[sphinxvc]

Quote:

Time for an update now that I´ve burned these in for two days with my iPod during the night etc. By the way, man these sound bad from an iPod (just as they should with their specs) I was shocked how muddy they were. But to get to my actual current impressions now that I´ve listened to lots of different material with these...
 
I think these sound a lot like an out of head soundstage version of the Shure 530 I used to have. And by that I mean very high praise, as I easily prefered the Shure530 tonality over the LCD-2 and HD 800. So to comment on Bisayabois "Can't understand how one could prefer something over the HD650 (in it's price range)"... To be honest I really, really prefer these over all the high end dynamic headphones I´ve heard (including the T1, HD 800 and LCD2). The HD 650 tonality is just perfect to my ears, and it still has beautiful soundstaging. Don´t get me wrong, the current high price flagships do many things extremely well, but all in my experience have an extremely annoying flaw. The HD 650 has no such flaw. The only minus I´ve discovered is that they don´t sound nearly as good as the high price ones with low volume listening. But they are the only dynamic headphones I´ve tried in addition to the LCD2 that allow me to crank up the volume without getting any sort of listening fatigue (also known as the HD 800/T1/DT 880 SHRILL SIBILANCE OF HELL that prevents all attempts at higher volume listening).
 
That is a remarkable achievement. In all the headphones I´ve tried, I honestly think the HD 650 as an overall package sound the best. With the current low price, these are also extremely good value. I sincerely hope Sennheiser revisits the HD 650 design goal someday with a new product (as stated in the manual, easy listening musicality instead of the hardcore neutrality target of the HD 800). I would love to see the HD 800 ring drivers, angled, with the tonality of the HD 650. But until that happens, these are for me, the best headphones I´ve tried in the dynamic headphone world. I wouldn´t have expected to end up with these, as I specifically decided to go for the new praised flagships. Can´t wait to balance the cable so I can hear the full 2W per channel at 300ohm in pure class A that the Phoenix delivers Judging by the iPod test, these really, really like a lot of power to bring them alive. Amped properly, these is no veil, simply a glorious relaxing, but powerful sound. The bass strikes hard, highs are beautifully non-fatiguing and natural without being too recessed like on the LCD2. The midrange is a bit forward and warm, like on the Shure 530. 
 
PS: I also prefer the K701 over the current flagships I´ve tried, and those will probably end up my second dynamic headphones to complement these.

 
I think you just single handedly killed my desire to eventually try out flagships.  It's been said before that balanced HD650s in the right system can hold their own against any flagship, and I always took those comments with a grain of salt, but I'm slowly becoming a believer.  The more I read the more it makes sense: they do very little very wrong.  I don't think I'd ever spend $1K on a flagship unless it was perfect.  When you pay 3x the amount of the HD650s, you had better be getting perfection, or atleast very close to it.  
 
For as long as I'd have to compromise, I will stick with my HD650s & pick up a pair of K701s (which I loved when I demo'ed them - the soundstage is a must-try / another superb bang-for-buck).
 
I'm hoping to build myself a top notch DIY dac and amp within the next year; the Beta 22 is in my sights for going balanced.  I think a Beta 22 should be able to compare to a Pheonix, so I'm really looking forward to your impressions of them balanced in your set-up.  Also looking forward to demo a tube amp with the 650s at the next local meet.
 
PS have you tried the HE6?

 

[yianni]

anyone use a a schiit valhalla with their hd 650's? or is the asgard better?

 

[vrln]

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Quote:
 
I think you just single handedly killed my desire to eventually try out flagships.  It's been said before that balanced HD650s in the right system can hold their own against any flagship, and I always took those comments with a grain of salt, but I'm slowly becoming a believer.  The more I read the more it makes sense: they do very little very wrong.  I don't think I'd ever spend $1K on a flagship unless it was perfect.  When you pay 3x the amount of the HD650s, you had better be getting perfection, or atleast very close to it.  
 
For as long as I'd have to compromise, I will stick with my HD650s & pick up a pair of K701s (which I loved when I demo'ed them - the soundstage is a must-try / another superb bang-for-buck).
 
I'm hoping to build myself a top notch DIY dac and amp within the next year; the Beta 22 is in my sights for going balanced.  I think a Beta 22 should be able to compare to a Pheonix, so I'm really looking forward to your impressions of them balanced in your set-up.  I'd also like to try out the 650s with a good tube amp at the next New York head-fi meet (along with some flagships).
 
PS have you tried the HE6?
 

 
Unfortunately I haven´t tried the HE6. From what I´ve read it would probably be my favourite ortho. Would I ever consider it to be a HD 650 replacement? No, because the weight makes it unusable in my view. Comfort is very, very important in headphones if you ask me. All the current flagship orthos are like wearing a brick on your head. The only headphone I´ve heard that I liked more than the HD 650 is a STAX system. My recommendation is that if you intend to go for the 1k price range models, go STAX instead. They have no fatal flaw either, but the ultra clean sound isn´t to everyones liking... Even with a STAX system, I would keep a HD 650 as the sound is very different. I went for the dynamic flagships expecting more than I got - maybe the flaws that annoyed me won´t annoy you as much, but if you are really fond of the HD 650 tonality, prepare to be disappointed if you are looking for perfection
 
I´ve heard only good things of the Beta22, sounds like a great plan! The Beta22 (if self-built) and the Phoenix are the rulers of the solid state world when you consider in value IMO.
 

 

[Roger Strummer]

Quote:

I´ve heard only good things of the Beta22, sounds like a great plan! The Beta22 (if self-built) and the Phoenix are the rulers of the solid state world when you consider in value IMO.
 

I have a 3 channel Beta22 right now, and the Beta22-650 combination is very very very good. It minimizes many of the 650 shortcomings (better transient response, better dynamics, less 3 blob soundstage and bigger) which results in a headphone that is very hard to beat if you are looking for that warm presentation.
 
Also what you mention about high volume listening with the 650 is true from my experience. They excel at higher volume listening thanks to their "darker side of neutral" presentation, but at low to moderate levels they are not that good (where I easily prefer something along the lines of HD600/800), they literally tell you to get the volume up, which for me was actually a disadvantage.

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

I have a 3 channel Beta22 right now, and the Beta22-650 combination is very very very good. It minimizes many of the 650 shortcomings (better transient response, better dynamics, less 3 blob soundstage and bigger) which results in a headphone that is very hard to beat if you are looking for that warm presentation.
 

Sweet.

 

[mikenike]

Heads up for those looking to get a pair at HeadRoom. They are temporarily out of stock, and won't get new ones until mid-March. I just received an e-mail on their availability status.
 
Getting really frustrated now. Thinking I should cancel and order it elsewhere.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

 
Unfortunately I haven´t tried the HE6. From what I´ve read it would probably be my favourite ortho. Would I ever consider it to be a HD 650 replacement? No, because the weight makes it unusable in my view. Comfort is very, very important in headphones if you ask me. All the current flagship orthos are like wearing a brick on your head. The only headphone I´ve heard that I liked more than the HD 650 is a STAX system. My recommendation is that if you intend to go for the 1k price range models, go STAX instead. They have no fatal flaw either, but the ultra clean sound isn´t to everyones liking... Even with a STAX system, I would keep a HD 650 as the sound is very different. I went for the dynamic flagships expecting more than I got - maybe the flaws that annoyed me won´t annoy you as much, but if you are really fond of the HD 650 tonality, prepare to be disappointed if you are looking for perfection
 
I´ve heard only good things of the Beta22, sounds like a great plan! The Beta22 (if self-built) and the Phoenix are the rulers of the solid state world when you consider in value IMO.
 

I prefer the HD650s to the HE-6. Like you, the weight and comfort of the orthos is just unbearable for long sessions (for my scalp, not my neck). I also thought the HD650s bested them in sound in *some* areas, so it's not like the HE-6 embarrass them in the SQ department either.

 

[Roger Strummer]

Quote:

I prefer the HD650s to the HE-6. Like you, the weight and comfort of the orthos is just unbearable for long sessions (for my scalp, not my neck). I also thought the HD650s bested them in sound in *some* areas, so it's not like the HE-6 embarrass them in the SQ department either.

This got me really curious, in what aspects do you feel the 650 are better?

 

[Shahrose]

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This got me really curious, in what aspects do you feel the 650 are better?

I owned the HE-5 and HE-6 and my main amps were the M^3+Sigma11/Steps and the maxed out GS-1. I also tried the HE-6 through the Balanced amped output of my Buffalo32s. It's possible that they may have benefited from some more power, but the sound I was hearing from the HE-6 was pretty solid and likable.
 
They were better than the HD650s overall in SQ but not in all areas. The HE-6 had a more linear, grain-free and resolving treble, and significantly deeper and forceful, airy bass. However, the 650s imaged better and had better soundstage layering. The HE-6 produced larger aural images, as if the sound was emanating from large speakers or in a big hall, but it was closer to a wall of sound compared to the HD650s. I think the detail level was equal, especially when the HD650s were recabled. I found the HD650s to be better damped than the HE-6 and HE-5 too. For this reason, the 650s had more texture to the sound and especially PRAT, which meant that they were able to follow the pace of music better. This last point *might* be resolved with a more powerful amp though. I never got a chance to try them from say, a Beta or a speaker amp.
 
Then ofcourse, we have the terrible comfort of the orthos. Even some of the people that I see posting publicly about not having problems, have privately told me that they can't listen to them for too long. This was the main reason I sold mine.
 
The HD650 aren't the best at anything, but they're good at pretty much everything. That makes them special in my books.

BTW, I see you own the HD800...my favourite cans. The 7N silver recabled HD800s were the best I owned and it was a mistake selling them. I'll be repurchasing them somewhere down the road.

 

[Paganini Alfredo]

Quote:

Heads up for those looking to get a pair at HeadRoom. They are temporarily out of stock, and won't get new ones until mid-March. I just received an e-mail on their availability status.
 
Getting really frustrated now. Thinking I should cancel and order it elsewhere.

Hmm...
I'll sell you my pair. PM me if you're interested.
 

 

[mikenike]

Quote:

Hmm...
I'll sell you my pair. PM me if you're interested.
 

Dang. After my post, I canceled it and went to J&R.
 

 

[canoners]

Dang. After my post, I canceled it and went to J&R.
 

How much did you buy from J&R?

 

[mikenike]

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Quote:

Dang. After my post, I canceled it and went to J&R.
 

How much did you buy from J&R?

$365, but talked in getting it for $350, free shipping. It was $360 at Headroom, and backordered til mid-March.

 

[attenuated 3db]

Quote:

 
I am sure I will get used to the sound. When I got my UE-11's I thought they sounded somewhat lifeless and flat compared to the Westone 3's I got a month prior but now I can't listen to any other IEM's but my UE-11's.
 
The Radio Shack SPL meter was the one I was looking at. I was researching how to measure the SPL of headphones and I saw some guy on here put cardboard over the headphones and put a hole in the middle for the SPL meter. How do you take your readings?
 
I have the new HD650 because I just bought them new and see the white inside them. I was looking at after market cables but I can't ever see paying $400-600 on a cable. If you recommend a specific one, let me know, send me a link or something and I will check it out. I would have to demo one somewhere to see if it makes a real improvement. I'll reserve bass judgment till I get more hours on the 650's.

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I'd suggest you give your ears time to adjust first. You may just be used to exaggerated bass and may find yourself hearing other things as bloated instead after some time with the HD650 (like what jasonb has experienced and what I've found myself as well).
 
Fwiw, I prefer a warmer presentation so I choose to colour the sound towards this spectrum by employing the Moon hdam in my dac. The copper cable balances the resulting congestion through the refinement it brings so what I'm left with is great synergy for my taste. Again, I DON'T ADVOCATE SPENDING BIG BUCKS if you want to see what a cable may do for you. If you want to go down this path make sure you are mostly happy with your existing chain to begin with (as funds may be better spent addressing those deficiencies first).
 
The cable I got was custom made by a prominent Head-Fi DIYer. I think it sounds great and for a small fraction of the cost of boutique cables. I'm not going to disclose who made it though, as I was unhappy with other aspects of the transaction.

 
Before spending any money on aftermarket cables to address a specific perceived deficiency in only one area of the HD650s ability to suit your own personal musical tastes (i.e., an enjoyment of good bass reproduction, which means different things to different people), I would take a look at this no-cost tutorial first:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/wiki/tutorial-on-how-to-equalize-headphones
 
I don't know whether people realize it or not, but fancy cables, tube or op-amp "rolling" (which includes substituting various A-gd HDAMs) are all just various ways to equalize in different ways the signal that is ultimately presented to your ears.  But they all cost something in terms of additional equipment or components.  Playing with equalization via free software, as the tutorial explains, might easily satisfy whatever dissatisfaction you have with the HD650's low end, but do it in a deliberate, scientific fashion aimed specifically at measuring and correcting (to your tastes) the lower frequencies.  Doesn't cost a penny, and it makes more sense, IMHO, than the semi-random substitution of active components like tubes or op-amps or cables (which aren't even active components) to achieve a specific "sonic signature" (an expression of audiophile jargon that I have never really cared for, but what the heck, I'm running out of synonyms for various things at this point in this post).

 
FWIW - I love my HD650s low, mid and high-frequency response without any software EQ or other significant tweaks.  Good amplification is a necessity, but the all-tube headphone output of my inexpensive Maverick Audio A1 integrated amplifier does a great job driving the 650s to my ears, although I've never been able to personally compare it to any other headphone amplifier in the remote region of the world where I reside.

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:
Originally Posted by attenuated 3db /img/forum/go_quote.gif

 
Before spending any money on aftermarket cables to address a specific perceived deficiency in only one area of the HD650s ability to suit your own personal musical tastes (i.e., an enjoyment of good bass reproduction, which means different things to different people), I would take a look at this no-cost tutorial first:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/wiki/tutorial-on-how-to-equalize-headphones
 
I don't know whether people realize it or not, but fancy cables, tube or op-amp "rolling" (which includes substituting various A-gd HDAMs) are all just various ways to equalize in different ways the signal that is ultimately presented to your ears.  But they all cost something in terms of additional equipment or components.  Playing with equalization via free software, as the tutorial explains, might easily satisfy whatever dissatisfaction you have with the HD650's low end, but do it in a deliberate, scientific fashion aimed specifically at measuring and correcting (to your tastes) the lower frequencies.  Doesn't cost a penny, and it makes more sense, IMHO, than the semi-random substitution of active components like tubes or op-amps or cables (which aren't even active components) to achieve a specific "sonic signature" (an expression of audiophile jargon that I have never really cared for, but what the heck, I'm running out of synonyms for various things at this point in this post).

 
FWIW - I love my HD650s low, mid and high-frequency response without any software EQ or other significant tweaks.  Good amplification is a necessity, but the all-tube headphone output of my inexpensive Maverick Audio A1 integrated amplifier does a great job driving the 650s to my ears, although I've never been able to personally compare it to any other headphone amplifier in the remote region of the world where I reside.

 
Rolling the opa's in the FUN's dac output stage can add or reduce clarity in different parts of the frequency range.  It can also manipulate the presentation: layering, etc.  This is more than any EQ could do.  As far as I understand it, EQ will only adjust the overall balance of the frequency range.  The rest of your post makes sense, just wanted to clarify that though.