[Deftone]

What kind of AMP/DAC are people using that can hear the HD660S grainy sound? Poorly recorded music is the only thing that comes to my mind when "grainy" and "HD660S" is combined. Then again HD660S is not the most unforgiving headphone that I have. I'm thoroughly baffled.

Im using 3 different amps and i cant find grain, my favourite with 660 is arcam rhead. I can see it putting my 650 in to storage for a while.

 

[Dobrescu George]

Im really not hearing any grain at all guys im swapping back and fourth after a songs i know very well.

By grain are we on the same track? grain to me is a roughness or grittiness to the texture of treble thats not part of the recording, its still very smooth just like 650 but im just hearing increased resolution and a tad more sparkle.

The grain would have been part of the recording, just some headphones show it more, while others show it less.

Quick good example: IE800 has no grain, it simply will not show grain regardless how a record was recorded, they can be a tad splashy in the treble, but they will absolutely never be grainy. Ie80, on the other hand, can be grainy, especially with certain sources, or if you bump the treble (as it requires a bit)

I do not think HD660S is grainy, I do think they have more treble texture than HD650. Maybe about the same as HD600 (I only have HD660S readily available, only can test the HD600 and HD650 AVstore has in their showroom, both of which have very varying degrees of wear)

Another thing i want to point out is im noticing the 660 have an effortless flow to the sound that ive only heard in their higher end HD800 and IE800.

Totally agreed with this!

I think its only too smooth if you use it as your only headphone for everything, the bass distortion and smooth treble can give an extremely seductive experience at the right times.

Agreed actually, HD650 is amazing for relaxing, especially with magically sounding music, like really musical metal, like CHON, Animals as Leaders, Poliphia, Plini, etc.

They are a bit too smooth for death metal, or thrash, or for certain electronic tracks

It really doesnt imo, 58X has much more bass than any 600 series headphone, more one note type slower bass and worse treble quality. 660s bass is tighter, faster, more detailed and the treble is higher quality as well.

I agree, I think 58X sound quite different from HD600 or HD660S, and like you said, slower bass, much more bass, less treble, on 58X

 

[MrPappy]

Yes they are both cash cows and reference headphones plus all three share most parts, so the variety comes in cheap.

Yes and the fact that they both have a unique sound signature that people love to this day. A third signature in the 600 line is welcome but should only serve to compliment the other two simply because no one person hears the same thing.

 

[Mike F]

A third signature in the 600 line is welcome but should only serve to compliment the other two simply because no one person hears the same thing.

This has been said before many times on this thread in different ways, but I think that this is perhaps the most succinct response to the title of this thread to date.

 

[Mike F]

Another thing i want to point out is im noticing the 660 have an effortless flow to the sound that ive only heard in their higher end HD800 and IE800.

This is an interesting comment. I have the HD600 HD650 and HD800. Of the 6 series I prefer the 650 as I find it smoother but at the same time more resolving (detailed) than the 600. The HD800 is a totally different experience. The HD800 is in many well documented ways far superior to the HD650, but for me the 650 still sounds more natural (doesn't have an almost supernatural soundstage or boosted treble, for example) and so even though it is ultimately less resolving it still sounds more correct (natural) to me.

What's your impression of the HD650 HD660S and HD800 in terms of naturalness? I know that's a hugely subjective word, but hopefully from the above you have an idea of what I mean. Your description of the 660S as having 'an effortless flow to the sound' sounds like a description of naturalness to me. BTW I'm not confusing natural with neutral (which can sound pretty horrible at times......).

 

[MrPappy]

This has been said before many times on this thread in different ways, but I think that this is perhaps the most succinct response to the title of this thread to date.

I appreciate your compliment thanks.

 

[tafens]

It really doesnt imo, 58X has much more bass than any 600 series headphone, more one note type slower bass and worse treble quality. 660s bass is tighter, faster, more detailed and the treble is higher quality as well.

Thanks, that makes the HD660S a lot more appealing! What about soundstage? The HD58X to me is decently wide, but lacks room and height compared to the HD6XX. How is the HD660S in this regard as compared to the HD58X?

 

[pietcux]

The HD660S to me is a headphone which has only one flaw, sometimes it would be great if it was closed instead of open. To me it still is the most perfect headphone flawless sound, endless comfort can be driven by any source I want to use.
I am listening to the new Mumford and Sons "Delta" album right now. There is the perfect amount of bass, super fast and controlled, the voices cannot be done better and so are all the micro details in the background including the cymbals and other percussion stuff.
Visceral bass from this open headphone, perfect not bleeding anywhere. All is there, very well balanced, nothing rules above other parts of the sound picture. This is running balanced XLR from the fabulous Sennheiser HDVA 600 amp.
I prefer the HD660S over the HD800SD comfort wise at any time.

 

[Mike F]

pietcux. Happy New Year to you! Forgive me if you have told me this before, but do you have the HD800 (or have you had the chance to compare them with the HD660S)? I've not heard the HD800S but I have a good idea of how they compare to the HD800. I'd be interested to know (possibly again) how you would compare the HD660S to the HD880S (other than comfort), but preferably in comparison to the HD800 if possible.

 

[Mike F]

I've just checked on Amazon (uk and de) and there's no HD650. Available elsewhere, but.........? HD660S still over 50% more than the HD600. Hmmm........

 

[Deftone]

This is an interesting comment. I have the HD600 HD650 and HD800. Of the 6 series I prefer the 650 as I find it smoother but at the same time more resolving (detailed) than the 600. The HD800 is a totally different experience. The HD800 is in many well documented ways far superior to the HD650, but for me the 650 still sounds more natural (doesn't have an almost supernatural soundstage or boosted treble, for example) and so even though it is ultimately less resolving it still sounds more correct (natural) to me.

What's your impression of the HD650 HD660S and HD800 in terms of naturalness? I know that's a hugely subjective word, but hopefully from the above you have an idea of what I mean. Your description of the 660S as having 'an effortless flow to the sound' sounds like a description of naturalness to me. BTW I'm not confusing natural with neutral (which can sound pretty horrible at times......).

For me naturalness would be a well balanced sound and realistic timbre, my view of effortless flow is how the driver performs while producing music in genres with a lot instruments at once like metal, 660 make it sound like its easy work, never congested and plenty more to give where as 650 sounds like it struggles and it starts to blend multiple drum kits and guitars together because its slower. I have only heard this kind of performance from HD800 and IE800 so i didnt expect it to be in a headphone at this price it was very nice surprise.

I also find the 660 to be quite a bit more resolving than 650, when i go back and forth from finding new details its not there on the 650 or much harder to hear. 660 is an upgrade in almost every way to my ears, sennheiser did amazing work keeping the sound signature so close to the 6 series but being far more technically improved while still being rich and smooth. Im now starting to think I should just stop now with 660 and enjoy them for years instead of looking for the next hit, im just very happy when listening to it for hours and not thinking if their could be better. To my ears its the perfect balance between musical and technical.

 

[SilverEars]

Once I got back into HD6XX (or 650) I realized Tyll was right. No need for HD660S or the 58X.

Probablem with HD660S is the dynamics and my guess is the driver doesn't reach the dynamics of the other Sennheisers. Perhaps it's related to the voice coil as it's half the impedance of the original siblings, and doesn't hit the dynamics as hard.

I agree what is seemingly a peak treble cutoff on the HD6XX makes sounds more natural, but at times the details do not stand out as much as the HD600. I do find the tonality to be organic vs the HD800. I feel like the HD800 has unnatural tonality and needs treble to be cut off with more mid and low-end body. I which I'm sure people look for with the righ amp to suppress harshness. These Sennheisers though I got to say, are probably the best bang for the buck, and does scale really well.

What is interesting about the HD6XX is that the speed of bass can be fast if driven well, but also can have slight phase delay. It can be controlled to respond very fast.

Interesting thing about the HD650 for me is, you start off with it due to a fairer price as an entry to the hobby, sell it, try other stuff, and when you get back to it, you realize it scales as you probably improved your system by then.

 

[Deftone]

Once I got back into HD6XX (or 650) I realized Tyll was right. No need for HD660S or the 58X.

Probablem with HD660S is the dynamics and my guess is the driver doesn't reach the dynamics of the other Sennheisers. Perhaps it's related to the voice coil as it's half the impedance of the original siblings, and doesn't hit the dynamics as hard.

I agree what is seemingly a peak treble cutoff on the HD6XX makes sounds more natural, but at times the details do not stand out as much as the HD600. I do find the tonality to be organic vs the HD800. I feel like the HD800 has unnatural tonality and needs treble to be cut off with more mid and low-end body. I which I'm sure people look for with the righ amp to suppress harshness. These Sennheisers though I got to say, are probably the best bang for the buck, and does scale really well.

What is interesting about the HD6XX is that the speed of bass can be fast if driven well, but also can have slight phase delay. It can be controlled to respond very fast.

Interesting thing about the HD650 for me is, you start off with it due to a fairer price as an entry to the hobby, sell it, try other stuff, and when you get back to it, you realize it scales as you probably improved your system by then.

I agree that the 650 can sound tighter and faster with a great amp many more improvements but your also going to be spending over £800 or more for a quality balanced amp plus the cost of the 650 but it will still never sound as controlled and detailed as the 660s bass running on a lesser/cheaper amplifier.

 

[SilverEars]

I agree that the 650 can sound tighter and faster with a great amp many more improvements but your also going to be spending over £800 or more for a quality balanced amp plus the cost of the 650 but it will still never sound as controlled and detailed as the 660s bass running on a lesser/cheaper amplifier.

We all hear different setups and I will have a differing opinion from yours. HD6XX can be well controlled and detailed, but I guess the HD660S is more consistant output when it comes to differing amps, which was said of the 58X as well.

 

[Deftone]

We all hear different setups and I will have a differing opinion from yours. HD6XX can be well controlled and detailed, but I guess the HD660S is more consistant output when it comes to differing amps, which was said of the 58X as well.

Of course, we all have preferences but the 660 makes me want to buy more music where as the the 650 made me want to buy big expensive amplifiers.

(note - im not knocking the 650 down, i still like it a lot, i think it still has its place)