Sennheiser HD660S... Finally a successor for the HD650?
Apr 5, 2019 at 11:41 AM Post #4,156 of 9,624
As a professional musician and a life long H-Fi and headphone enthusiast I have to respond to this.

There's no doubt that the expectations and tastes of Hi-Fi and headphone enthusiasts differ (at times not inconsiderably) from those of professional musicians and recording engineers. To list these would require much more time than I'm going to spend writing this post, and indeed it could be the subject of an entire thread, but one of the differences, as I perceive it, is that very often enthusiasts place great importance on fidelity (which can mean a whole raft of things to different people) whereas professionals are more interested in a natural balance of all aspects of the production, and especially in tonal accuracy. I have heard quite a few (and own at least one) headphone which is regarded without question as being 'better' than the HD650. Technically, and in very many ways, especially in terms of fidelity, the HD800 is vastly superior to the HD650, and yet very often it doesn't satisfy musically. The reason I believe is that the 650, whilst far from perfect, presents a better balance and most importantly, better tonal accuracy. FWIW the HD650's sound much more like my ATC SL100A monitors than my HD800's do.

There's a great irony in the fact that enthusiasts often spend thousands chasing that last little bit of fidelity that they think will take them closer to the original source, when in fact very often what they are hearing is almost nothing like what the recording engineer and musicians themselves heard.

Individual taste in headphones is just that - individual taste, but to suggest that professional musicians who play the instruments themselves, and in many cases have heard what they sound like on replays in a recording studio, don't know better than non musicians what acoustic instruments should sound like in a good transducer (whether a loudspeaker or headphone) is, frankly, hilarious. Piano is often said to be the hardest test for a transducer. Pianist's generally know what a piano sounds like! :wink:
Mike what you and any other musician have as a free bonus, though earned by long exercise, is the physical expression of your instrument itself. My wife plays Accordeon. I sometimes volunteer for transport duties and tend to play some notes then on it. This instrument as an example has a physical presence when you play it, which cannot be recorded at all.
 
Apr 5, 2019 at 3:21 PM Post #4,157 of 9,624
Being a professional musician does not mean, that they (sorry Mike, you are an exception) really know better than other what sounds good. In case of the friends 3 doughters, I guess the youngest one is the only one who cares....I know some musicians myself, all have some state of hearing defects, especially violin players, and the music listening chain which they prefer is hilarious at times.

Hate to burst your bubble but the youngest one actually liked her old Beats Pro (stolen) and MDR-7506 (forgotten on the plane) over the HD660S. She also has a pair of SR225e (modded with Magnum V8 drivers since one of the original drivers died) that she likes better than the HD660S but finds them uncomfortable with L-pads for long listening sessions so she just wanted something more comfortable.

As for the listening chain that my friend and his two older daughters have I think almost anyone would be happy to have since most of what they have is something that I'd and most people that I know would love to own which includes SR007Mk2, L700, SRM007, WES, WA22, Elise, Icon HP-8mk2, Liquid Carbon V1 and V2, MHDT Pagoda, Metrum Musette, V280, G109, EC ZDS, BH Crack, Hugo2, HA-501, UD-501, Eikon, Ether Flow, Atticus, HD800 and 800S, T1gen2, PS1000e, LCD-X, LCD-2.2, HD600, HD650, HD700, HE-560, HE500, HE-Xv2 and a few others that I can't remember.

@Mike F, its the tone of the HD650 over the HD660S that my friends two daughters prefer since to them its more like what a piano or violin sounds like live and un-amplified, but they usually prefer speaker setups since its more natural sounding to them.
 
Apr 5, 2019 at 5:34 PM Post #4,158 of 9,624
As a professional musician and a life long H-Fi and headphone enthusiast I have to respond to this.

There's no doubt that the expectations and tastes of Hi-Fi and headphone enthusiasts differ (at times not inconsiderably) from those of professional musicians and recording engineers. To list these would require much more time than I'm going to spend writing this post, and indeed it could be the subject of an entire thread, but one of the differences, as I perceive it, is that very often enthusiasts place great importance on fidelity (which can mean a whole raft of things to different people) whereas professionals are more interested in a natural balance of all aspects of the production, and especially in tonal accuracy. I have heard quite a few (and own at least one) headphone which is regarded without question as being 'better' than the HD650. Technically, and in very many ways, especially in terms of fidelity, the HD800 is vastly superior to the HD650, and yet very often it doesn't satisfy musically. The reason I believe is that the 650, whilst far from perfect, presents a better balance and most importantly, better tonal accuracy. FWIW the HD650's sound much more like my ATC SL100A monitors than my HD800's do.

There's a great irony in the fact that enthusiasts often spend thousands chasing that last little bit of fidelity that they think will take them closer to the original source, when in fact very often what they are hearing is almost nothing like what the recording engineer and musicians themselves heard.

Individual taste in headphones is just that - individual taste, but to suggest that professional musicians who play the instruments themselves, and in many cases have heard what they sound like on replays in a recording studio, don't know better than non musicians what acoustic instruments should sound like in a good transducer (whether a loudspeaker or headphone) is, frankly, hilarious. Piano is often said to be the hardest test for a transducer. Pianist's generally know what a piano sounds like! :wink:
This really is and excellent post an one of the best I have ever read on this subject.
 
Apr 6, 2019 at 8:52 AM Post #4,159 of 9,624
On an completely unrelated note, recently got myself the sennheiser hd660s. Currently enjoying them through an Aune T1 that is surprisingly still working after 7 long years, and man I'm thoroughly enjoying this combination. My only other headphone i bought was the SR325I and i feel with these two headphones, most music genres are easily covered. While i was considering buying between this and the 600s/650s, the answer was clear when i tried them on. So here I am reaping the benefits : D. Thanks to everyone in this thread who readily gave their advice/ input which affirmed my decision.
 
Apr 8, 2019 at 4:03 AM Post #4,160 of 9,624
@Mike F, its the tone of the HD650 over the HD660S that my friends two daughters prefer since to them its more like what a piano or violin sounds like live and un-amplified, but they usually prefer speaker setups since its more natural sounding to them.

Thanks, David. I knew exactly what you meant! :smile_phones::beerchug:

I also prefer speakers as a matter of fact. Headphones are just a fun alternative for me, but I know that for many here, and for any number of good reasons, headphones are more important!
 
Apr 9, 2019 at 10:17 AM Post #4,161 of 9,624
Been in possession of a gently used pair of 660s for a while now and have just spent a few days taking them in and listening to a bunch of music. They sound really nice on the Gilmore lite MK2, and while not as extended in the low end or as technically good as the Focal Clear's they are very musical and enjoying to listen too. Plus it is very light, and once the clamp is worked out quite comfortable. I previously owned the 650s and if I am remembering correctly I enjoy the 660s more.

One thing I have noticed though is that the 3.5 to 6.3 adapter is of very bad quality. I wish it were at least a screw on adapter. I continue to get right channel drop outs and have to wiggle the connector to bring it back. I do not experience these drop outs when running the headphones off off a phone so I am pretty convinced it is the adapter.

I recently ordered a cable from Amplifier Surgery...has anyone had any experience with these guys and if so, positive or negative. If only Senn. would provide the nice cables that Focal does with the Clears...could have been perfect.

Keith
 
Apr 9, 2019 at 11:09 AM Post #4,162 of 9,624
Been in possession of a gently used pair of 660s for a while now and have just spent a few days taking them in and listening to a bunch of music. They sound really nice on the Gilmore lite MK2, and while not as extended in the low end or as technically good as the Focal Clear's they are very musical and enjoying to listen too. Plus it is very light, and once the clamp is worked out quite comfortable. I previously owned the 650s and if I am remembering correctly I enjoy the 660s more.

One thing I have noticed though is that the 3.5 to 6.3 adapter is of very bad quality. I wish it were at least a screw on adapter. I continue to get right channel drop outs and have to wiggle the connector to bring it back. I do not experience these drop outs when running the headphones off off a phone so I am pretty convinced it is the adapter.

I recently ordered a cable from Amplifier Surgery...has anyone had any experience with these guys and if so, positive or negative. If only Senn. would provide the nice cables that Focal does with the Clears...could have been perfect.

Keith

I have an Amplifier Surgery cable for my LCD-2F and LCD-X. It is well-made with quality connectors and it has held up over about a year and a half, despite lots of switching. No channel drop-out, noise, or imbalance. They shipped it a bit faster than what has been average in my experience. It is a bit stiffer than I find ideal, and the combined stress-relief/connector parts are quite long, making the cable sort of hard to store in a case or on a stand. Less microphonics than average. I'd give it a B+ and I'd rather have a comparably priced version from Venus Audio or Periapt. The latter use full copper instead of silver-plated like Amplifier Surgery, FYI. I've never heard a difference, but some people do.
 
Apr 9, 2019 at 11:30 AM Post #4,163 of 9,624
I have an Amplifier Surgery cable for my LCD-2F and LCD-X. It is well-made with quality connectors and it has held up over about a year and a half, despite lots of switching. No channel drop-out, noise, or imbalance. They shipped it a bit faster than what has been average in my experience. It is a bit stiffer than I find ideal, and the combined stress-relief/connector parts are quite long, making the cable sort of hard to store in a case or on a stand. Less microphonics than average. I'd give it a B+ and I'd rather have a comparably priced version from Venus Audio or Periapt. The latter use full copper instead of silver-plated like Amplifier Surgery, FYI. I've never heard a difference, but some people do.


Thank you for the quick review. I am a little disappointed to hear that they are stiffer than maybe Periapt or Venus, but I do not think I will be storing it away, I have my headphones on hooks so that the cable just drapes below them. I will have to give Periapt a try next...maybe as a comparison to see if the silver plating makes much of a difference at this price point.

Best-
 
Apr 9, 2019 at 12:19 PM Post #4,164 of 9,624
Thank you for the quick review. I am a little disappointed to hear that they are stiffer than maybe Periapt or Venus, but I do not think I will be storing it away, I have my headphones on hooks so that the cable just drapes below them. I will have to give Periapt a try next...maybe as a comparison to see if the silver plating makes much of a difference at this price point.

Best-

For the price, the quality, speed of delivery, and service, Periapt really is my favorite. Venus audio cables are amazingly supple though, to the point that they tangle. They tangle! Gravity can literally knot that cable. But, they have some microphonics, some limitations in options for length, and slower delivery. Nothing major.

Here's a pic, BTW. You can see how long the stiff portion of the cable becomes with the XLR and strain-relief. You can also see that the wire retains some memory/stays bent near the mini-XLR end. What you won't see is the small red line on the silver part of the mini-XLR to indicate 'right.' So, a few minor annoyances keep the cable from greatness in my book, but still a good, reliable option.

20181019_165638.jpg
 
Apr 9, 2019 at 7:37 PM Post #4,165 of 9,624
Been in possession of a gently used pair of 660s for a while now and have just spent a few days taking them in and listening to a bunch of music. They sound really nice on the Gilmore lite MK2, and while not as extended in the low end or as technically good as the Focal Clear's they are very musical and enjoying to listen too. Plus it is very light, and once the clamp is worked out quite comfortable. I previously owned the 650s and if I am remembering correctly I enjoy the 660s more.

One thing I have noticed though is that the 3.5 to 6.3 adapter is of very bad quality. I wish it were at least a screw on adapter. I continue to get right channel drop outs and have to wiggle the connector to bring it back. I do not experience these drop outs when running the headphones off off a phone so I am pretty convinced it is the adapter.

I recently ordered a cable from Amplifier Surgery...has anyone had any experience with these guys and if so, positive or negative. If only Senn. would provide the nice cables that Focal does with the Clears...could have been perfect.

Keith

In a quick comparison how would you describe the clear and 660S?
 
Apr 9, 2019 at 7:56 PM Post #4,166 of 9,624
In a quick comparison how would you describe the clear and 660S?
The clears are technically better in many ways, with is not a surprise given it's price difference. They have better low end and more sub bass rumble, and also a smoother treble.

The 660s are lighter with a similar sound signature but with more treble edge and energy, this makes them a little more hot at times. The bass is punchy enough and the missing low end is only apparent when being directly compared to other cans.these disappear on my head and I don't worry about people borrowing them at work which is less stressful. For a little more than 250$ I think they were a great deal!
 
Apr 10, 2019 at 7:54 AM Post #4,167 of 9,624
Thank you for the quick review. I am a little disappointed to hear that they are stiffer than maybe Periapt or Venus, but I do not think I will be storing it away, I have my headphones on hooks so that the cable just drapes below them. I will have to give Periapt a try next...maybe as a comparison to see if the silver plating makes much of a difference at this price point.

Best-
You might want to check the Noir Hybrid from Forzaaudioworks. Medium expensive, but a real dream of a well made soft cable. No noise from the cable on your cloth and as unstubborn as can be.
 
Apr 10, 2019 at 8:25 AM Post #4,169 of 9,624
You might want to check the Noir Hybrid from Forzaaudioworks. Medium expensive, but a real dream of a well made soft cable. No noise from the cable on your cloth and as unstubborn as can be.

I'll second that, I have their (Forza) Claire Hybrid cable on my hd660S, zero microphonics :)

Time to cancel my other cable order and check out For a.

Thanks for the great recommendations!
 
Apr 10, 2019 at 11:38 AM Post #4,170 of 9,624
I'll second that, I have their (Forza) Claire Hybrid cable on my hd660S, zero microphonics :)

I'll second that too.
Noir Hybrid owner for HD800s.
Very soft despite the huge gauge and zero microphonics.
I will not comment though about the huge sound improvement in order not to start again a cable debate.
 

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