MusicalParadise
aka: xDaveyJ, Hachiko270296, TheReem, Ryan Rahman and numerous other aliases
I’m not a fan of weak sounding gear. It’s very overpriced for what it offers.Not as overpriced as the Hugo though that thing was awful IMO
Sennheiser HD660S... Finally a successor for the HD650?
- Thread starter Levanter
- Start date
The Violectric V281 is 0.1 Ohm unbalanced and 0.2 Ohm balanced. No idea on the Woo or Eddie Current output impedance as it’s not listed.
I haven’t heard the HD 660 S on the WA3 yet. Interesting. It could actually be the other pair and how broken in the pads, clamp etc. were as well. And even with Sennheisers excellent quality control there is always some level of variance between units. I’ve only heard two different HD 660 S and they are pretty much the same though.
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MusicalParadise
aka: xDaveyJ, Hachiko270296, TheReem, Ryan Rahman and numerous other aliases
Do yourself a fav and at grab a Vali 2 and Modi Multi. Don’t waste your time with consumer grade overpriced underperforming gear. I don’t even know why you’re looking into a Mojo if you own a HD600 series headphone get a real setup for them.
I used to have a 650 and tried it out with the Mojo and it wasn’t good at all. It sounded a little flat and underpowered. I didn’t even like the Mojo with the Sony Z1R I had at the time. The Mojo is massively hyped here but it fell short for me.
While I didn't try a Mojo with the HD660S it was not a good pairing with HD650 and I'd have to agree with those that think its over priced as a DAC/amp unless you really need the portability.
The 2 times I've tried the HD660S it didn't seem to scale much but for those that don't want to deal with DACs or amps (tubes) the HD660S is a better sounding headphone to me but if you have a decent amp (BH Crack) or better then the HD650 is still a step ahead of the HD660S. The other thing is the HD660S sounds closer to a HD600 than a HD650 to me and my friend who owns the HD660S.
The 2 times I've tried the HD660S it didn't seem to scale much but for those that don't want to deal with DACs or amps (tubes) the HD660S is a better sounding headphone to me but if you have a decent amp (BH Crack) or better then the HD650 is still a step ahead of the HD660S. The other thing is the HD660S sounds closer to a HD600 than a HD650 to me and my friend who owns the HD660S.
Price dropped on Amazon.de: 435,76 € at the moment. https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B076NWQXPS/
As far as I know Bottlehead Crack has rather insanely high output impedance so it's not wonder why HD 660 S wouldn't sound right out of it. In my opinion saying that HD 660 S doesn't scale isn't quite accurate when the real reason is more like the amp only works correctly with high ohm headphones and the pairing just isn't optimal.
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The BH Crack's output impedance is determined by the power tubes used and I don't think 75ohms is "insanely high". This is what I posted in the other HD660S thread
Honestly I think that is the case, the HD 660 S sounded good out of all the amps I tried with lower output impedance and it scaled nicely with the better amps and dacs. A lot of these higher end tube amps can have a rather high output impedance. I don't think the HD 660 S likes a high output impedance very much based on my testing, I need test and confirm this more thoroughly though.
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75 ohms is really high for a 150 ohm headphone.
The Sennheiser HDV 820 which someone said sounded better on the HD 660 S than the HD 650 seems to have an output impedance of around 16 Ohms which is much more suitable for the HD 660 S. Going to need to try the HD 660 S compared to the HD 650 on a variety of higher-end Tube and SS amps with lower output impedance in the future.
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Agree that 75ohms is high for a 150ohm headphone but if you read what I posted in the other HD660S thread some of the other amps I tried have lower impedances and the HD660S still didn't scale like the HD650. My theory is the lower 150ohms impedance of the HD660S is one of the reasons that it doesn't scale as much and its why I noticed with my Ember when changing the output impedance the HD660S didn't change much while the HD650 changes are more noticeable getting slightly better as you go from 0.1 > 35 > 120 ohm output.
How do you find the HD 700 to scale compared to the HD 650? I have a Project Sunrise 3 and neither the HD 660 S or Amiron Home changed dramatically when I changed the output impedance, they change but not like the HD 600/650 did on the amp. The Amiron is a headphone that scales notably better with gear than any of the HD 6xx family to my ears. The lower impedance does make the HD 660 S less sensitive to changes yes, meaning it is less picky across amps, but that's not really the same thing as scaling. The HD 600/650 have an impedance curve that makes them really sensitive to changes in the system, which I personally found gives the illusion they scale more than they actually do, they do scale a lot don't get me wrong but I never found as much as many say they do.
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@kman1211, My interpretation of scaling is a headphone that sounds better with better gear and in part that means a headphone that is more sensitive to changes. When I tried the HD660S on a Elise, Icon HP8 mk2, MicroZOTL2, and a few other amps it pretty much sounded the same so as you say its not amp picky but to me it also means that it doesn't seem to scale since the HD650 does sound cleaner and more detailed with these amps over my BH Crack which I interpret as scaling. While the HD650 sounds great on my BH Crack it does sound better on a Liquid Glass to me but it also starts to sound too clean and detailed to me that its starts to loose the smooth charm of the HD650 that I prefer.
The HD700 does change a little when I change the output impedance of the Ember but not as much as the HD650, T1 or HD800.
The HD700 does change a little when I change the output impedance of the Ember but not as much as the HD650, T1 or HD800.
Well yes, but the HD 650 higher impedance creates a two-fold effect, sensitivity from how revealing it is of gear and sensitivity due to it's impedance curve is. When it comes to how revealing it is of the quality of gear, I don't find the HD 650 better than the HD 660 S. The subtle changes in resolution, detail, solidity, etc. come off as more noticeable on the HD 660 S to me actually. I personally view the HD 650, T1, and HD 800 as amp finicky headphones. If I was going to build a system around a headphone I've owned, I wouldn't build it around the HD 600, 650, or the 660 S as none are quite detailed and revealing enough of the system. For determining a systems actual fidelity, I find headphones such as the Utopia, HD 800/S, K1000, DT 48/480, etc. better at this as long as you factor in the impedance/sensitivity of the headphones used to make sure the dampening ratio and power is sufficient. STAX too but they use a different set of amps.
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MusicalParadise
aka: xDaveyJ, Hachiko270296, TheReem, Ryan Rahman and numerous other aliases
the HD600 series can get pretty close to the HD800 on a good rig. Yes it’s obviously expensive but the point is these headphones just keep scaling which the HD700 drivers in the HD660S don’t do. Even on a Vali 2 and Modi M rig the HD650 performed better than the 660S. I find the HD660S to really not improve in any area minus maybe a tiny bit cleaner sounding on budget gear. They still obviously have issues with poor bass texture and lack of overall clarity compared to say the HD800 and others that prevents them being seen in that category but when it comes to finer details, overall resolution the 600 series is a top headphone on a good rig. A HD650 on something like a DNA Sonnet 2 would be an eye opener for many on what those 600 series drivers are capable of. Why Sennheiser reused drivers from a failed headphone is beyond me they could’ve made a new driver to continue an already great line.
pietcux
Headphoneus Supremus
Why they moved to a lower impedance is simply because the owners of boutique tube amps and other uber stuff are a minority in the real world, on Headfi and other specialist forums they are much better represented. In the real outside world people do crazy stuff like using smartphones and tablets to stream their music... I absolutely like to run all my headphones from my Sony WM1A. Even better on the balanced output. The HD650 benefits a lot fro the balanced cable that came with the HD660S. But the headphone with the reused driver from the failed HD700 is still the better choice for me. More PRAT and more details across the board. This is a no brainer for people like me. All the specialists can go on and try to force the HD600/650 to be what the HD660S already is and spend all their precious time and money on tons of gear, that is all but portable. No problem with that, the HD660S is not for you guys, you stay where you are and be happy.
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