[Shahrose]

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by attenuated 3db /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
Rolling the opa's in the FUN's dac output stage can add or reduce clarity in different parts of the frequency range.  It can also manipulate the presentation: layering, etc.  This is more than any EQ could do.  As far as I understand it, EQ will only adjust the overall balance of the frequency range.  The rest of your post makes sense, just wanted to clarify that though.
 

Exactly. Cables and opamps do more than just manipulate the frequency curve. I've rolled both as well as EQ'ed for years and I can tell you that EQ'ing is *not* the same as either.

 

[LugBug1]

I've mentioned this in another thread today, but just wanted to add it here as well. It's the foam modification and how much I'm pleased with it!
Tweaking here and there to an already classic design is of course personal and should only be done when you are fully read up on it!
 
But for me, the changes are for the better, much better! The removing of the foam from the back of the driver has opened up the sound and removed the veil. Its like polishing wood that hasn't.. well.. been polished for years! So much more clarity.
 
The bass has more impact, in-fact the whole spectrum has much more dynamism.
 
I've replaced the inner ear cup foam with very thin "mesh like" cloth from a scarf... This sounds a bit dodgy I know, but it works for me!  
 
They now have an even more open, dynamic sound signature.  
 
(my 650's are old and gathering dust that's why I've done this)
 

 
   

 

[Kiwikat]

Well my 650's came a couple hours ago.  I still can't get the stupid smirk off my face.  I got goosebumps almost instantly.  The soundstage is so different from the HD25-1's.  The bass is less punchy, but hits heavier.  The sibilance is also under almost complete control, whereas the HD25 can occasionally hurt my ears.  I can't wait until my E9 comes on friday.  The E7 at 60 barely plays my rock music loud enough with the 650's.  The sound quality, soundstage, and detail are all on a completely different level compared to the HD25.  Once they're broken in some more I'm sure they will sound even better.  I sense a blue dragon recable in its future too... (my wallet has passed out)
 
 
I'm soooooo excited to listen to it more!  This is head-fi! 

 

[attenuated 3db]

Exactly. Cables and opamps do more than just manipulate the frequency curve. I've rolled both as well as EQ'ed for years and I can tell you that EQ'ing is *not* the same as either.

Yeah, I acknowledge that it was an inexact, imprecise, maybe even outright erroneous use of the word "equalization" in this context. It's not just frequency response, there are things like phase relationships and other things (I have been out of high-end audio sales for over 30 years, so I am "rusty") involved in the sonic changes that accompany tube or op-amp "rolling." I made too broad a generalization sort of inadvertently, and regret it. I was just trying to help some fellow HD650 owner who seemed dissatisfied exclusively with their low-end performance without spending any more money by trying some free tweaks first. Mea culpa.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Quote:

Exactly. Cables and opamps do more than just manipulate the frequency curve. I've rolled both as well as EQ'ed for years and I can tell you that EQ'ing is *not* the same as either.

Yeah, I acknowledge that it was an inexact, imprecise, maybe even outright erroneous use of the word "equalization" in this context. It's not just frequency response, there are things like phase relationships and other things (I have been out of high-end audio sales for over 30 years, so I am "rusty") involved in the sonic changes that accompany tube or op-amp "rolling." I made too broad a generalization sort of inadvertently, and regret it. I was just trying to help some fellow HD650 owner who seemed dissatisfied exclusively with their low-end performance without spending any more money by trying some free tweaks first. Mea culpa.

I see what you were trying to say now and I can see that you're well-informed on the topic too.
 
I agree with you in that if one wants a cheap alternative or teaser to cable or opamp rolling, they can give EQ'ing a shot. It can provide *some* of the same changes in sound at no cost.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

I've mentioned this in another thread today, but just wanted to add it here as well. It's the foam modification and how much I'm pleased with it!
Tweaking here and there to an already classic design is of course personal and should only be done when you are fully read up on it!
 
But for me, the changes are for the better, much better! The removing of the foam from the back of the driver has opened up the sound and removed the veil. Its like polishing wood that hasn't.. well.. been polished for years! So much more clarity.
 
The bass has more impact, in-fact the whole spectrum has much more dynamism.
 
I've replaced the inner ear cup foam with very thin "mesh like" cloth from a scarf... This sounds a bit dodgy I know, but it works for me!  
 
They now have an even more open, dynamic sound signature.  
 
(my 650's are old and gathering dust that's why I've done this)
 

 
   

I'm glad you're enjoying the changes from the foam mod. I personally reverted back to stock after a few days of trying it. I felt the added clarity from the mod came at the expense of less bass quantity and occasionally sibilant upper treble.

 

[steveotron]

Pads have softened up, and the clamp isn't bad anymore.
 
Out of the HD 650, AH-D5000, K701, SR80, and all the other headphones I've owned up to this point, these are definitely my favorite. The Denons do hip hop and electronic better and AKGs better at certain elements of classical, for sure, but the HD 650 is the best all-rounder.
 
I was concerned at first about it being a "dark" and/or "warm" headphone (I think the latter better fits my impressions), but I've come to realize that it's probably my preference now.
 
I can definitely see myself sticking to these for a long time, and it probably won't be until I get out of grad school and have a "real" job before I try out something like the LCD-2.

 

[Shahrose]

The clamp is easy to fix without squashing the pads. Extend the earcups all the way out, bend the METAL strips only. Retract the earcups back to the desired length. Enjoy your new, loose headphones. I've done this with 4 pairs of HD600/650s. Takes a couple minutes, is reversible, and does not damage the headphone at all. Just make sure you don't bend the plastic portion of the headband...try to grab only the metal strip when bending.
 
You don't have to live with that awful clamp which will not only hurt your head but also destroy your expensive pads.

 

[steveotron]

Quote:

The clamp is easy to fix without squashing the pads. Extend the earcups all the way out, bend the METAL strips only. Retract the earcups back to the desired length. Enjoy your new, loose headphones. I've done this with 4 pairs of HD600/650s. Takes a couple minutes, is reversible, and does not damage the headphone at all. Just make sure you don't bend the plastic portion of the headband...try to grab only the metal strip when bending.
 
You don't have to live with that awful clamp which will not only hurt your head but also destroy your expensive pads.

 
I extended the metal, placed them between a stack of books overnight for a few nights, and also bent the metal just a bit. Having the pads soften up just a bit was great, though.

 

[pp312]

Just be aware in this rush to have the 650s gripping your head no tighter than a broken donut, that Sennheiser chose that pressure for a reason. Inner pressure affects bass, and to get the bass Sennheiser intended you need the inner pressure Sennheiser intended. Could be that in a few weeks you'll be bending that metal back in again. 
 
Actually it only takes around two weeks and the headband gradually releases to the point of ideal comfort, but some people either have fat heads or no patience, or else they're fatheads with no patience (back, back--I was just kidding!).

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

Just be aware in this rush to have the 650s gripping your head no tighter than a broken donut, that Sennheiser chose that pressure for a reason. Inner pressure affects bass, and to get the bass Sennheiser intended you need the inner pressure Sennheiser intended. Could be that in a few weeks you'll be bending that metal back in again. 
 
Actually it only takes around two weeks and the headband gradually releases to the point of ideal comfort, but some people either have fat heads or no patience, or else they're fatheads with no patience (back, back--I was just kidding!).

Zing!
 
 
Quote:

Quote:Originally Posted by pp312 /img/forum/go_quote.gif in another thread

And it goes without saying that since 6 is very close to 7, which is only 1 off 8, which again is only 1 away from 9, then 6 is really quite close to 9 when you think about it. In fact, practically the same thing.  

 
 
I must say I've enjoyed your work tonight. Your ability to troll others in a subtle and inoffensive manner is something I aspire for. Bravo sir!

 

[Morten]

A quick question that's probably been asked before: how do you fit the foam pads along with the earpads? If you lay the foam pads first, the earpads won't be able to 'click' in place.

 

[pp312]

 
Quote:

 
 
I must say I've enjoyed your work tonight. Your ability to troll others in a subtle and inoffensive manner is something I aspire for. Bravo sir!

 Actually it's "aspire to", since I'm in a gently pricking mood.

 
However, I do appreciate any and all compliments as they're so rare.
 
(But how come no-one voted for me recently as the most helpful person on Head-Fi after all this friendly, useful advice I give? T'ain't fair!) 

 

[Roger Strummer]

 
Quote:

I owned the HE-5 and HE-6 and my main amps were the M^3+Sigma11/Steps and the maxed out GS-1. I also tried the HE-6 through the Balanced amped output of my Buffalo32s. It's possible that they may have benefited from some more power, but the sound I was hearing from the HE-6 was pretty solid and likable.
 
They were better than the HD650s overall in SQ but not in all areas. The HE-6 had a more linear, grain-free and resolving treble, and significantly deeper and forceful, airy bass. However, the 650s imaged better and had better soundstage layering. The HE-6 produced larger aural images, as if the sound was emanating from large speakers or in a big hall, but it was closer to a wall of sound compared to the HD650s. I think the detail level was equal, especially when the HD650s were recabled. I found the HD650s to be better damped than the HE-6 and HE-5 too. For this reason, the 650s had more texture to the sound and especially PRAT, which meant that they were able to follow the pace of music better. This last point *might* be resolved with a more powerful amp though. I never got a chance to try them from say, a Beta or a speaker amp.
 
Then ofcourse, we have the terrible comfort of the orthos. Even some of the people that I see posting publicly about not having problems, have privately told me that they can't listen to them for too long. This was the main reason I sold mine.
 
The HD650 aren't the best at anything, but they're good at pretty much everything. That makes them special in my books.

BTW, I see you own the HD800...my favourite cans. The 7N silver recabled HD800s were the best I owned and it was a mistake selling them. I'll be repurchasing them somewhere down the road.

The 800 is definitely the headphone I cannot see myself without at least for the next 5 to 10 years, my favorite too! Maybe the K1000 is the only other one I've found so far that I could love so much, but find their hardness to drive a huge disadvantage, and their variable angling drives me nuts.
 
But it is very interesting what you mention about the HE6's, I wonder if it not that good soundstaging (relatively) is common to all orthos, since soundstaging isn't the LCD-2's or stock T50's strong forte either IME, meanwhile the 650 well amped have a very good soundstage with some great sound layering (just as you mentioned). They've really surprised me out of the Beta, I could easily see this combination (B22-650) being an awesome end of the road setup for many.

 

[jasonb]

Ambient electronic like Asura, Solar Fields, Carbon Based Lifeforms, and others is magical on the HD650's. it's sooooooo airy and open, and the bass is fuuuunnnn.