[indigogo]

Ok but what cable is this ? From what company any link?
Like u said listening 660s after NDH 30 u feel like u are behind a veil , this is how some people that dont like HD6 line describe it so yes u are correct . Its normal for u to think that .
U should compare NDH 30 with lower end HD560s headphone that share a lot more common things. And i am sure u will love more light more reliable and less expensive headphone that NDH 30 is based of. I know because i got the shame feeling like u did . But again is something different .
HD 6 line is all about natural sound smooth sound realistic timbre that others dont have , and about imaging and speed HD660s has not opponent under 1.000 euros that are not Planar.
Again NDH 30 aka more expensive heavier 560s are amazing for people that like this signature its nothing wrong with that , but technically in my opinion are not even close to HD6 line . U can try to eq if u like the HD6 series will follow easy the signature of NDH30 in both ends.
What u said about the selected signature of HD6 line ( vocals and almost perfect mids ) that is suitable for minimum genres.... Sory u are Very wrong and thats a fact most music and hear listening is on midrange band.
And i am not even talking about most people listening music with vocals .
So ok i agree 560s NDH 30 sound more flat and have that clear sense but to some people what u say clear to them is grainy or bright ... For u is something else and HD6 are veiled . But the fact is that even if they sound veil to u the great resolution,speed,imaging, separation, openess vocals mids are there on HD660s even if u dont like this signature.

I can agree with a lot of what you've written, but I'm pretty sure from what I hear that the NDH 30 is clearly a much higher level than the HD660s. And it's definitely not at all close to the 560. Just compare it in sound directly to one another. And I'm sure you'll hear the difference.
Where I work, there are a lot of people around who work with sound and they each have almost ten or more headphones of different price ranges, from 100 to 3000. I can literally walk out the door and pick up different headphones from them and compare it for hours. I've done this several times and I'm already tired. It makes no sense. My colleagues who work professionally with sound have already chosen the NDH 30, even sacrificing expensive planars. That's because the NDH 30 is pure and true natural sound with no signature. Such a sound does not get bored in work, not in listening to music. In my example, after two months of listening to them, I want to listen even more. This has not happened with other headphones.
HD660 s bored me in music in just a few days.
Just like planar models. I just hear that the sound is not right and I get bored listening to it.

Yes, sometimes I literally want to listen to electrostatics or expensive planars again, I go and take them from my office neighbors. They usually just lie on the shelf and are not used in their work
I listen and sort of like a wow effect, but then, after a few days of working and comparing not only music but also the sound for mixing recorded from expensive microphones, I get bored again.
I love natural and correct sound, because I make this sound and mixes myself and I'm used to recording and knowing from the first source what sounds right and what doesn't.

By the way, while writing this, I remembered what a comparison came to me and my colleagues in sound between 660s and NDH 30!
660s seems to be compressed quite strongly in sound literally throughout the entire frequency range compared to NDH 30
I don't know why, I've compared several 660s and they all feel like that.
I'm not talking about the 560 and 600 series .. It's even worse there

And I would also like to add - I have not heard such a surround and wide stereo sound with such a proper separation and location as in the NDH 30 - I have not heard in any other headphones, even very expensive ones, some were close, but not as clear and correct as the NDH 30

 

[indigogo]

I'm sure that the 660 is still a good headphone, but I'm also sure that this sound tuning and design in them is made artificially and does not correspond to reality.
It is clearly audible when listening
And just as frustrating is the compressed scene and not very good stereo separation.

 

[Rob80b]

Not familiar with the NDH-30, they appear to be fairly recent, but have used Neumann tape decks and microphones back in the 70 and 80s so have always admired their attention to quality, and much like AKG and Sennheiser all are grounded in professional audio reproduction for more than 1/2 a century.
Quick search interestingly brought up this
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/neumann-ndh-30.963439/
"Neumann has said that their engineers worked independently from their parent company (Sennheiser) but based the NDH 20 on the HD650. I hope the NDH 30 improves on the NDH 20 by taking advantage of the potential in the open back design."
Wouldn't say IMHO that the HD660S are veiled in anyway but have on many occasion noted that about the HD600/650s, maybe not so much veiled but lacking in appropriate dynamics with regards to my own personal preferences.
Curious if you may have compared the Neumann againt my other favourite transducer the AKG K812/872s, which I find are a much clearer and precise window into to the recording over my Senns, including the HD800S.

 

[Opalius]

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...ayed/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

HD660 Vs NDH30

That 3-4k peak is not something for me... That's just to much ear-gain go be neutral. Also the bass boost is more of a bump then anything - It's fine if ye like it.

Based on the measurements, the NDH30 is not a neutral headphone. By neutral I mean a headphone that is not colored.

It cannot be recorded on it self, and retain it's sound signature, like the HD650 and HD600.

 

[Rob80b]

I was ready to buy Elegia , i also use hd660s most of the time. I get that openess imaging space is better on open backs but other than that how do.they sound compared to 660.

The Focal Elegia are indeed an odd number, took a few days to open up where as the blob in the head expanded with more depth, width and separation, tonality is very good and reminded me of the HD650s but the Focal unlike the 600/650 were able to maintain my attention Overall they are an easy phone, never offensive and a very pleasant listen, again much like the HD650s, good clarity but the closed back design may not be to everyone's liking, at first sounding a bit, relatively speaking, claustrophobic but I soon got accustomed to it and did appreciate the isolation from surrounding interference.
Compared to the HD660S they are overall completely different phone but I can appreciate and do like their different personalities, also rememer with a closed back phone proper seating and sealing is essential for proper frequency response, glasses quite often being problematic.
For a closed phone I do prefer my AKG K872s which actually sound more open than many opened packed phones, even the HD660S.

 

[indigogo]

Not familiar with the NDH-30, they appear to be fairly recent, but have used Neumann tape decks and microphones back in the 70 and 80s so have always admired their attention to quality, and much like AKG and Sennheiser all are grounded in professional audio reproduction for more than 1/2 a century.
Quick search interestingly brought up this
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/neumann-ndh-30.963439/
"Neumann has said that their engineers worked independently from their parent company (Sennheiser) but based the NDH 20 on the HD650. I hope the NDH 30 improves on the NDH 20 by taking advantage of the potential in the open back design."
Wouldn't say IMHO that the HD660S are veiled in anyway but have on many occasion noted that about the HD600/650s, maybe not so much veiled but lacking in appropriate dynamics with regards to my own personal preferences.
Curious if you may have compared the Neumann againt my other favourite transducer the AKG K812/872s, which I find are a much clearer and precise window into to the recording over my Senns, including the HD800S.

Some of my colleagues have both. In the past, there was a fluent audition without comparison. But in my memory, this is the best that can be for working and listening to music as it is generally done until today.
This can not even be compared with expensive planars or electrostats. AKG K812/872s crush them to dust, I think...
But I think that the NDH-30 is almost very close, despite the modest price three times lower And most importantly, I'm sure that the NDH-30 is much more convenient to use, as it has large ear cushions and is incredibly comfortable on the head.
Maybe later I'll take it and compare it, but for now I'm taking a break from comparisons

By the way, the NDH-20 doesn't sound right for me at all. It's probably just the first Neumann failed experiment

 

[indigogo]

https://www.reddit.com/r/headphones...ayed/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share

HD660 Vs NDH30

That 3-4k peak is not something for me... That's just to much ear-gain go be neutral. Also the bass boost is more of a bump then anything - It's fine if ye like it.

Based on the measurements, the NDH30 is not a neutral headphone. By neutral I mean a headphone that is not colored.

It cannot be recorded on it self, and retain it's sound signature, like the HD650 and HD600.

These graphs are just emptiness and meaningless garbage!!!
They don't talk about what you hear at all. You can forget about it forever and don't look at this garbage anymore

 

[indigogo]

I just remembered that a friend previously compared AKG K872 and Adam Pro SP-5
But I don't remember what he said about this comparison.
I can only say that before he worked with sound in AKG K872 and now when I went to him he was sitting in Adam Pro SP-5
Maybe just a coincidence.. I have an Adam Pro SP-5 and it's the clearest and widest sound of all. But this only applies to work. I have them like sound microscopes
Listen to music with these headphones - you need to have very pumped, strong and hardened ears and be a psychologically strong guy But seriously, the sound is in its original form, with maximum resolution, detailing over the frequency range. Soundstage and stereo wider than open 660s

 

[Rob80b]

These graphs are just emptiness and meaningless garbage!!!
They don't talk about what you hear at all. You can forget about it forever and don't look at this garbage anymore

Have to agree somewhat, unlike measuring a stereo in open space headphone graphs can only give us IMHO a vague idea as to the Psychoacoustics of the individual listener. The difficulty in designing a flat sounding headphone is that the "measured" frequencies should never be flat, and why the Harmon curve is touted profusely. But as there are just too many variables with each pair of human ears, graphs, even similar graphs produced by different phones, will never tell us how a pair of close proximity drivers will interact within the maze of the ear canal and workings of the vibrations of the inner ear. Also the graphs cannot not readily discern the perceived sound produced by different materials and designs, Mylar vs metal, aluminium vs magnesium...etc, etc. One's best refrence in choising a headphone without audition is to read as many reviews as possible and find a reviewer who has similar or dissimilar tastes as to your own.
In the end they are all compromises.

 

[Opalius]

Listen, - we all what and need recognition when something is dear to us...

Storytime ...
My first real headphone was the HD650, and I was kinda green when it comes to headphones and all. I spent alot of time reading, watching youtube, everything really to make a informed purchase.

When I finally had the headphone, and gods was I happy, a friend of mine came by, listen to them, and in short said they were veiled and sounded crappy.

It's not that he knew alot about headphones, it's just that he planted a seed that really made me unhappy with what I had...

So,.. I got the DT990, followed by a Grado, followed by DT1990... And so on...

If you guys just knew,.. how much time and money I have spent to learn to trust me, my ears, my taste...

It all finally stopped, when I said F it... I have the cash, I can spend 5000k, then I will be happy, so... So over 3 months , I visited every headphone store from bloody Sweden, Germany, Poland to Austria...

I can honestly say I have tried almost everything, from Stax to Focals...

And what did I end up with, a Audeze LCD2-CB 2021 revision. And yes - I do think they are better then much more expensive headphones -

So Yeah, turns out in short i simply liked them the best.
And It's not like it is a popular headphone. But it has some features, that just brings a smile to my face, like the separation, detail, soundstage. And that's what's important.

There is no perfect headphone, it is always a compromise. Want better soundstage, then you need more highs and a dip at 3k. What more bass, then push back the Mids... And so on..

The HD6XX line is amazing, and a very balanced headphone. In alot of aspects, it is better then headphones that are +1000k
- but it is not for everyone.

So what is the moral? Ask your self what you think is best? and just start listening. Don't let your day be ruined, because someone just does not have the same tast as you have.

Just for kicks, here is the frequency response of my HD650 and LCD2-CB (and a LCD2c I had loaned form a store)

 

[Rob80b]

And what did I end up with, a Audeze LCD2-CB 2021 revision.

I may need to revisit Audeze one day, had the original LCD-2 non Fazor and while I loved the wall of sound and base it appeared the top end was completely missing, rolling off way too prematurely.

 

[indigogo]

Listen, - we all what and need recognition when something is dear to us...

Storytime ...
My first real headphone was the HD650, and I was kinda green when it comes to headphones and all. I spent alot of time reading, watching youtube, everything really to make a informed purchase.

When I finally had the headphone, and gods was I happy, a friend of mine came by, listen to them, and in short said they were veiled and sounded crappy.

It's not that he knew alot about headphones, it's just that he planted a seed that really made me unhappy with what I had...

So,.. I got the DT990, followed by a Grado, followed by DT1990... And so on...

If you guys just knew,.. how much time and money I have spent to learn to trust me, my ears, my taste...

It all finally stopped, when I said F it... I have the cash, I can spend 5000k, then I will be happy, so... So over 3 months , I visited every headphone store from bloody Sweden, Germany, Poland to Austria...

I can honestly say I have tried almost everything, from Stax to Focals...

And what did I end up with, a Audeze LCD2-CB 2021 revision. And yes - I do think they are better then much more expensive headphones -

So Yeah, turns out in short i simply liked them the best.
And It's not like it is a popular headphone. But it has some features, that just brings a smile to my face, like the separation, detail, soundstage. And that's what's important.

There is no perfect headphone, it is always a compromise. Want better soundstage, then you need more highs and a dip at 3k. What more bass, then push back the Mids... And so on..

The HD6XX line is amazing, and a very balanced headphone. In alot of aspects, it is better then headphones that are +1000k
- but it is not for everyone.

So what is the moral? Ask your self what you think is best? and just start listening. Don't let your day be ruined, because someone just does not have the same tast as you have.

Just for kicks, here is the frequency response of my HD650 and LCD2-CB (and a LCD2c I had loaned form a store)

The choice of headphones is always difficult and a little unnerving. Especially when you consider the fact that the ears of any person in the morning can like one thing, another in the afternoon and a third in the evening

I recently listened to Audeze LCD-2 Rosewood (2022) latest revision, new ear pads, pins, new headband.
I liked it very much!

 

[KPzypher]

So what is the moral? Ask your self what you think is best? and just start listening. Don't let your day be ruined, because someone just does not have the same tast as you have.

I give a rats butt about what others think about the gear I own. I don't understand people that get overly defensive when others talk down or dislike the gear you own. I am not the owner nor the person that designed and engineered the HP etc., so who cares? I have no problem calling the gear I purchase sucks! The truth is someone out there is going to love what I hate. If I like it, I keep it. If I don't, I sell it or return it. Simple as that.

 

[jonathan c]

Listen, - we all what and need recognition when something is dear to us...

Storytime ...
My first real headphone was the HD650, and I was kinda green when it comes to headphones and all. I spent alot of time reading, watching youtube, everything really to make a informed purchase.

When I finally had the headphone, and gods was I happy, a friend of mine came by, listen to them, and in short said they were veiled and sounded crappy.

It's not that he knew alot about headphones, it's just that he planted a seed that really made me unhappy with what I had...

So,.. I got the DT990, followed by a Grado, followed by DT1990... And so on...

If you guys just knew,.. how much time and money I have spent to learn to trust me, my ears, my taste...

It all finally stopped, when I said F it... I have the cash, I can spend 5000k, then I will be happy, so... So over 3 months , I visited every headphone store from bloody Sweden, Germany, Poland to Austria...

I can honestly say I have tried almost everything, from Stax to Focals...

And what did I end up with, a Audeze LCD2-CB 2021 revision. And yes - I do think they are better then much more expensive headphones -

So Yeah, turns out in short i simply liked them the best.
And It's not like it is a popular headphone. But it has some features, that just brings a smile to my face, like the separation, detail, soundstage. And that's what's important.

There is no perfect headphone, it is always a compromise. Want better soundstage, then you need more highs and a dip at 3k. What more bass, then push back the Mids... And so on..

The HD6XX line is amazing, and a very balanced headphone. In alot of aspects, it is better then headphones that are +1000k
- but it is not for everyone.

So what is the moral? Ask your self what you think is best? and just start listening. Don't let your day be ruined, because someone just does not have the same tast as you have.

Just for kicks, here is the frequency response of my HD650 and LCD2-CB (and a LCD2c I had loaned form a store)

on the narration! As you learned: don’t let anyone pull the wool over your eyes ears .

 

[KPzypher]

The choice of headphones is always difficult and a little unnerving. Especially when you consider the fact that the ears of any person in the morning can like one thing, another in the afternoon and a third in the evening

This is part of the reason why I try not to buy uber expensive gear anymore. I hate the feeling of spending 3K on a HP and realizing they sometimes sound awesome and sometimes sound lackluster depending on my mood and physical/mental state. I'm not Jeff Bezos, so not worth it for me. Unfortunately, i still periodically relent and buy expensive stuff on impulse.

Tis is head-fi life...

Anyways, 660s is an awesome HP in my book.
At its reasonable asking price, I have no problem being dissapointed every now and then . And the plus side is, I love it most of the time.