[Methadrol]

Does anyone have any experience with the following rig:  ipod > protector > balanced HD650?
 
Would a different headphone be more suitable if the ipod to protector is the only source/amp?

 

[olor1n]

sphinx, your reassurance means a lot given the gear you've owned and subsequently heard. I'm not sure if I can justify the investment in the upper echelons.
 
As I've mentioned to you, I'm constrained to using the Earth hdam in the Fun for overall balance in my setup, but it's simply too polite for my preferences with the HD650. I much prefer the dynamics, impact and layering presented by the ada4627-1b but there are instances where the infamous veil (particularly with the DHC cable) rears its head. I guess I'm after refinement of that sound, and I imagine a powerful tube amp may deliver that.
 
I've been content for a while to build a system around the HD650, but at this stage I'm looking at options (ss or tube) in the tier below amps like the b22. The M^3 is somewhat appealing but I fear it may not be a significant change.

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

sphinx, your reassurance means a lot given the gear you've owned and subsequently heard. I'm not sure if I can justify the investment in the upper echelons.
 
As I've mentioned to you, I'm constrained to using the Earth hdam in the Fun for overall balance in my setup, but it's simply too polite for my preferences with the HD650. I much prefer the dynamics, impact and layering presented by the ada4627-1b but there are instances where the infamous veil (particularly with the DHC cable) rears its head. I guess I'm after refinement of that sound, and I imagine a powerful tube amp may deliver that.
 
I've been content for a while to build a system around the HD650, but at this stage I'm looking at options (ss or tube) in the tier below amps like the b22. The M^3 is somewhat appealing but I fear it may not be a significant change.

If people show up as planned there should be an M^3 at the meet too.  I'll come back and post my impressions with the M^3 and B22 in about 2 weeks.

 

[sridhar3]

Quote:

And I'm also starting to think the HD650s might benefit from good ES9018-based DACs which tend to flesh out details well, might help the congestion issue.  Just a thought, FWIW, haven't tried it yet.

 
Thanks for the tips everybody.  I don't have a CD player on me, and I also don't have a different pair of headphones to try and see if the problem goes away (I don't think plugging IEMs into the Lyr is a good idea).  So there's no easy way for me to perform "diagnostics" to figure out which element is the problem.  I'm going to have to put some thought into how to change the transport and source.
 
A brief description of what I'm using: I'm running USB out from my Vaio F (Cardas Clear USB cable), into a Audio-gd NFB11 USB (Sabre32 ES9018).  From there, Audio Metallurgy GA-0 RCA IC into the Lyr (Amperex 6922) and then out to the 650s (via Zu Mobius v2).  My source files are all FLAC, out of Foobar 2000.  Actually, now that I think about it, I'm not using WASAPI or ASIO.  Would either of those help?
 
Edit: If I can scrounge up some cash in the next month or so, I'll see if I can grab the dock for the Zune HD.  My understanding is that the dock has a bit-perfect optical out.  With Windows Lossless files on there, that might be a way to get around the USB.  Although I'm sorta hoping that USB isn't the problem.  If that does end up being the case though, would a Halide Bridge or some other USB-to-S/PDIF converter be an effective workaround?

 

[taisho]

I received my 650s yesterday and I'm still burning them in. How many hours do they need to be burned in?
 

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

 
Thanks for the tips everybody.  I don't have a CD player on me, and I also don't have a different pair of headphones to try and see if the problem goes away (I don't think plugging IEMs into the Lyr is a good idea).  So there's no easy way for me to perform "diagnostics" to figure out which element is the problem.  I'm going to have to put some thought into how to change the transport and source.
 
A brief description of what I'm using: I'm running USB out from my Vaio F (Cardas Clear USB cable), into a Audio-gd NFB11 USB (Sabre32 ES9018).  From there, Audio Metallurgy GA-0 RCA IC into the Lyr (Amperex 6922) and then out to the 650s (via Zu Mobius v2).  My source files are all FLAC, out of Foobar 2000.  Actually, now that I think about it, I'm not using WASAPI or ASIO.  Would either of those help?
 
Edit: If I can scrounge up some cash in the next month or so, I'll see if I can grab the dock for the Zune HD.  My understanding is that the dock has a bit-perfect optical out.  With Windows Lossless files on there, that might be a way to get around the USB.  Although I'm sorta hoping that USB isn't the problem.  If that does end up being the case though, would a Halide Bridge or some other USB-to-S/PDIF converter be an effective workaround?

I think Roger Strummer said it best on the last page, take heed.

 

[LugBug1]

Quote:

What mods did you carry out with the V3?  Did you have an opportunity to hear the before and after effects?  Standard, I felt the V3 was more suited to low Z cans than the HD650s high z load, which tended to lean out and muddy the bass, standard, this amp always rolled off and muddy the lowest bass and treble extension.
 

I've never heard it standard no, I bought it with panasonic caps and tesla pcc88 tubes fitted, I use the original power supply but I've been tempted to get a little pinkie.
 
I dont think the bass of the 650's is bad by any measure it's just "warm" as opposed to tight, it could be that mine are the old type? Ive tried so many different materials on the drivers to tighten it up without loosing too much and whenever I feel it is tight, then it is too weak for my preference. (I'n not a basshead by the way ha ha)  
 
I'd also say that the bass is no different to my RS1i's in respect to tightness, so It could be me being hypercritical or it may be my source.    

 

[LugBug1]

In further response to the resolution and "the veil" of the 650's.
 
They were originally designed (correct me if I'm wrong) for the mp3 generation, an improved 600 but also different. Where as the 600's were designed to be used for classical producers, they also become very popular with anyone who wanted "the best" and I believe they were one of at the time. So Sennheiser made the 650's which were more music friendly and versatile in regards to what ever music.
 
Bearing in mind it was a time when people were starting to play low bit mp3's and so Sennheiser could see the future in this and was right that people would be wanting a high-end phone that was mp3 friendly. My point is that the 650's "veil" is to smooth over low bit, harsh recordings.
 
There is a lot of foam on the drivers, and this in my experience of experimenting with them is the cause of the veil. If you remove it, the veil is gone and the detail and resolution is tenfold. However, the problem with removing all of the foam is that there is spillage of the bass into the other frequencies. 
 
I've found that you can get a happy medium by adding a very small amount of the foam back, or similar material to find your preference.  
 
Of course a powerful high end amp with razer like precision will also break the veil.. but a little fiddling on with the drivers seems to me to be a more practical solution.. especially if you are a pauper like me ha ha.  
 
My tweeked 650's beat my recently purchased RS1i's in every area, but they wouldn't have without the tweeks. The 650's have huge potential with different sources, cables etc. It's the drivers that are special, there's nothing like them.
 
So my advise to anyone who has just bought some is to keep a hold and experiment, because I believe they are unbeatable in the sub £1000 market in regards to versatility and musicality. They are a masterpiece in the world of headphones.  

 

[tdockweiler]

I just bought some Canare cable and parts and am going to try to make my first cable myself. I ended up buying L-4E5C cable, which is a little thinner than the L-4E6C which I used on my DJ100. The cable was only $6 for 12 feet. I bought some extra for a K702 recable also. The only thing that adds to the expense is that I needed to buy the Sennheiser HPSC connectors. They're around $13-$16 each and I had to buy them from a place that didn't sell the cable.
 
I think in total I'll have paid under $20 without shipping. Not too bad. If it's even a slight improvement over the stock cable, I'll be happy. I was going to try Mogami cable too, but I really liked how the Canare cable made my DJ100 sound.
 
Hopefully it's not a huge pain to solder all those tiny wires to the connectors. It'll be even worse when I do the K702 recable and solder 2 wires to each post.
 
BTW my HD-650 seems to sound better every day. Maybe it's burning in while I listen to it. Somehow I never had a Sennheiser headphone that needed burn in before sounding good.
 
Someday I'd like to make a silver cable, but I'll wait since silver cable isn't cheap. I did it before and it was a pain to work with.
 
I also should mention that I tried to use some connectors from an old HD-650 cable, but I don't see how they can be used. It's all blocked off with plastic. No post or anything left to solder onto. Maybe Sennheiser changed the plugs to stop people from reusing them?

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

I just bought some Canare cable and parts and am going to try to make my first cable myself. I ended up buying L-4E5C cable, which is a little thinner than the L-4E6C which I used on my DJ100. The cable was only $6 for 12 feet. I bought some extra for a K702 recable also. The only thing that adds to the expense is that I needed to buy the Sennheiser HPSC connectors. They're around $13-$16 each and I had to buy them from a place that didn't sell the cable.
 
I think in total I'll have paid under $20 without shipping. Not too bad. If it's even a slight improvement over the stock cable, I'll be happy. I was going to try Mogami cable too, but I really liked how the Canare cable made my DJ100 sound.
 
Hopefully it's not a huge pain to solder all those tiny wires to the connectors. It'll be even worse when I do the K702 recable and solder 2 wires to each post.
 
BTW my HD-650 seems to sound better every day. Maybe it's burning in while I listen to it. Somehow I never had a Sennheiser headphone that needed burn in before sounding good.
 
Someday I'd like to make a silver cable, but I'll wait since silver cable isn't cheap. I did it before and it was a pain to work with.
 
I also should mention that I tried to use some connectors from an old HD-650 cable, but I don't see how they can be used. It's all blocked off with plastic. No post or anything left to solder onto. Maybe Sennheiser changed the plugs to stop people from reusing them?

Nice job! You saved a lot of money though DIY, and I have a feeling you'll get improvements over the stock cable if the Canare/Mogami is half-decent.
 
BTW, I would avoid silver unless you have *really* good equipment. Otherwise, it can make the HD650s sound worse...far too revealing, sometimes harsh, sometimes dry with a small soundstage. Copper (same as stock) in higher purity works better with the 650s for a wider range of setups. (Silver has the potential to sound better than copper aftermarket cables with a good setup behind it though). With the HD600s and especially the HD800s, silver gets on a little better.
 

 

[Feynman]

Seems really fun and alot cheaper to do a DIY cable and from what I've understood it is fairly easy as well. If I have it correctly you use a quad-cable, connect to off the cables to the ground and the other two to the left/right channel and then you are done. 
 
That Canare cable looks nice and the only extra thing you need is a furutech connector and two cardas sennheiser plugs. That will only be a total of around 50 bucks, seems like a fun project!

 

[LugBug1]

Quote:

 
BTW, I would avoid silver unless you have *really* good equipment. Otherwise, it can make the HD650s sound worse...far too revealing, sometimes harsh, sometimes dry with a small soundstage. Copper (same as stock) in higher purity works better with the 650s for a wider range of setups. (Silver has the potential to sound better than copper aftermarket cables with a good setup behind it though). With the HD600s and especially the HD800s, silver gets on a little better.
 

I'd agree with that, my homemade (I didnt make it) high purity copper cable is brilliant with the 650's. You get more of everything without the false highs or lows that silver can sometimes give. 
 
 

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

I'd agree with that, my homemade (I didnt make it) high purity copper cable is brilliant with the 650's. You get more of everything without the false highs or lows that silver can sometimes give. 
 
 

Yes, copper is excellent with the HD650s...they were designed with that material in mind since the stock is also copper (just a relatively low purity one). BTW, a small correction on your assessment of silver; it's actually copper that gives false highs/lows by colouring it. Silver reveals what your gear actually sounds like because it adds/removes much less than copper.
 
Also, one hasn't heard the true potential of the HD650's speed until they've heard it with a silver cable with a good setup.

 

[olor1n]

Wading through a lot of info at the moment but hoping someone here has had experience with the following amps and can comment on their synergy with the HD650 -
 
- WooAudio 2/6/6-SE
- Darkvoice 337
 
Which amp would present best bang for buck? Also particularly interested to know how the Lyr stacks up against these options when paired with the HD650.

 

[tdockweiler]

Well I had an interesting night. I've found something really disturbing about my HD-650 and swapping between various amps. It's a real shocker for me.
 
First thing I did was get out an old favorite, the Total Airhead. I wanted to see if it could drive the HD-650. It does with ease. When it's going over-voltage it will yell at you with it's blinking red light. When I had the K701 and OLD HD-600 years ago, it would constantly do this. I couldn't put the volume very high when I connected the old HD-600 to it. Someone at Headfonia suggested that the HD-650 could possibly be easier to drive than the old versions and they're maybe right. I used the Airhead for over an hour and it didn't blink the red light once. I could crank it super loud. I was really baffled by this. What the heck?!
 
It gets worse..one thing I noticed is that on the Airhead the mids were the most forward sounding compared to the Asgard and E9. In terms of sound clarity for the HD-650 I'd rank from best to worst as Airhead > E9 > Asgard. Yes, you got that right! Everything was so crystal clear on the Airhead. Then the Airhead offered the largest soundstage. The E9 was a very close second. Nearly the same size. They were so similar it was hard to tell.
 
If the Airhead wasn't "bad" enough, the terrible thing also offered the most treble! It almost made my silver screened HD-650 kind of bright.
 
I'm listening to the Airhead + HD-650 and it's like a whole other headphone. The E9 is far, far more neutral though, but the sound is less clear, but almost impossible to tell. I'm loving the more forward sounding mids on the HD-650. I always got this impression on my DJ100 when I felt it had perfect synergy with my Airhead!
 
Anyone use Headroom's full sized amps with the HD-650? Maybe they sound very similar. HD-650  just sounds so good out of this tiny Airhead. Never would have thought this and it actually has very good bass. Not lacking in any areas so far.
 
Yesterday I was complaining how on my HD-650 and E9 this Cyril Morin soundtrack (Valley of Flowers) sounded like a muffled mess on the HD-650 (and not the K702) and now it sounds far better and it's now more clear.
 
EDIT:
 
Can't get over how much brighter these are with the Airhead. Not in a negative way because I like it. I finally got the red light to blink and it was only during a very bass heavy song. This Airhead is holding up well! The mids now feel almost as forward sounding as the HD-598 mids. I think it's safe to say the Airhead isn't a neutral amp. Maybe I should get the Headroom Micro Amp (not the battery powered one) and try it out. I'm now almost impressed with the HD-650, but not quite...yet.