring weaknesses tend to get somewhat fixed, and by that I mean the following:
 

• Wierd tonality
• Strident treble
• Lack of bass control -  mushy bass
• Lack of dynamics
• Blunted attacks and transients
• Lack of bass extension
• Really bad resolution

 
Which leaves minor increments in resolution - from $2k onward - then it's seriously bad return on the dollar because most recordings (at least the crap I listen to) suck.
 
My preference is for DACs that don't simulate pseudo-analog (meaning dark, rolled, forgiving and pleasant, excessively and unnaturally smooth, etc.) because vinyl doesn't sound like that - at least not to me. And if such a sound is desired, to let either the amp or headphone color the sound. The philosophy is that of once you lose it, you can't get it back.
 
P.S.  I like the Bifrost because it has excellent tonality and manages a good even ground for all of the other above factors. In other words, it doesn't screw up in any of the above categories. And that's rare a first for the current crop of inexpensive DACs.

 

[khaos974]

Quote:

I know wikis exist and I did check that one, but what I meant was I don't know why wikis don't have more information about headphones and particularly their popular amp combinations at various price points.

Mostly because there is no consensus