[headr]

Funny how people over-react to Tyll's opinion. There is no need to defend your purchase through insulting Tyll. I have bought a pair of Elear due to Tyll's review and sold it shortly as I don't like how it sounds. After that I always take Tyll's words with a grain of salts. However, I still respect Tyll for his honesty. It takes some serious balls to stand against companies like Sony and Sennheiser.

Sure, at the same time, just because Tyll has been around a while doesn't mean he is somehow above criticism. Maybe if you read more people who criticize Tyll's reviews and approach, you wouldn't have wasted time and money on the Elear without trying it for yourself first. Isn't that what's important?

And saying Tyll is overly dramatic is nothing new. That isn't an attack against Tyll, in fact, I'm sure he loves the attention. This is a guy who dressed up in lingerie for a magazine ad to sell. Part of what makes him interesting is his personality, and part of that is his melodramatic approach to things at times.

Don't be so sensitive. I'm sure Tyll isn't.

 

[donlin]

Funny how people over-react to Tyll's opinion. There is no need to defend your purchase through insulting Tyll. I have bought a pair of Elear due to Tyll's review and sold it shortly as I don't like how it sounds. After that I always take Tyll's words with a grain of salts. However, I still respect Tyll for his honesty. It takes some serious balls to stand against companies like Sony and Sennheiser.

Very well said.

 

[Rob80b]

Funny how people over-react to Tyll's opinion.........

Sadly and unfortunately I'm already reading that folks have dismissed the the 660s sight...unheard...because of ...the review has made me look at their arrival (when ever they finally get shipped out) with even more anticipation.
Even though Mr T has substantiated his observations with actual readings, which should not be dismissed he does have his preferences and potential buyers if they cannot hear them directly should balance their decision through reading multiple pro and user reviews.

 

[DavidA]

Funny how people over-react to Tyll's opinion. There is no need to defend your purchase through insulting Tyll. I have bought a pair of Elear due to Tyll's review and sold it shortly as I don't like how it sounds. After that I always take Tyll's words with a grain of salts. However, I still respect Tyll for his honesty. It takes some serious balls to stand against companies like Sony and Sennheiser.

Tyll has a certain sound that he likes and if you so happen to like a similar sound signature then you can consider his reviews as getting you in the right direction but its still your ears that should make the final decision. Its been about 50-50 for me since I love the HD700 but don't care for any Ether/EtherC and there are a few other examples but with the HD660S I have to agree with him on some points and disagree with others, I didn't think they were grainy but do agree that they don't scale (sound better with better gear) like the HD600/650.

I think the HD660S was designed to be used with a wider variety of gear while the HD600/650 was designed for a certain class of amps/gear which in turn maybe why some seem to really like the HD660S over the HD650 due to the gear they are using which influences how these headphones sound.

 

[Arthur Li]

Sadly and unfortunately I'm already reading that folks have dismissed the the 660s sight...unheard...because of ...the review has made me look at their arrival (when ever they finally get shipped out) with even more anticipation.
Even though Mr T has substantiated his observations with actual readings, which should not be dismissed he does have his preferences and potential buyers if they cannot hear them directly should balance their decision through reading multiple pro and user reviews.

I agree that people should not dismiss the hd660s solely based on one man's words.

 

[Rob80b]

I agree that people should not dismiss the hd660s solely based on one man's words.

Mind you if the review had swung in the other direction I'd be buying Sennheiser stocks right now.... : )

 

[donlin]

@DavidA - would really appreciate if you would elaborate on where you agree and disagree with Tyll. Thanks.

 

[pietcux]

Mind you if the review had swung in the other direction I'd be buying Sennheiser stocks right now.... : )

For god's sake it is a family business.

 

[kman1211]

I think people are abusing the term "scaling" just like Tyll abused the word "grainy". People seem to want to take to mean "scaling with better equipment" to mean "this headphone has higher impedance, therefore, requires more power to drive, therefore, scales with equipment".

That isn't what scaling means. Scaling means the headphone has a very high level of detail resolution, such that it reveals the quality of the upstream chain - including amplifier, DAC, and source recording.

The 660S has higher detail retrieval than it's predecessors, therefore, ipso facto it scales better with better equipment. This is somewhat related to things like it's faster transient response, more even frequency response, and likely the fact it's actually a modern driver developed this millennia.

I understand the 650 had a rabid fan base. There were many who loved that headphone, and treated it as the TOTL Sennheiser even after the 800 came out. The 660 S was never going to please all the people all the time. Even if you are a hardcore 650 fanatic, please stop abusing the language we all use. The 660 S is not "grainy" or "distorted", it is highly revealing with accurate energy in the treble. It also scales much better with equipment compared to either the 600 or 650.

The 600/650 might have other advantages, but if you want to talk about them, please don't twist the common language we all use.

There definitely seems to be some confusion of terms floating around. Scaling definitely has nothing to do with impedance. Some low impedance headphones scale like crazy. The headphone I view as my best scaling headphone is 25 ohms.

The biggest challenge the HD 660 S faces is definitely it’s predecessors fans, not going to lie, it’s simply the most rabid fanbase in this entire hobby. It’s not competition from other companies that the headphone faces, it’s competition from within. I think a lot has to do with change, a lot of people don’t like change and that the HD 650 is being replaced by the new model seems to be fueling this more. The HD 650 and the HD 600 to a lesser degree are cult classics and honestly I think the reaction would be same regardless of the headphone that replaced the HD 650.

 

[donlin]

There definitely seems to be some confusion of terms floating around. Scaling definitely has nothing to do with impedance. Some low impedance headphones scale like crazy. The headphone I view as my best scaling headphone is 25 ohms.

The biggest challenge the HD 660 S faces is definitely it’s predecessors fans, not going to lie, it’s simply the most rabid fanbase in this entire hobby. It’s not competition from other companies that the headphone faces, it’s competition from within. I think a lot has to do with change, a lot of people don’t like change and that the HD 650 is being replaced by the new model seems to be fueling this more. The HD 650 and the HD 600 to a lesser degree are cult classics and honestly I think the reaction would be same regardless of the headphone that replaced the HD 650.

As part of that rabid fan base, I think there is some truth to what you say. The HD600/650 have an emotional attachment to those who have enjoyed them for so many years unlike any other. I have owned or carefully auditioned just about every serious headphone under $2500.00 and currently own only the HD650 and the Focal Clear. All others have gone by the wayside.

 

[catscratch]

The problem isn't the introduction of the 660S, it's the decision to discontinue the 650. I have no problems with a brighter, easier to drive but not quite as scaleable 650 if I can continue to buy a 650.

Also, I have to mention that whenever I recommend the 650 to someone but also mention "oh btw, it might need an amp" the most common reaction I get BY FAR is "oh... never mind, I'll get something else." The fact that to us headphone junkies an amp is just another part of the equation is generally irrelevant to the general public. They want to buy a headphone, plug it into whatever they have, and not worry about it. Having to learn stuff about amps, dacs, having to put a system together and wire stuff up is a huge turnoff for just about everybody. So I can see why they did it. The HD650 is a dinosaur. Unfortunately, it's also a racing dinosaur that runs laps around most of the new stuff while costing far less.

Basically, we should make noise, because if we do Sennheiser might hear it and not discontinue the HD650. Companies will pull a fast one on ya if they can get away with it, but if the stink rises high enough to be smelt in their high and mighty offices (and more to the point, affects the bottom line), they usually change their mind.

 

[lugnut]

The 800S is on my dream list. I've not even heard it or the original 800.

Kinda funny, when I first came here in 2008 & 2009 the HD800 was NOT getting a lot of love. They were being called out for being too bright and too expensive ! Sound a little familiar ? Then some time later it was being said they were only good if you had an expensive amp. Then a little later then that, they were being hailed as a great headphone. Just saying ........

 

[BLacklWf]

Looks like the debate won't die out any time soon..

Based on reading 'various' sources, I'm leaning toward.. If my gears are such as DAP+HD660S or Mojo+HD660S or DAP+Portable Amp+HD660S, HD660S will be better than HD6X0 series. I won't hear loss in resolution compared to HD6X0. But, if my gears are high end such as what Tyll uses, then I may hear less resolution compared to HD6X0. That's my take for now. I have Violectric V281 for amp, but my DAC is old Emotiva. So for me, I think HD660S will sound better than my HD6XX since I don't have that much resolution in my system anyway. My amp is extremely resolving but my source isn't. But, I wish someone with HD660S + HD6X0 and TOTL can confirm. No, I don't mean something like AK SP1000. It's TOTL, but it's still portable when it comes to the driving force. The maximum impedance of HD660S goes over 400 ohm!

 

[Happytalk]

The 660 will sell just fine, regardless of Tyll, who I think is fantastic. I also think metal571 just put himself on the map with this review. He is already well regarded, but this one is important. If I was him I'd organize the stuff behind him, or move it out of view for a cleaner look, but other than that I think he is an excellent reviewer with a bright future. Somebody send him some amps!

 

[Malfunkt]

Having owned the 650 twice, I understand why these headphones are loved so much. While I hope they don't discontinue the HD650 or 600 I would understand if they do.

Prior to Tyll's review, the feedback has been very positive by members here at head-fi - and I trust those voices. But now, I get the feeling the echo-chamber of second-hand opinion is going to go against these headphones - on Head-fi, SBAF, and Reddit. Tyll's review, has perhaps given the 660S a small or moderately sized blow. Already, I have read a few posts on how this 150ohm move by Sennheiser is 'anti-consumer'.

People buy into the mythos. The idea is that the HD650 has some other mystical properties that other conventional dynamic drivers somehow do not possess. That the HD650/600 will endlessly scale into the heavens but only if you match it with $2000+ amps/dacs/cables.

Whether that idea of scalability is true or not - and I know many members here would say it is so, the HD660S represents a bit of threat to a certain way that some of us enjoy the hobby. The new HD660S is more plug-and-play and doesn't claim to require as special of gear to power it. I could see why there might be some pushback from the audiophile set.

I wonder if back in the '90s when Sennheiser transitioned away from the 600ohm legends - such as the HD540 and HD250 - there was similar lament.