[Rob80b]

The biggest rewarding factor with my preferences is that the 660 for me adds more distinct air and definition between notes (instruments), unraveling the musical complexities and allowing me to hear further into to mix, be it edm, classical, jazz, pop...etc...for a phone to work for my preferences the genre should not be a deciding factor.
The HD800S also do this but their more expansive sound stage sometimes is detrimental and a bit over the top, the 660S pull things in a bit more while maintaining the same clarity, depth and layering... didn't get that with the 600/650 and even less with the 58X....always felt something was missing.
Again all personal preferences but all 4 are "relatively" fine phones. : )

 

[ics1974]

The biggest rewarding factor with my preferences is that the 660 for me adds more distinct air and definition between notes (instruments), unraveling the musical complexities and allowing me to hear further into to mix, be it edm, classical, jazz, pop...etc...for a phone to work for my preferences the genre should not be a deciding factor.
The HD800S also do this but their more expansive sound stage sometimes is detrimental and a bit over the top, the 660S pull things in a bit more while maintaining the same clarity, depth and layering... didn't get that with the 600/650 and even less with the 58X....always felt something was missing.
Again all personal preferences but all 4 are "relatively" fine phones. : )

This is exactly why I love the 660s. How does the 800S compare in tone? I keep hearing it sounds thin and bright. Too bright for some

 

[Rob80b]

.......... I happen to prefer the HD58X over the 660 because the warmth in the basement much better masks what effectively is a peak in the treble..........

Definitely a valid point..with my senior's ears I still hear clearly up to 10k but the measured 5K has never been a problem, same for the socalled 7K on the HD700s...probably has more to de with the shape of ones ear and what frequencies are diminished or amplified on their way to the ear drum. How one perceives sound waves and the brains interpretation of them after they are turned into electrical signals is probably the deciding factor. Who knows, maybe for some s shrill sounding phone achieves the same final results as some who has preferences for a warmer sounding phone.????
My favorite phone for warmth in the basement was probably the LCD-2, loved that wall of sound but the upper octaves were completely lost on me. : (

 

[Ichos]

This is exactly why I love the 660s. How does the 800S compare in tone? I keep hearing it sounds thin and bright. Too bright for some

Timbre and tonality are better for the 660S.

 

[Rob80b]

This is exactly why I love the 660s. How does the 800S compare in tone? I keep hearing it sounds thin and bright. Too bright for some

See my previous post...but the 660S IMHO is an ideal phone for those who wish to dial back the sound-staging of the 800 while keeping most of it's sound signature.
Funny though, with my first pair of 660s I thought they would not get any ear play with my 800S around so off they went... held onto the HD6XX though, but should have known better having previously owned 3 pairs of 650s and the 6XX got ousted by the HD58X, which then hung around until recently..... : )

 

[Rob80b]

Timbre and tonality are better for the 660S.

For me, I find the timbre and tonality very similar but the more intimate presentation of the 660s does add more richness and probably preferred by most.
Interestingly though, for those same reasons I have friends who cannot tolerate any kind of headphone experience. : (

...and just to add ....with regards to headphones... the HD800 would most likely be appreciated more to, not all, but many of those who prefer or like to listen to music over speakers, therefore having the music out in front and away, rather than the enclosed headphone experience with the more often than not....blob in the head.... which they find too claustrophobic and in ones face.

 

[Happytalk]

Sennheiser’s Twitter account seems to have been hacked. https://twitter.com/sennheiserusa/status/1368270296923348994?s=21

 

[rafaelo]

The HD58X does not have ‘inferior’ drivers. What it does have is a cheaper production line which allows Sennie and Drop to lower the price. That’s about it.
The drivers in the 660 and 58X are more similar than not. Take a look at the measurements done for both. They’re from the same family ie low distortion and comes with the same frequency response behaviour with the same squiggles.
The real difference? Tuning. The HD58X is warmer and has way better bass extension. The HD660 seems more detailed simply because it is more linearly tuned with less warmth.
These two new headphones from Sennheiser come with clearly superior drivers...but with poorer tunings..imho. The reason why the old 600/650 seem more detailed are NOT because of ‘superior drivers’ but because they’re tuned to be more neutral aka the place where most music unfolds, the midrange, is better represented, which in effect makes them sound more detailed. The drivers though come with higher distortion numbers which is easily heard in the bass.

Your post sounds like music to my ears because I do not want to buy right now the 660s (and since I have both 58x and 6xx) but do these models have the exact same size for the drivers???

So far I have seen claims in both ways. If they have the same size drivers then can be more similar than not but if the 58x are bit smaller then, at least for me, they belong clearly to the 5 series family I am afraid.

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

Look..when you have two headphones that both share the same specs: damping factor as well as sensitivity...and you then see frequency responses of the two side by side and realise how incredibly similar they behave...well it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that the drivers are remarkably similar.
If the drivers in the HD58X were smaller then I’m fairly certain that it wouldn’t have the great bass delivery and extension...which is basic physics. If anything they should be bigger
People have continuously been trying to kick this cheapskate Sennie down to the 5 series for a long time now. I suspect they have a score to settle in that they probably are justifying why they “upgraded” to the 660 in the first place.
It’s much nicer to “know” that the most expensive headphone indeed is better in all areas...instead of merely stating that you dig the different tuning/presentation of the pricier big brother.

 

[rafaelo]

Look..when you have two headphones that both share the same specs: damping factor as well as sensitivity...and you then see frequency responses of the two side by side and realise how incredibly similar they behave...well it doesn’t take a genius to figure out that the drivers are remarkably similar.
If the drivers in the HD58X were smaller then I’m fairly certain that it wouldn’t have the great bass delivery and extension...which is basic physics. If anything they should be bigger
People have continuously been trying to kick this cheapskate Sennie down to the 5 series for a long time now. I suspect they have a score to settle in that they probably are justifying why they “upgraded” to the 660 in the first place.
It’s much nicer to “know” that the most expensive headphone indeed is better in all areas...instead of merely stating that you dig the different tuning/presentation of the pricier big brother.

I do not want to compare headphones with FR and diagrams I want to compare them by hearing. And although the 58X and 6XX are not worlds apart in FR the 58X seems clearly to me that is different generation driver, better speed and decay and can bridge some differences in technicalities with a planar. So even if they still have similar FR the two of them, the 660s driver can still have more detail, resolution and technicalities.

Regarding the bass I buying and searching some cheap chifi iems at the moment and many times I have seen smaller drivers have more bass than bigger ones and I have some speakers that the same is true. Also quality of bass is not the same with quantity of bass.

For me I have a simple logic. They would not develop a same size driver with the 660s series (and I am not sure anymore if 660s had the same size with 6xx) from scratch for a drop series since it does not make any economic sense. They will modify an existing 6 or 5 size series and that's it. So all of your theory that you esplained above makes absolutely sense if they have modified a 6 size/series driver. And I am really hoping and wishing you are true and others are wrong.

Drop said they have the same size but as they quote two numbers such 36/38 Vs 38/40 I am not sure if they are both 38/40 or took 38 as the common number to say they are equal size drivers. I would like to know for sure.

And finally, for the right price for me at the right time, I would buy the 660s even if it sounded the same with 58x only because of how beautiful it looks. It deserves a reasonable price premium only for that.

 

[Kammerat Rebekka]

I certainly understand where you’re coming from. There’s been so much confusion regarding these headphones that most people in the hobby that just want to kick back and try out new headphones and be oblivious to FR and measurements..well have an increasingly harder time deciphering what’s what. Mostly because they give a damn about FR and measurements so as they have no way of finding out for themselves outside of having to buy them all and compare side-by-side.
The truth is, like has been mentioned countless of times in both this thread as well as the other big Sennie threads, the headphone you personally prefer between the 600, 650, 58X and the 660 is entirely dependant on your preferences and whether or not you like warmth, light, neutrality or more of an exciting signature.
It’s not really a competition involving technical chops..it has everything to do with you as an individual with a particular set of tastebuds.

 

[JL Pettimore]

It's approaching 3am where I am and I'm up listening to an album from my early twenties (I'm 47, feel like I'm 80) with these Sennheiser 660S headphones that have pleased me so much.

The album is 88 Elmira Street by Danny Gatton and it's on Amazon Music HD, if you care to look it up. I was turned on to some free EQ software (PEACE) elsewhere on this forum so I'm doing some A and B with different settings. Some Wild Turkey 101 might be involved but yeah I love it. I love the detail and bass I am hearing with some suggested settings I got through this place. What I have heard so far is a nice tweak of the baseline settings.

This album is Danny's most commercial and most kick back offering. It's a good entry point for those interested in a true master of the Telecaster. Well worth putting it in your playlist if you like virtuoso guitar players. I still remember walking into the grocery store and looking at the cover of the guitar mags and being shocked at finding out (we didn't have the internet back then) that he had committed suicide.

After reading about that, I wrote a letter (no email back then) to his fan club expressing my condolences and actually got a handwritten letter back from his mother, Norma Rae Gatton. She said their family suspected Danny was suffering stroke symptoms and was unable to play guitar like he was used to and it was too much for him to take.

I hope all of you 660 enthusiasts are having a good night / morning, I sure as hell am. The Sundara is supposed to be here tomorrow... or later today I guess so I am looking forward to seeing how these two headphones compare.

 

[Rob80b]

Your post sounds like music to my ears because I do not want to buy right now the 660s (and since I have both 58x and 6xx) but do these models have the exact same size for the drivers???

So far I have seen claims in both ways. If they have the same size drivers then can be more similar than not but if the 58x are bit smaller then, at least for me, they belong clearly to the 5 series family I am afraid.

Here are my 2 cents worth and sorry if I'm really just going over old ground.

AFAIK they all have a 38mm sized driver and as Kammerat Rebekka mentions, it almost, or does come down to personal preferences as they are all very good phones.
Although we may disagree on the 58X's driver, but I'm still quite certain it's a tweaked 500 series driver. I never kept up over the last few years so I may be talking through my hat, but I was /am an avid 58X supporter.
Jul 11, 2018
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/mas...iew-measurements.867972/page-89#post-14353503
Sadly back then I hadn't kept my 660S at the time for a direct comparison, but my observations remain the same and now that I have the new 660 and 58x side by side I can substantiate my initial impressions.


This is the older 650 580 driver (believe the discrpition is incorrect) with the copper ring but much better shows the contrast.


HD58X


HD660


HD650 top, 660 bottom

Overall the 600 series drivers and and baffle most likely have higher quality and machined parts, more attention given to quality control and driver matching. The 660 driver/baffle, ported to be the 700 driver, has obviously been given a make over.
Depending on ones ancillary equipment the additional costs for a 660 may be unwarranted, I'm running mine off a Bryston BHA-1 and sources are a Bryston BCD-1 and a Cambridge Audio CXN V2 and I'm easily able to hear the qualitative differences, placing the 58X at mid-fi. The 660, for me, really do have that little bit extra justifying their higher entry.

 

[Rob80b]

Slightly OT...but one of my contemporaries in modern music composition...

Pauline Oliveros on "The difference between hearing and listening" RIP. ​

 

[rafaelo]

they all have a 38mm sized driver

Do you mean that the 5 series also have 38 drivers ?

I thought 560s has 36/38, the 6xx 38/40 the focal elex 40mm and the 660s 38/40 same like the focal taking 40 to be the basis for comparison. Is so confusing when they quote two numbers I do not know for what we really are talking here.


In any case, Thanks so much for your lengthy and useful post. I completely agree, I found 6xx on other level only when I was doing reviews on complicated sources I notice that the 6xx seemed to sound like having a bigger driver being a category above. Directly out of my phone I prefer 58x hands down.

I have a hate/love relationship with my HD58X because it sounded completely unassuming paired with my es100 and I really do not know why because I used to like my es100. I believed then that it clearly belonged to the 500 series. Them I use it with my xcan and it scaled up considerably so now I am not so sure anymore. Obviously, only by looking this amazing Spyder on top of the 660s driver it seems to be from another league not only with respect to 58x but the 6xx so yes I believe you.