[LugBug1]

Quote:

I think the urge to label what we're hearing is what does us in. I now try to judge a headphone or any other bit of gear on a one-dimensional scale. How much do I like it? That has the advantage of not really implying some sort of tradeoff or decision. When we get into the "Too much treble, great mids, the soundstage was wide but not deep, bass was full but loose, not fast enough for such-and-such music..." kind of stuff it's no wonder it becomes impossible to make up our minds. Who knows whether "great mids" is more important that "deep soundstage", that probably varies from day to day.

Stick to simple A/B comparisons. Listen to all kinds of music on a K702, give it a good workout. Then listen to a similar mix of music on a HD650. Afterwards simply ask "Which one did I enjoy listening to more". And if you feel the urge to say anything with "but" or "except" in it (i.e. "The K702 was better to listen to but the trebles were harsh") then just slap yourself until you shut up and answer the question.

Which one, A or B, '702 or '650, AKG or Senn. Which one?

That makes a lot of sense to me. I would also add, "which one made me forget that I was listening for sound quality..?" That's always a sign of a good headphone. The 650's for me, make you forget about sound quality because nothing jumps out at you, or seems to be taken away. You can listen for hours and hours without going "wow! I really felt that bass" or in contrast "the treble was great but it's wearing me out now.."
  
 

 

[kitaraville]

Hi, I've been looking for headphones(silly my ofcourse i am . I mostly like to listen to bands like procupine tree, the mars volta, the smashing pumpkins, and sometimes even to electronic and breakbeat. I've done some research, but cant really decide wich ones to buy. My budget would be max300$.
 
I dont have an amp and they should be sounding good without one. If they are portable thats nice but its not a necessarity since i'll be mostly using them with my computer.
 

 

[LugBug1]

Quote:

Hi, I've been looking for headphones(silly my ofcourse i am . I mostly like to listen to bands like procupine tree, the mars volta, the smashing pumpkins, and sometimes even to electronic and breakbeat. I've done some research, but cant really decide wich ones to buy. My budget would be max300$.
 
I dont have an amp and they should be sounding good without one. If they are portable thats nice but its not a necessarity since i'll be mostly using them with my computer.
 

Hi and welcome, but you are on the 650 appreciation thread...
 
So I'm going to have to recommend the 650's! ha ha
 
Try the "buying new headphones" thread and you'll get a better response

 
 
 

 

[kitaraville]

Quote:

Hi, I've been looking for headphones(silly my ofcourse i am . I mostly like to listen to bands like procupine tree, the mars volta, the smashing pumpkins, and sometimes even to electronic and breakbeat. I've done some research, but cant really decide wich ones to buy. My budget would be max300$.
 
I dont have an amp and they should be sounding good without one. If they are portable thats nice but its not a necessarity since i'll be mostly using them with my computer.
 

Quote to my own posty, sorry for posting this here instead on the one made for these questions.
 
 

 

[Brent Hutto]

"which one made me forget that I was listening for sound quality..?" That's always a sign of a good headphone. The 650's for me, make you forget about sound quality because nothing jumps out at you, or seems to be taken away.

Yeah, when I got my HD650 and Asgard combo a couple of weeks ago my "listening for sound quality" lasted about a movement and a half of a Mozart piano concerto. It's been all music since that point.

And believe me, any gear that induces me to listen to a Shostakovich string quartet all the way through not once but twice in an evening must be some pretty engaging stuff. Of course I spent the next 24 hours looking over my shoulder like a protagonist from a Kafka novel but that never happened with speakers or with the HD595. I'm just sayin'...

 

[LugBug1]

Quote:

Quote:

"which one made me forget that I was listening for sound quality..?" That's always a sign of a good headphone. The 650's for me, make you forget about sound quality because nothing jumps out at you, or seems to be taken away.

Yeah, when I got my HD650 and Asgard combo a couple of weeks ago my "listening for sound quality" lasted about a movement and a half of a Mozart piano concerto. It's been all music since that point.

And believe me, any gear that induces me to listen to a Shostakovich string quartet all the way through not once but twice in an evening must be some pretty engaging stuff. Of course I spent the next 24 hours looking over my shoulder like a protagonist from a Kafka novel but that never happened with speakers or with the HD595. I'm just sayin'...
 

Ha ha I like it, Strange enough I'm actually listening to Shostakovich's Jazz suites right now! a lot mellower than his string qts though.
 
The 650's can even tame 20th Century Russia!      
 

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

I really think you need to give the 650's more time, they have a huge soundstage with the right source and are the most "naturally" neutral sounding headphone I've heard. They are used as monitor headphones worldwide for Classical, and of all music types Classical music requires natural acoustics for monitering. 
 

  Really?
 

 

[LugBug1]

 
Quote:

Quote:

  Really?
 

I believe so, they may be taken over by the 800's now though. The 600's were originally designed for classical producers in mind and then the 650's took over, It may be a slight exaggeration but when ever I see photos of recording studios in my classical magazines they appear to have 650's.  

 

[Fastlane]

I have owned mostly Sennheiser headphones over the years.  The HD580 and HD600 served me well for several years and I recently upgraded to the HD650. 
In keeping with the simple grading scale mentioned above, I like them a lot! 

 

[Kevin Brown]

 
Quote:

 
Same here. I did like the HD-650 a lot, but the bass kind of ruined it for me. I also wanted a larger soundstage and a more neutral sound. I ended up going with the HD-600, which sadly seems like a step down from the HD-650 in many ways, but at least it's more neutral. The HD-650 is definitely a lot more fun to listen to. If I ever find a deal on them I may buy another pair again. I think the HD-650 is a better headphone than the HD-600, but I just prefer the HD-600.
 
 

 
I personally find the HD650 more neutral:
 

 
See the 1st blue peak at 3 to 4.5 kHz?  I can hear that as an unnatural emphasis to male vocals and electric guitars.  And then the 2nd blue peak at about 15 kHz messes with snare drums and cymbals.  Maybe for some genres those peaks aren't as apparent, but for anything "rock" related, I don't think the HD600 is complimentary at all.
 
I tried to like the HD600, but frankly to me, its sins are worse than its benefits.  The HD650 on the other hand, yes, it's a dark headphone, but once you get used to the sound, I was amazed at how much detail is really there.
 
Someone mentioned the "fatigue factor" and out of all the headphones I've ever heard, the HD650 might be the least fatiguing out of them all.  The HD650 is a very easy headphone to listen to.  And IMO, it doesn't get harsh or fatiguing at all like most headphones I've heard (especially at higher volumes ,,, in short doses of course).
 
But everyone's ear are different too. 

 

 

[pp312]

 
Quote:

I think the urge to label what we're hearing is what does us in. I now try to judge a headphone or any other bit of gear on a one-dimensional scale. How much do I like it? That has the advantage of not really implying some sort of tradeoff or decision. When we get into the "Too much treble, great mids, the soundstage was wide but not deep, bass was full but loose, not fast enough for such-and-such music..." kind of stuff it's no wonder it becomes impossible to make up our minds. Who knows whether "great mids" is more important that "deep soundstage", that probably varies from day to day.

Stick to simple A/B comparisons. Listen to all kinds of music on a K702, give it a good workout. Then listen to a similar mix of music on a HD650. Afterwards simply ask "Which one did I enjoy listening to more". And if you feel the urge to say anything with "but" or "except" in it (i.e. "The K702 was better to listen to but the trebles were harsh") then just slap yourself until you shut up and answer the question.

Which one, A or B, '702 or '650, AKG or Senn. Which one?

 
Lots of common sense over here, folks! Get a bag now while it's cheap.
 
To be honest, those reviews that divide the frequency range into Lows, Middles and Highs leave me confused. I can't make those distinctions; to me it's the overall sound and how musical it is. It's the balance, with no frequency dominating; it's the ability of a phone to reproduce the timbre of stringed instruments and the bite of brass without hurting. As you imply, comments like, "It had more detail but the treble was a bit harsh" only reveal that the poster doesn't know what to listen for, that he's probably mistaking glare for clarity, that he hasn't listened to enough live music and doesn't know that every detail isn't supposed to stick out like a sore thumb. The few sane, guiding voices like yourself and Lunatique apparently aren't enough to turn the tide, as so many posters here are just bouncing all over the place with no clear vision, flat out supporting an industry that's burgeoning at a great rate--and no wonder.  

 

[prtuc2]

I do agree with pp312 what he said music can't define with a chart graph, define by the individual's liking.
 

 

[Kevin Brown]

Quote:

I do agree with pp312 what he said music can't define with a chart graph, define by the individual's liking.
 

 Yes, and the only reason why I looked up the freq spectra for the HD600 (vs HD650), was specifically because I could hear the unnatural emphasis being added.  I'm a musician, and I've been in a few bands over the years, and I know what a guitar and vocals are supposed to sound like. 

  I called that 1st peak a "midrange spike".  One person tried to argue that the HD600 had a smoother response up top than the HD650, so I showed him the freq spectra, that it echo'ed what I could hear, and he was surprised.  That 1st peak is there if you listen for it.  I listened to 2 different HD600's and I heard it on both.
 

 

[LugBug1]

I'm becoming more convinced that the hardcore 650 admirers are more music lovers than sound quality fanatics. That's how it should be! We are a more relaxed crowd, chilling with our 650's on ha ha. There's no sign of any sibilance here!
 
I'm chilling right now listening to a Beethoven string quartet, and I couldn't give a monkeys about the bass, treble or mids.
 
Just enjoying the music. (oh yes and writing this too..) 

 

[Brent Hutto]

You can also use EQ to create a low-Q bump or a dip around 4KHz on any reasonably neutral-sounding headphone and bring vocals and guitars "forward" or "back" quite perceptibly. If you're curious. It only takes 3-4dB bump to bring them "forward" or 3-4dB cut to move them "back".