[Shahrose]

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It may be because you are using a Schiit amp. (sorry old joke) Seriously though, I find the 650's are more picky with amps then most people on here suggest. Yes they sound good out of most dedicated amps but only a few really bring the best out of them. Tubes give them a massive soundstage but also can make the bass muddy etc (I'm talking about sub £500). For me Hybrid amps are the way forward with the 650's. Tube soundstage with S/S timing and speed keeps them in check.
 

^ I agree on all accounts.
 


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However, I believe that it may be impossible get a tight and contolled lower end with the 650's (in my experience)... they are always going to be warm at the bottom which can spill into the upper mids depending on how bassy the source is.

 

This one I don't agree with

. It's possible to make the HD650s sound fast in the low-end. Just need the right source/amp. A recable helps too (assuming you have sufficiently good gear to begin with).

 

[Roger Strummer]

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My only complaint about these headphones is that sometimes the sound can deteriorate and artifact in highly-detailed sections.  I was recently listening to The Dark Knight OST (FLAC), and in some parts everything started to "fall apart", with less detail and instrument separation.  The bass started to get muddy and less discrete, and it sounded like the elements were bleeding into eachother.  Not sure how else to describe it, but it started to sound "messy".  I've heard this sort of thing can happen if the 650s aren't properly amped, but I have a Schiit Lyr feeding them, so I don't think power is an issue.  I've only had this happen a few times though.

Apart from what others mentioned about the amp, what you might be hearing is the limitation of the transient response of the 650. They are not bad in that respect, but I found that they tend to get confused in very complex songs, some fast metal for example, and although they improved in that respect with the Beta22, that is not their strongest point. Just saying my opinion anyways.
 

 

[sphinxvc]

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This one I don't agree with

. It's possible to make the HD650s sound fast in the low-end. Just need the right source/amp. A recable helps too (assuming you have sufficiently good gear to begin with).

 
Shah, I really need to hear your setup.  Guess I just haven't heard the "right source/amp" for these cans.  
 
By the way, have you already tried the LCD-2s?  
 
Quote:

Apart from what others mentioned about the amp, what you might be hearing is the limitation of the transient response of the 650. They are not bad in that respect, but I found that they tend to get confused in very complex songs, some fast metal for example, and although they improved in that respect with the Beta22, that is not their strongest point. Just saying my opinion anyways.

 
I share your opinion.  =]
 
 

 

[Shahrose]

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By the way, have you already tried the LCD-2s?  
 

Yessir. I like them.
 

 

[sridhar3]

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I use the Xcan v3 and I love the synergy. I also have my 650's recabled and this can add more resolution. I listen to a lot of contemporary classical such as Elliot Carter and Birtwistle etc and the detail with this combo is fantastic with the complex orchestration. However, I believe that it may be impossible get a tight and contolled lower end with the 650's (in my experience)... they are always going to be warm at the bottom which can spill into the upper mids depending on how bassy the source is.
 
I would first try a quality solid silver interconnect first before you purchace a new component. Don't pay any more than £50-$60! and this can be great upgrade especially regarding resolution and detail.

 
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It's possible to make the HD650s sound fast in the low-end. Just need the right source/amp. A recable helps too (assuming you have sufficiently good gear to begin with).

I'm actually not using the stock cables.  I've got the Cardas Smurf cable as well as the Zu Mobius.  Using the Mobius right now.  I think the Zu is silver, and the Cardas is copper (correct me if I'm wrong here).
 
 
Quote:

Apart from what others mentioned about the amp, what you might be hearing is the limitation of the transient response of the 650. They are not bad in that respect, but I found that they tend to get confused in very complex songs, some fast metal for example, and although they improved in that respect with the Beta22, that is not their strongest point. Just saying my opinion anyways.

This was my initial thought, as they're only having problems resolving complex passages.  I think you've just given me an excuse to start looking at a pair of LCD-2s.
 

 

[thegr8brian]

Has anyone ever tried this cable. It appears to be made by ZePhone and seems like a good deal compared to most cables.

 

[Dyaems]

Hello. I'm new here.
 
I also have an HD650 and enjoying it with PB1 (with only stock cable reterminated with hirose plug) and just wondering if upgrading the PB1 into a PB2 and buying either DB1 or DB2 is also worth it? Which would be better in terms of SQ if all 2 DACs/AMPs are mixed with each other? Like PB1 + DB2, or PB2 + DB2, etc. Of course, I will also be using balanced connection for it
 
I like portable amps so desktop amps are not an option for now..
 
Thanks for the answers in advance!

 

[SP Wild]

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I use the Xcan v3 and I love the synergy. I also have my 650's recabled and this can add more resolution. I listen to a lot of contemporary classical such as Elliot Carter and Birtwistle etc and the detail with this combo is fantastic with the complex orchestration. However, I believe that it may be impossible get a tight and contolled lower end with the 650's (in my experience)... they are always going to be warm at the bottom which can spill into the upper mids depending on how bassy the source is.
 
I would first try a quality solid silver interconnect first before you purchace a new component. Don't pay any more than £50-$60! and this can be great upgrade especially regarding resolution and detail.
 

What mods did you carry out with the V3?  Did you have an opportunity to hear the before and after effects?  Standard, I felt the V3 was more suited to low Z cans than the HD650s high z load, which tended to lean out and muddy the bass, standard, this amp always rolled off and muddy the lowest bass and treble extension.
 

 

[olor1n]

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Got my 650s about a month and a half ago, and have put about 100 hrs on them so far.  Great sound quality for the price I paid.  Definitely a bit on the warm side, especially through a tube amp, but the sound is not the least bit fatiguing.  I've had at least one ten-hour listening session, and I never experienced any discomfort.
 
My only complaint about these headphones is that sometimes the sound can deteriorate and artifact in highly-detailed sections.  I was recently listening to The Dark Knight OST (FLAC), and in some parts everything started to "fall apart", with less detail and instrument separation.  The bass started to get muddy and less discrete, and it sounded like the elements were bleeding into eachother.  Not sure how else to describe it, but it started to sound "messy".  I've heard this sort of thing can happen if the 650s aren't properly amped, but I have a Schiit Lyr feeding them, so I don't think power is an issue.  I've only had this happen a few times though.
 
That aside, money well spent.

I'm drawn to the Lyr for "Moar Power" but this post tempers that temptation significantly. A seller on ebay was also very candid on his assessment of this amp, which cost him a quick sale. I'm starting to feel the b22 is the only place to go to put it beyond doubt.

 

[sridhar3]

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I'm drawn to the Lyr for "Moar Power" but this post tempers that temptation significantly. A seller on ebay was also very candid on his assessment of this amp, which cost him a quick sale. I'm starting to feel the b22 is the only place to go to put it beyond doubt.

 
I'm liable to think that the problem is with the headphones, not the amp, to be honest.  There's a fair number of impressions of the Lyr with the LCD-2, and consensus is that the combination sings, handling complexity effortlessly.
 
I'd look at the b22, but I'm not a DIY-er in any sense.  Also, I'm a fan of tube sound, so I think I'm going to stick with that.

 

[Shahrose]

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I'm liable to think that the problem is with the headphones, not the amp, to be honest.  There's a fair number of impressions of the Lyr with the LCD-2, and consensus is that the combination sings, handling complexity effortlessly.
 
I'd look at the b22, but I'm not a DIY-er in any sense.  Also, I'm a fan of tube sound, so I think I'm going to stick with that.

If you're hearing congestion in high-end headphones, it usually comes from the source/amp.
 

 

[MacedonianHero]

If you're hearing congestion in high-end headphones, it usually comes from the source/amp.
 

With my T1/HD800/LCD-2/HE-6s, I hear no congestion with my Lyr....might be the USB? Do you have a CD player to run into your DAC via spdif? Or maybe the recording is well congested?

 

[tdockweiler]

I often get a congested sound with my Asgard and HD-650. It's only in specific music. A Ry Cooder song called "Lasidan" often gives me this impression. Often on this song it feels as if instruments often have too much weight to them and sound a bit un-natural. It often sounds just not very clear. The soundstage on my HD-650 with the Asgard is also not large, but kind of small. Strangely female vocals are great with the Asgard. Generally I like the Asgard with the HD-650, but some music sounds bad. My feeling is that the Asgard often adds too much bass to some songs.
 
I connected the HD-650 to my new E9 and it's way more neutral. The congested sound went away a bit and the soundstage increased by a lot. Vocals just aren't as good and the mids don't seem as forward as they are on the Asgard. Asgard sounds good, but I just prefer a more neutral amp. It's weird how when I use the HD-650 and the E9, the HD-650 feels a whole lot more clear and even kind of neutral. I don't get that impression with the Asgard. What I found strange is that the HD-600's soundstage is much larger than the HD-650's soundstage on the Asgard. Not sure if this is normal. When I removed the HD-650 from the Asgard and connected it to the E9, they were both about the same size (HD-600 still connected to the Asgard)!
 
Despite my problems with the Asgard, I still feel it  makes the HD-650 a tad more fun to listen to. On 90% of my music, the sound is fine.
 
 

 

[Shahrose]

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If you're hearing congestion in high-end headphones, it usually comes from the source/amp.
 

With my T1/HD800/LCD-2/HE-6s, I hear no congestion with my Lyr....might be the USB? Do you have a CD player to run into your DAC via spdif? Or maybe the recording is well congested?

Hey Pete. That rules out the amp I guess. I'd look at the components before it (or the recording as you suggested).
 

 

[sphinxvc]

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I'm drawn to the Lyr for "Moar Power" but this post tempers that temptation significantly. A seller on ebay was also very candid on his assessment of this amp, which cost him a quick sale. I'm starting to feel the b22 is the only place to go to put it beyond doubt.

 
I'm glad you didn't take this plunge.  I've tried the HD650s out of a Lyr set-up and I'd rather just stick with the FUN.  Meanwhile, the LCD-2s sounded much better out of the Lyr than they did with the GS-1, so I'm not surprised with Macedonian Hero's findings.  I might have a chance to try out HD650s with a 3CH B22 and RSA Apache soon - so I'll chime about those then.
 
And I'm also starting to think the HD650s might benefit from good ES9018-based DACs which tend to flesh out details well, might help the congestion issue.  Just a thought, FWIW, haven't tried it yet.