[DavidA]

The hd700 also have a dip at 2-3kHz beside the 6kHz peak. Don't know which is worse of the two (the dip or the peak), but the hd660s solved both, fortunately. The large soundstage of the hd700 didn't bother me, in fact I liked it, but the uneven frequency response bothered me a lot. The rigid tangle prone cable, the screetching earcups. It was a complete failure for me. I sold it rapidly for under half the price since everybody was running away from them, at least in my community. In fact, the guy who bought it did it just out of curiosity, to see how bad they actually are, not intending to necessarily use them as a main device.

What I would really really like now is a closed back hd660s, with a +5-6 dB under 50Hz. I would really put my money in that as a secondary headphone.

Among my friends that have headphones the HD700 is one of the favorites but one thing that all who like them have in common is either a slightly warm SS amp or a hybrid amp.

And that was exactly my point - you don't hear the sibilant peak in the HD 700 (or you don't perceive it as a problem), but many do. I'm just bearing that in mind when I read your impressions of the HD 660 S - not that it too has a sibilant peak, but that you obviously like brighter headphones. Nothing wrong with that, but I have found that I generally don't.....

Something to think about: I had issues with the HD600 being sibilant with its small peak in the 3.5-5khz range but the higher peaks of the HD700 and HD800 don't bother me at all. The HD660S is an over all brighter sounding headphone than the HD600 to me but it doesn't bother me. Like you I like the presentation of the HD650 and its not for the lack of sparkle in the highs but how it does with female vocals, piano and acoustic/woodwind instruments where the HD660S has a slightly weird edge to me that doesn't sound natural to me at times. Also, like I noted earlier the choice of amp has a lot of influence on how on will perceive the HD700 and it seems to apply to the HD650 also. I think its important that ones comment on how a headphone sounds should also include what support gear (DAC/amp) was used, along with the genre and listening level.

@Rob80b, while I don't agree with you on the HD660S on some points I respect that you note what gear you are using and the genre that you are listening to so I have a better frame of reference to what you are saying.

I'd also suggest to many that make comments to fill in your profile (headphones own/owned, DACs and amp, genre of preference, and listening level) so others will have a better point of reference on your comments.

 

[Mike F]

Something to think about: I had issues with the HD600 being sibilant with its small peak in the 3.5-5khz range but the higher peaks of the HD700 and HD800 don't bother me at all. The HD660S is an over all brighter sounding headphone than the HD600 to me but it doesn't bother me. Like you I like the presentation of the HD650 and its not for the lack of sparkle in the highs but how it does with female vocals, piano and acoustic/woodwind instruments where the HD660S has a slightly weird edge to me that doesn't sound natural to me at times. Also, like I noted earlier the choice of amp has a lot of influence on how on will perceive the HD700 and it seems to apply to the HD650 also. I think its important that ones comment on how a headphone sounds should also include what support gear (DAC/amp) was used, along with the genre and listening level.

@Rob80b, while I don't agree with you on the HD660S on some points I respect that you note what gear you are using and the genre that you are listening to so I have a better frame of reference to what you are saying.

I'd also suggest to many that make comments to fill in your profile (headphones own/owned, DACs and amp, genre of preference, and listening level) so others will have a better point of reference on your comments.

David, thanks for your comments above, very helpful, especially the highlighted part. You make a very good point about knowing what gear is being used and what music listened to for point of reference. So, I'm either listening to a Marantz CD12/DA12 via a Lehmann BCL or from my PowerMac dual G5 (yes really - I can hear the laughter from here...) via an HDVD 800 with a balanced cable. Music is usually ECM - Jan Garbarek etc, orchestral, or fusion. Some pop but no rock. Hard to be very specific as I have over 1000 CD's and my iTunes library is more than 34 days........! Headphones I've mentioned before but currently Senn 580, 600, 650, 800 and some closed back Sony pros. Headphones listened to are too many to recall - Beyers Stax HiFiman AKG AT........ Listening level is generally quite low - very often no more than 10 o'clock on the HDVD 800. Hope this helps.

PS If it makes a difference, I'm a classically trained professional musician. Bassoon, clarinet, flute and saxophones. I have a small home studio as well. Lots of experience in orchestras, shows, bands of various sorts. I think I can claim to know how live acoustic music and instruments sound!

 

[Rob80b]

Rob. Just to clarify, and possibly save you from giving me an unnecessary response, I am not presuming that the HD 660 S will be too bright for me. I'm just bearing your preferences in mind.

Hi Mike

Without actually owning.... what you are saying is extremely important...for example I was unable to audition the 700s before purchasing but I always found Mike's impressions and preferences over at headfonia.com quite often mirrored my own, same thing applied with a number of head-fiers right here..and I know I'm very often at polar opposites of Tyll.. so the 700 purchase was not really a leap of faith.
https://www.headfonia.com/ls-take-on-the-sennheiser-hd700/2/
"the HD700 manages to be the perfect bridge between the HD650 and the HD800. Not only in terms of price, but sound quality."

 

[Mike F]

Hi Mike

Without actually owning.... what you are saying is extremely important...for example I was unable to audition the 700s before purchasing but I always found Mike's impressions and preferences over at headfonia.com quite often mirrored my own, same thing applied with a number of head-fiers right here..and I know I'm very often at polar opposites of Tyll.. so the 700 purchase was not really a leap of faith.
https://www.headfonia.com/ls-take-on-the-sennheiser-hd700/2/
"the HD700 manages to be the perfect bridge between the HD650 and the HD800. Not only in terms of price, but sound quality."

Rob, thanks for that. I often like what Mike at Headphonia has to say as well. I always thought that he was right on the money with this slightly older review:- https://www.headfonia.com/the-sennheiser-trio-hd580-hd600-hd650/3/

 

[Rob80b]

Speak of the devil....didn't catch this one.
https://www.headfonia.com/picture-sunday-sennheiser-hd660s/

but not a full review....as of yet.

 

[Anarion]

That will always be the 700s polarizer...I'm sure it has to do with ear-cup design and how the drivers interact with individual ear canals as many have not had a problem with peaks and troughs but we cannot deny nor dismiss the observations of those who have as they have heard what they've heard.
In fact, now this is just a thought and not a definitive explanation by any stretch of the imagination, but what if those peaks and troughs where in fact the design elements which allowed for the 700s sound staging...for some it worked for others it just produced a wonky sound signature.

I doubt that the 6K bump helps with that. It's the angled transducer design that makes the biggest difference.

Rob. Just to clarify, and possibly save you from giving me an unnecessary response, I am not presuming that the HD 660 S will be too bright for me. I'm just bearing your preferences in mind.

What concerns me more is the reported loss of the low level detail that the HD 650 reproduces. I just love the dark presentation that is still very finely detailed, and wouldn't want to trade that for slightly less resolution and a brighter sound.

It doesn't sound anything like HD 700. When I tested it is sounded surprisingly similar to HD 595 sound signature wise. It had better bass but sound stage wasn't as wide which was a shame. Also there definitely was that three blob thingy unlike HD 595 or HD 700. With my brief test I'd actually say that HD 595 & HD 660 S had more in common than HD 595 & HD 598. HD 660 S obviously has superior detail and so on but the sound stage...



Currently A&B testing HD 595 and HD 598 just for the fun and the difference is pretty daumn large. HD 598 sounds muddy if you switch from HD 595 to it instantly. Vocals (and mids) are less strong, there's noticeable difference in sensitivity -> HD 595 sound louder at the same volume settings. HD 598 has stronger bass, HD 595 sounds clearer across the board (and, IMO, there's less grain). Both don't like high ohm output at all because the bass gets bloated. (Although since HD 595 is lighter on the bass side, it's not as big problem). HD 660 S didn't sound muddy, it was clear. Makes me wonder if the difference between HD 595 and HD 598 is somewhat similar than HD 660 S and HD 650. You either like the changes or not.

 

[Mike F]

Speak of the devil....didn't catch this one.
https://www.headfonia.com/picture-sunday-sennheiser-hd660s/

but not a full review....as of yet.

Looking forward to the full review!

 

[Rob80b]

I doubt that the 6K bump helps with that. It's the angled transducer design that makes the biggest difference.

To emulate a soundstage it can be a combination of both, speaker designers would play with the crossover and cabinet to give the illusion of depth, headphones can only really apply this with the driver angle, baffle and cavity and in the case of the 700s while it was more or less was successful it may be the culprit responsible for creating the unwanted peaks and notches for some listeners.

 

[Rob80b]

......... Music is usually ECM - Jan Garbarek etc, orchestral, or fusion. Some pop but no rock.
.......
Listening level is generally quite low.........

This is probably the most important aspect to pay attention to in desiphering what one may expect from a reviewer.... their music and listening habits.
I'm fairly eclectic and can swing from a Bach quartet to some raucous German opera like Rammstein's Reise Reise : ) which can easily get moderately loud levels..80-90dBs....but not for extended periods.

Glad to see a fellow flutists on board, my work though is more in experimental Electro-acoustics and modern.

 

[pietcux]

Looking forward to the full review!

The site is no longer owned by Mike. It is now run by Liven from Belgium. The site changed a lot.

 

[Rob80b]

The site is no longer owned by Mike. It is now run by Liven from Belgium. The site changed a lot.

True....but.
"A few years ago Sennheiser tried to bring these fan groups closer together with the launch of the HD700 and while I personally liked that headphone, it didn’t turn out to be a huge success in the headphone world. "

Will be informative to see his take.

 

[amartignano]

but what if those peaks and troughs where in fact the design elements which allowed for the 700s sound staging

That's all what the hd700 and its characteristics/problems are all about. Tuning the response to soundstaging. And it works very well for symphonic, less good for other genres. I somehow love/loved it, but I'm selling them to finance the bought of a Stax Srs3100 system. But only because I also have the Hd800S. If there was not hd800S, I will keep the Hd700 for sure. It's strange, but a very clever headphones in some way.

 

[Rob80b]

...........
the Hd700 for sure. It's strange, but a very clever headphones in some way.

Hope you don’t mind if I borrow that line once in a while. : )

 

[donlin]

That's all what the hd700 and its characteristics/problems are all about. Tuning the response to soundstaging. And it works very well for symphonic, less good for other genres. I somehow love/loved it, but I'm selling them to finance the bought of a Stax Srs3100 system. But only because I also have the Hd800S. If there was not hd800S, I will keep the Hd700 for sure. It's strange, but a very clever headphones in some way.

I liked the HD700 a lot and didn’t find it overly bright. In the end the HD650 won out over it though. The HD660s is very different from the 700 however.

 

[vaibhavp]

The hd700 also have a dip at 2-3kHz beside the 6kHz peak. Don't know which is worse of the two (the dip or the peak), but the hd660s solved both, fortunately. The large soundstage of the hd700 didn't bother me, in fact I liked it, but the uneven frequency response bothered me a lot. The rigid tangle prone cable, the screetching earcups. It was a complete failure for me. I sold it rapidly for under half the price since everybody was running away from them, at least in my community. In fact, the guy who bought it did it just out of curiosity, to see how bad they actually are, not intending to necessarily use them as a main device.

What I would really really like now is a closed back hd660s, with a +5-6 dB under 50Hz. I would really put my money in that as a secondary headphone.

And that was exactly my point - you don't hear the sibilant peak in the HD 700 (or you don't perceive it as a problem), but many do. I'm just bearing that in mind when I read your impressions of the HD 660 S - not that it too has a sibilant peak, but that you obviously like brighter headphones. Nothing wrong with that, but I have found that I generally don't.....

700 peaks if materialise are not really a joke. I suspect Robs system is good enough so that he didn't heard them in the first place.

Sennheiser design philosophy has always been, as i have seen, to make their high end hps such that one has to put some effort into making it sound great. Wheather it be hd 650, 700 or 800. 700 for some reason not clear to me got a lot of hate from reviewers upon launch. Mainly that it offers same amount of resolution as hd650. Just like 660s is getting now. Nobody in their right mind would pay twice for same sound quality.

Thats the reason why nobody bothered to put any effort into making a system for it. They just heard treble peaks, then sold it cause it has bad reputation. If same were situation for 650/800 everyone would ve sold them as well cause their problems are even more severe and hard to cure.

Only recently senn has come up with two s models that dont require as much commitment and sound great right out of gate.

For me hd700 was dream hp right when i started this hobby. It was a prized possession when i bought it and still is, even more so now that i have system to do them justice.