Thanks for the explanation and for helping. In the case of the old amplifier would I just use the headphone output located in front of it and nothing else?
At the moment I'm using HD599 and I want to go to HD6x0 line. On the part of the sound, I'm already satisfied with the treble levels of the 599, I would just like more general body in the sound and more bass, (My ears are more sensitive to high frequencies). I do not know if the hd660 is brighter than the 650, and with that in the general hearing would lose a bit of bass. I'm looking for a softer, warmer sound, a sound that sounds damped and round, like the old speakers of the 90s. That's why I got the 650's attention. If I went for the HD660s I do not know if I would buy the old amplifier since they are stating that it does not need as much power as the 650, would use something more portable.
Look no further the HD650 will satisfy your headphone requirements. If anything the substantially cheaper HE400i would sound more analog and organic for fuller bodied vocals and to my ears sounds better than the more expensive HD650.
The HD660 is "brighter" as it does sound cleaner with some added bass but still not substantially more than "neutral" bass.
I had a pair of Tannoy's that describes exactly what your talking about round and damped with muffled high's. The HD650 is very much like those 90's speakers you speak of The difference is the vocals will be singing directly into your ear canal with small intimate soundstage.
I'm sensitive to high's and the HD650 will definitely NOT aggravate your ears. I'd consider them dark and very small soundstage. The HD660 is truly a breath of fresh air with cleaner sound with some hint of the mash of blended music reproduction of the HD650 signature sound. Your style of music may vary how you analyze the performance of the 650 and 660.
I'd probably suggest buying a dedicated headphone amp that will be much simpler to use with no big concern of impedance matching.
Look no further the HD650 will satisfy your headphone requirements. If anything the substantially cheaper HE400i would sound more analog and organic for fuller bodied vocals and to my ears sounds better than the more expensive HD650.
The HD660 is "brighter" as it does sound cleaner with some added bass but still not substantially more than "neutral" bass.
I had a pair of Tannoy's that describes exactly what your talking about round and damped with muffled high's. The HD650 is very much like those 90's speakers you speak of The difference is the vocals will be singing directly into your ear canal with small intimate soundstage.
I'm sensitive to high's and the HD650 will definitely NOT aggravate your ears. I'd consider them dark and very small soundstage. The HD660 is truly a breath of fresh air with cleaner sound with some hint of the mash of blended music reproduction of the HD650 signature sound. Your style of music may vary how you analyze the performance of the 650 and 660.
I'd probably suggest buying a dedicated headphone amp that will be much simpler to use with no big concern of impedance matching.
Thank you for your help. after its definition, I liked it more than 650. The question of the amp is that I was expecting to buy one in the average of 150 to 200€, and I do not know if I would get a headphone amplifier with enough power for that price for the 650.
Thank you for your help. after its definition, I liked it more than 650. The question of the amp is that I was expecting to buy one in the average of 150 to 200€, and I do not know if I would get a headphone amplifier with enough power for that price for the 650.
May we just say that all three headphones (HD650, HE400i, HD660S) are worth considering and are a matter of personal taste, and all of them will benefit from good low impedance amplification, although in my personal experience with the HD6xx I find that it doesn’t need that much power, my DFR or O2 amps deliver enough power for my needs, but I agree that superior amplification may increase the sound quality with each of the three headphones.
Thanks for the explanation and for helping. In the case of the old amplifier would I just use the headphone output located in front of it and nothing else?.........
. I'm looking for a softer, warmer sound, a sound that sounds damped and round, like the old speakers of the 90s. T..........
Yep just the headphone output...as for "softer, warmer sound, a sound that sounds damped and round, like the old speakers of the 90s." The 90's IMHO was the worst, actually producing a lot of speakers with hot uncontrolled treble as many manufactures jumped on the band wagon with badly engineered metal dome tweeters (which when properly engineered sound excellent, think Celestion) and and exaggerated base for home theater. I'd say your description fits more in line with AR and Advent lines I had in the early to mid 70s and the 650s would definitely be the better choice or even better a used pair of HD580s, as I've yet to audition the 660s I still have to hold judgement but from what I've garnered so far looks like a definite face lift, sound wise, for what I consider IMHO a dated driver dating back more than 20 years.
We await his review with bated breath....if he likes them I may not...lol..
(not to get me wrong...I respect Tylls invaluable reviews and opinions we just have different preferences).... : )
Yep just the headphone output...as for "softer, warmer sound, a sound that sounds damped and round, like the old speakers of the 90s." The 90's IMHO was the worst, actually producing a lot of speakers with hot uncontrolled treble as many manufactures jumped on the band wagon with badly engineered metal dome tweeters (which when properly engineered sound excellent, think Celestion) and and exaggerated base for home theater. I'd say your description fits more in line with AR and Advent lines I had in the early to mid 70s and the 650s would definitely be the better choice or even better a used pair of HD580s, as I've yet to audition the 660s I still have to hold judgement but from what I've garnered so far looks like a definite face lift, sound wise, for what I consider IMHO a dated driver dating back more than 20 years.
We await his review with bated breath....if he likes them I may not...lol..
(not to get me wrong...I respect Tylls invaluable reviews and opinions we just have different preferences).... : )
Rob your actually being extremely realistic. i do find that I've never heard of many hifi stereo folks following frequency charts as an indication of musical bliss....or NOT.
Tyll personally owns different set of ears than everyone here on Headfi LOL!!!! I guess some members have similar preferences to his interpretation of sound so they can follow him.
You mentioned the headphones you prefer to be warm with a softer sound. If you listened to a set of Hd800 (s) for a long period of time or even the flavour of the month Focal Clear's it would very likely not meet those requirements you ask for.
Do you like higher resolution sound? You seek distinct separation of instruments and hyper detailed sounds? This is where the Hd650 did NOT excel in as it seems Senn blended everything lacking resolution but for chillout listening. The HD660 was like a slight breath of fresh air with cleaner sound but I did not find it worlds apart in HD650 character.
Do you listen to music at high levels of volume?? or moderate levels??
I still think you should consider buying from Amazon and buy an inexpensive pair of He400i. Different signature sound of the HD650 but it has this nice soundstage with a totally different presentation of vocals. Listening to Melody gardot "rain" the HE400i has this realism that sounds totally different in how the Hd650 outputs vocals. The price of the 400i is so cheap and when you look at the presentation of the box it comes in you'd be confused the amount you paid for. If you dont like the HP just return it with no questions asked from Amazon.
I do find that going from my previous Concero HD dac to Burson DA160, Burson Burr brown Virtuoso dac portion to spacetech labs tube dac the sound of the music is mind boggling different. Concero HD for orchestra/instrumentals the DAC was a freak detail music maker but vocals lacked meaty realism. The solid state dac from my Burson setup has a blend of analog sound but acdentuated details that the designers have put into the electronics.
My point?????? What some consider fantastic sound with the HD660 with certain amps/dacs describe a certain sound they like. Vocals from dac to dac is worlds apart while amplification can also change some character of sound.
Note decay from tubes have this certain harmonics that most average solid state dacs cannot match. The note decay on notes sound different and vocals sounds different. This is where I think I would prefer an Hd660 with tube setup over the HD650. The Tubes would give a more analog vinyl presentation without getting mudddy/veil already present in the HD650.
In blanket statement i would say a solid state setup will still have a warm presentation with an hd650. Indeed this is a blanket statement if the solid state dac is neutral like a Nad M51 solid state dac etc etc.
In the end it all comes down to auditioning headphones with your gear.
You may have misinterpreted my preferences, my references with Tyll were that I found the HD700s a refreshing approach for a headphone and while not perfect, a step in the right direction, while Tyll may have dismissed them entirely. Due to my personal endeavors in electro-acoustic and experimental music and recording in the 70s to the mid 90s my preference tend toward analytical but not too impersonal, headphones for me are more of a tool than something to tailor the sound to ones likes.
Sennheiser’s older 580s and the previous/current 600 series sort of straddle both worlds, being long time reference tools for many but too forgiving for some, myself included….the 800 and 700 were/are more entertaining, adding besides a change in tonal character enhanced sound staging and IMHO diverge from strictly being reference tools and as a speaker person something I can fully appreciate.
The 660s look to retain the classic 600 series presentation but with better improved drivers of which I fully appreciated within the HD700s, so maybe my hate love relation with my 580/600/650s will come to a nice conclusion…we’ll see.
Different sound signatures…lol… I’ve weaned myself away from such thoughts, where I was once continually swapping between a ½ dozen phones or more, … I’m now determined to keep my main selection to a minimum ….. Sennheiser wise my HD800S for most recordings, possibly 660s for casual chill outs without falling asleep and the ie800s for mobility.
You may have misinterpreted my preferences, my references with Tyll were that I found the HD700s a refreshing approach for a headphone and while not perfect, a step in the right direction, while Tyll may have dismissed them entirely. Due to my personal endeavors in electro-acoustic and experimental music and recording in the 70s to the mid 90s my preference tend toward analytical but not too impersonal, headphones for me are more of a tool than something to tailor the sound to ones likes.
Sennheiser’s older 580s and the previous/current 600 series sort of straddle both worlds, being long time reference tools for many but too forgiving for some, myself included….the 800 and 700 were/are more entertaining, adding besides a change in tonal character enhanced sound staging and IMHO diverge from strictly being reference tools and as a speaker person something I can fully appreciate.
The 660s look to retain the classic 600 series presentation but with better improved drivers of which I fully appreciated within the HD700s, so maybe my hate love relation with my 580/600/650s will come to a nice conclusion…we’ll see.
Different sound signatures…lol… I’ve weaned myself away from such thoughts, where I was once continually swapping between a ½ dozen phones or more, … I’m now determined to keep my main selection to a minimum ….. Sennheiser wise my HD800S for most recordings, possibly 660s for casual chill outs without falling asleep and the ie800s for mobility.
Sounds like a good plan. I try to do the same approach with my home system. Difference is I have both solid state dac and tube dac for different genre's as my sound character changer.
For my home stereo rig I just settled on some Totem Earth speakers but I do sometimes wish I had a pair of Harbeth for analog rich sound for my other genre's I listen too. I've just mounted some Kef R300 large bookshelves as a non critical chillout setup that is surprisingly good for the 1/5 of the price of my Totems.
The Hd660 shouldn't put you to sleep as they seem to have more energy in sound compared to the HD650.....but the 660 still has that collective mixed mash up of sound that is NOT analytical and isolated as the HD800s.
If you listened to some focal Clears they may meet your preference as an HD800s user. The difference is that the Clear headphone is ALOT less impersonal. I do feel more engagement in the Clear headphone over the drier sound of the HD800S. Clear has more satisfying bass that is rich. I'm not a bass head and I do like the Clears alot more just because of the more full bodied sound it produces over the HD800S.
The HD660 seems like its still extremely far off from the clarity of the HD700 or HD800. I think maybe the key is exposure time of the HD660 will be alot longer as it should not push you in the listening fatigue area. Even the HD800S can be over stimulating in the highs and cannot really be considered a chillout HP at all. Yes indeed the HD660 is more "refreshing" than the HD650 darker sound. But even with the added clarity the HD660 seems to have a somewhat darker signature retained from the older 650.
The HD660 may hit a sweet spot in less clarity in the mids/highs as the HD800 but still retains some chillout factors the HD800S can never ever have even with tubes.
.......
For my home stereo rig I just settled on some Totem Earth speakers but I do sometimes wish I had a pair of Harbeth for analog rich sound for my other genre's I listen too. ........
.......The HD660 seems like its still extremely far off from the clarity of the HD700 or HD800. ...........
Ideally I'd like a pair of phones to replicate my pair Dynaudio Special 25s, but then I wouldn't need the speakers and we wouldn't want that would we?..lol...but hopefully the 660s aren't too far removed as I actually found the 700s retaining some family resemblance to the Sennheiser sound...as many have remarked, myself included, they did sort of sit somewhere between the 650s and 800s.... and my whole purposing in considering the 660s as I've mentioned previously are for the occasions where the recording did not require nor sound correct with the staging technicalities offered by the 800/Ss.
Has anyone seen such an adapter? 660 S already comes with balanced cables although 4.4mm. It would be a waste to get aftermarket XLR. I wonder if Sennheiser actually intended to target portable DAP users or just wanted save a few pennies by doing 4.4mm.
Having gone through a number of vintage receivers it can be hit or miss when buying used. Even if they are good at the start there is no guarantee how much life one will get out of it since it's likely to be 20-30+ years old. Luckily, I have a place nearby that can repair them. For me, buying a vintage receiver again would be one of just pure fun and not spending say more than $100-200 unless it was recently professionally checked out by seller. For my primary headphone amp I would look to something that is going to give you many years of work and then think of vintage receiver as kind of a side mission. That's my feel for budget-fi vintage receiver. I know there are a lot of more expensive vintage receivers that are top notch for headphones and speakers. Just requires really being careful when purchasing vintage.
I'm using the iDSD BL and it is not overly analytical, more leaning to full body sound. There is an overall warmth to its internal amp. I got mine new for $375 and at that price it is a solid winner among many options out there.
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The difference is the vocals will be singing directly into your ear canal with small intimate soundstage.
