The way I would explain it is that the HD650 is dark relative to most other headphones but not dark relative to real life music. It has very high resolution presented in a natural way, not forced or hyped in any way.
Bright or dark character does not ensurs higher level of detail. There are numerous examples of hps that are detailed AND dark/bright. (eg hd800 for bright and audeze lcd3 for dark character)
Level of detail or resolution perhaps depends on driver capability, how well unwanted resonences are contained, how optimised shell design is for the driver, etc. Some engineers from sennheiser hq might be able to tackle this better.
I do find hd800 to offer better resolution than other hps i have tried. Mostly its inconsequential stuff like an extra layer of drums, or a squeaky flute, here and there. It also sounds so detailed out of entry level electronics. My HD700, i have to step up quiet a bit in terms of electronics to approach same level of detail.
Bright or dark pretty much has nothing to do with whether a headphone is detailed or not. Accentuations of certain parts of the frequency response can give the impression of more detail at times but that’s not the same as detailed. How detailed a headphone is more tied to the resolving ability and transient response of a headphone. If we’re talking the ability to resolve detail between the HD 650 and HD 660 S, I personally found the two quite close in this aspect to the point it’s hard for me to conclude which is more resolving. It’s a rather small difference between the two in terms of detail retrieval. The biggest difference is going to be dynamic character and tuning between the two.
If a treble detail is very very faint, it's the law of physics that you'll hear it on the brightet headphone and not on a dark one. If you can barely hear it on a bright headphone, you won't be able to hear it at -10dB. The thing is that most of such details that can be barely heard are not very important usually, so you can enjoy the music on any of the Senn models, the tonality that you prefer is more important, also the character. To be honest, it's not the darkness that bothers me most about the HD650, but the overly polite and mellow sound. Well, it's good if I want to relax, but I mostly prefer a more alert character.
If a treble detail is very very faint, it's the law of physics that you'll hear it on the brightet headphone and not on a dark one. If you can barely hear it on a bright headphone, you won't be able to hear it at -10dB.
It's just not as simple as that, it's a question of fidelity - resolving ability in other words.
To make the point easier to understand think of a very cheap headphone of the sort that might in the past have come with an inexpensive personal audio player. That sort of headphone was often painfully bright, but they had to be to give any impression of detail because they had such poor resolution. Now think of a very high quality but very dark headphone like the LCD2. The sound wil be much darker than the cheap headphones, but there will be buckets more detail because the headphone is so much more resolving. This is an extreme example of course, but I hope it helps you to understand the principle that bright doesn't equal more detail than dark.
Bright or dark pretty much has nothing to do with whether a headphone is detailed or not. Accentuations of certain parts of the frequency response can give the impression of more detail at times but that’s not the same as detailed. How detailed a headphone is more tied to the resolving ability and transient response of a headphone. If we’re talking the ability to resolve detail between the HD 650 and HD 660 S, I personally found the two quite close in this aspect to the point it’s hard for me to conclude which is more resolving. It’s a rather small difference between the two in terms of detail retrieval. The biggest difference is going to be dynamic character and tuning between the two.
Additionally, the ability to hang all instruments, sounds, and voices "in space" (without being bright) which the outstanding "classic trio" on my desktop can't quite do compared to great totl cans.
Additionally, the ability to hang all instruments, sounds, and voices "in space" (without being bright) which the outstanding "classic trio" on my desktop can't quite do compared to great totl cans.
Exactly, thats what separates summit-fi from mid-fi imho, the HD 660 S, HD 650, and my Amiron Home are all what I consider mid-fi. I have one headphone I consider summit-fi, the DT 480. It can do this imaging without any hint of brightness or harshness straight out of an iPhone. Once you hear every single instrument/voice/sound suspended in its own space with a pitch black background and the freakishly realistic imaging and detail that comes with that it’s hard to go back. This ability allows you to hear the texture and detail in every instrument, sound, and vocal and the location of the sound with ease.
Exactly, thats what separates summit-fi from mid-fi imho, the HD 660 S, HD 650, and my Amiron Home are all what I consider mid-fi. I have one headphone I consider summit-fi, the DT 480. It can do this imaging without any hint of brightness or harshness straight out of an iPhone. Once you hear every single instrument/voice/sound suspended in its own space with a pitch black background and the freakishly realistic imaging and detail that comes with that it’s hard to go back. This ability allows you to hear the texture and detail in every instrument, sound, and vocal and the location of the sound with ease.
Eh. Midfi cans do it well. In my experience. Its just that flagship cans do it slightly better. On my system at least.
On hd700 i am always attending a live concert. If i swap to beyer t1, difference is not as drastic. Its still a live concert. But if i do step down to akg k550 (its closer to akg k7xx), its still convincing. Just not as many goosebumps or mind blowing experiences.
Eh. Midfi cans do it well. In my experience. Its just that flagship cans do it slightly better. On my system at least.
On hd700 i am always attending a live concert. If i swap to beyer t1, difference is not as drastic. Its still a live concert. But if i do step down to akg k550 (its closer to akg k7xx), its still convincing. Just not as many goosebumps or mind blowing experiences.
They can on the right system but it’s not quite fully there like with a flagship, you can tell they struggle a bit with it. Exactly it’s how often it gives you goosebumps and moments of awe. If a headphone does that all the time then you have an excellent headphone/system.
Additionally, the ability to hang all instruments, sounds, and voices "in space" (without being bright) which the outstanding "classic trio" on my desktop can't quite do compared to great totl cans.
Interesting comments. Which TOTL phones do you have in mind? I’ve yet to find one that does tone like the HD6- - . Tone is the magical thing that does it for me moreso than space.
Interesting comments. Which TOTL phones do you have in mind? I’ve yet to find one that does tone like the HD6- - . Tone is the magical thing that does it for me moreso than space.
The HD 6xx family definitely has an unique tone and honestly that is why they are so successful, it’s never really been replicated by any other manufacturer in the market though, it definitely seems like a Sennheiser exclusive thing. The closest people have gotten is likely those who mod headphones and use the HD 6xx family as a baseline. The HD 800/800S while technically better headphones don’t have the same tonality, I am a sucker for fidelity so I do like the HD 800 series more overall though. For me the HD 6xx family has the tonal characteristics I use as a baseline as I always felt they are some of the best tuned headphones out there, may not have the best drivers but in terms of tuning they are near ideal imho.
Interesting comments. Which TOTL phones do you have in mind? I’ve yet to find one that does tone like the HD6- - . Tone is the magical thing that does it for me moreso than space.
The HD 6xx family definitely has an unique tone and honestly that is why they are so successful, it’s never really been replicated byany other manufacturer in the market though, it definitely seems like a Sennheiser exclusive thing. The closest people have gotten is likely those who mod headphones and use the HD 6xx family as a baseline. The HD 800/800S while technically better headphones don’t have the same tonality, I am a sucker for fidelity so I do like the HD 800 series more overall though. For me the HD 6xx family has the tonal characteristics I use as a baseline as I always felt they are some of the best tuned headphones out there, may not have the best drivers but in terms of tuning they are near ideal imho.
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