[Flisker]

So I thought that the 650's can't get much better once at level of something like Woo WA2 for softer sound signature or Felix Elise for tighter one, but it turns out that Euphoria's pushing it even further. There seems to be infinite scaling with these cans

Going from Felix Elise to Euphoria seems to improve on basically all aspects of the sound, soundstage is so big that I can't believe that it's still HD650.

If you are looking for headphones through which to consistently enjoy your music (as opposed To creating the ultimate measurable hifi experience in your home), you could hardly do better than a pair of properly driven* HD650.

100%, tried most of the famous headphones, except for the 3-4k+ summit-fi, and I'm still using 650's.

 

[Flisker]

Not sure if this was answered (backtracking but couldn't get shortlisted responses) - looking to get a HD650 as my main HP, would a Xduoo MT-602 bring out wonders or what would be the best $200 option if ever?

For around 200$, I think Schiit Asgard 3 is unbeatable, at least to my ears, when talking about 650 pairings. That is some crazy amplifier for the price.

Past Asgard 3, you would be spending some big bucks to get significant upgrade.

 

[cirodts]

So I thought that the 650's can't get much better once at level of something like Woo WA2 for softer sound signature or Felix Elise for tighter one, but it turns out that Euphoria's pushing it even further. There seems to be infinite scaling with these cans

Going from Felix Elise to Euphoria seems to improve on basically all aspects of the sound, soundstage is so big that I can't believe that it's still HD650.

100%, tried most of the famous headphones, except for the 3-4k+ summit-fi, and I'm still using 650's.

I totally agree with you, just rendered a rs325x grado.

 

[Strat1117]

Not sure if this was answered (backtracking but couldn't get shortlisted responses) - looking to get a HD650 as my main HP, would a Xduoo MT-602 bring out wonders or what would be the best $200 option if ever? Also, is there a diff between those made in Ireland and Romania? Eyeing one that's Made in Ireland with the latest box (no longer having the heavy luxury box inside).

I don’t know the xduoo line, so no opinion on that, but do consider the Asgard mentioned above, or a used Lyr or a used 1st gen burson soloist or sl (class A SS, super stiff power supply). Personally, I like the soloist for the 650, and the slightly warmer SL or tubes for the 600, but it’s all a matter of taste. Each amp will give you a slightly different flavor and there’s no right answer; pick the flavor you like. The only “must” is a power supply capable of dealing with big voltage swings into a 300 ohm load. Many less expensive amps don’t quite pass that test, even if they sound great with less demanding cans. Imho, and that of many on this thread, the Sennheisers are worth the effort.

I would be remiss not to mention that, although I have not personally tried OTL tube amps, many whose opinions I respect swear that an OTL tube amp is the one true path to nirvana with the 300 ohm Sennheisers.

YMMV.

 

[Odin412]

For around 200$, I think Schiit Asgard 3 is unbeatable, at least to my ears, when talking about 650 pairings. That is some crazy amplifier for the price.

Past Asgard 3, you would be spending some big bucks to get significant upgrade.

Interesting! I don't think I've tried my 650 with my Asgard 3, but now I'll have to try that combo.

 

[Flisker]

Interesting! I don't think I've tried my 650 with my Asgard 3, but now I'll have to try that combo.

I will add, that Asgard 3 is warm-ish amp, in terms of signature. But it's not the usuall kind of warm, it's just... non-fatiguing yet detailed and with amazing bass. I wouldn't really try it because why would I try 200$ amp when I got much more expensive tube amps. But I decided to try Jotunheim 2 and while buying it, friend got into audio also, so I recommended him to try the Asgard as starting point. When both amps arrived to my place, I thought, lets just try the Asgard and I was blown away. It's just insane value.

And I did not like Jot 2 at all, except for the bass, that's great for sure on that amp.

So I basically sold Jot 2 few weeks later and bought the Asgard 3 myself just because... it's so good and so cheap.

 

[kolisten09]

@jasswolf and @Flisker - Thanks! will keep that in mind to get the Asgard. Though these are class AB amps right? Much has been said that the HD650 sounded best with tubes hence considering the Xduoo options but will check these out.

 

[eswng679]

I will add, that Asgard 3 is warm-ish amp, in terms of signature. But it's not the usuall kind of warm, it's just... non-fatiguing yet detailed and with amazing bass. I wouldn't really try it because why would I try 200$ amp when I got much more expensive tube amps. But I decided to try Jotunheim 2 and while buying it, friend got into audio also, so I recommended him to try the Asgard as starting point. When both amps arrived to my place, I thought, lets just try the Asgard and I was blown away. It's just insane value.

And I did not like Jot 2 at all, except for the bass, that's great for sure on that amp.

So I basically sold Jot 2 few weeks later and bought the Asgard 3 myself just because... it's so good and so cheap.

The Jot 2 sounds best balanced. If you compared the two amps single ended, then it would make sense that you preferred the Asgard 3.
Having owned both - the Jot 2 with Bifrost 2 --> HD650 is a good alternative to tubes with regards to veil and dynamics. It makes my HD650s "slam" in ways the Asgard 3 could only dream of doing.

Regardless for $249, Asgard 3 is excellent value.

 

[jasswolf]

@jasswolf and @Flisker - Thanks! will keep that in mind to get the Asgard. Though these are class AB amps right? Much has been said that the HD650 sounded best with tubes hence considering the Xduoo options but will check these out.

Both handle the voltage swings that can be seen in impedance curves for the 6XX/650/600. Asgard is going to be a lot cleaner in signal, and isn't fatiguing as it does so.

With tubes you're usually rolling through a few in an effort to get the harmonics right, and that's trickier to do. Asgard 3 is just a powerhouse single-ended all-rounder at its price. Schiit's most recent line-up really is impressive.

 

[Flisker]

@jasswolf and @Flisker - Thanks! will keep that in mind to get the Asgard. Though these are class AB amps right? Much has been said that the HD650 sounded best with tubes hence considering the Xduoo options but will check these out.

Yes HD650 does sound better with tube amp, but not just any tube amp. I would rather use Asgard 3 than Woo WA2 with stock tubes for example, or Elise with stock tubes.

And once you start looking at those tube amps with awesome tubes, you're looking at not-so-awesome price tags, not to mention the pain of getting those amazing tubes.

Unfortunately I did not hear Bottlehead Crack, which with it's legendary status is surely a good pick also, but again, well assembled Crack is 600$+ I think, nice 5998 power tube is like 150+ driver tube and you're looking at 800$ +-. So that's quite far from Asgard 3.

The Jot 2 sounds best balanced. If you compared the two amps single ended, then it would make sense that you preferred the Asgard 3.
Having owned both - the Jot 2 with Bifrost 2 --> HD650 is a good alternative to tubes with regards to veil and dynamics. It makes my HD650s "slam" in ways the Asgard 3 could only dream of doing.

I did try balanced of course.

And 100%, the slam is crazy on Jot 2, Asgard 3 can't match it in bass department. But I couldn't deal with the treble, it was way too hot for my taste.

 

[arar]

Can anyone say if the Rebel Amp would do the whole voltaga swing handling that the 650 is so into? It's still the one solid state amp that I really want to try.

 

[eswng679]

Can anyone say if the Rebel Amp would do the whole voltaga swing handling that the 650 is so into? It's still the one solid state amp that I really want to try.

Tagging @hottyson - our resident Head-Fi Rebel Amp guru. I believe he has 2 in his setup.

I had it for a few months and it paired well with the HD650 via Bifrost 2 SE. When compared to the Jot 2, it had cleaner bass (less slam) but still very satisfying. Treble was a lot more "airy" than on the Jot 2 (even with balanced) - definitely an improvement. The midrange and soundstage were standouts to me. The Jot 2 tends to present a wall of sound but with the Rebel, it has a much wider stage. The mid-range plays to strength of HD650s over Jot 2 as well. Overall, its a great match for the 650s.

Again the differences for all are minor - with the exception of sound stage. You can definitely hear the difference between Rebel and Jot 2.

It never really did it for me but it is probably due to the types of music I listen to. I rarely listen to orchestra or classical but am more into EDM, modern pop etc. The bass on the Jot 2 was more satisfying, despite being less clean. Ultimately, I had more fun on the Jot 2 than the Rebel - however, I cannot deny its technical capabilities and that it is a good amp.

 

[hottyson]

Tagging @hottyson - our resident Head-Fi Rebel Amp guru. I believe he has 2 in his setup.

arar is asking the right questions as headphones react to amps entirely different when driving different headphones. Even though I do own the Sennheiser Drop HD6XX, it is my least favorite headphone of my very large collection. Being in the minority here, I don't enjoy the HD6XX on ANY solid state headphone amplifier. The only amp that I enjoy the HD6XX on is a tube amp, which is a Ray Samuels Emmeline The Raptor with certain tubes. But, even then, it would be a rare occurrence when there is pretty much any other headphones that I would go to first. So, I am probbably not the guy to give arar advice in this case.

The Schiit Jotunheim 2 that you mentioned, which I also own, often places in my top five amp pairings for most headphones and sometimes beats out the Rebel Audio RebelAmp. The Jotunheim 2 is a very consistent amplifier in terms of hardly ever sounding poor with a headphone. The gain switch actually turns the amplifier into a completely different sounding beast, so it is as if one is getting two amps for the price of one. It is one of my most highly recommended amplifiers as it will most likely make the owner happy with most of their headphones. The Schiit Jotunheim 2 is also selling at a very low price for all of the raw power, performance, and features that one is getting per dollar.

 

[Odin412]

I will add, that Asgard 3 is warm-ish amp, in terms of signature. But it's not the usuall kind of warm, it's just... non-fatiguing yet detailed and with amazing bass. I wouldn't really try it because why would I try 200$ amp when I got much more expensive tube amps. But I decided to try Jotunheim 2 and while buying it, friend got into audio also, so I recommended him to try the Asgard as starting point. When both amps arrived to my place, I thought, lets just try the Asgard and I was blown away. It's just insane value.

And I did not like Jot 2 at all, except for the bass, that's great for sure on that amp.

So I basically sold Jot 2 few weeks later and bought the Asgard 3 myself just because... it's so good and so cheap.

I have both the Asgard 3 and the Jotunheim 2, and while I enjoyed the HD 650 with the Asgard 3 I actually preferred in with the Jotunheim 2. Both are amazing amps, especially for the price.

 

[Strat1117]

arar is asking the right questions as headphones react to amps entirely different when driving different headphones. Even though I do own the Sennheiser Drop HD6XX, it is my least favorite headphone of my very large collection. Being in the minority here, I don't enjoy the HD6XX on ANY solid state headphone amplifier. The only amp that I enjoy the HD6XX on is a tube amp, which is a Ray Samuels Emmeline The Raptor with certain tubes. But, even then, it would be a rare occurrence when there is pretty much any other headphones that I would go to first. So, I am probbably not the guy to give arar advice in this case.

The Schiit Jotunheim 2 that you mentioned, which I also own, often places in my top five amp pairings for most headphones and sometimes beats out the Rebel Audio RebelAmp. The Jotunheim 2 is a very consistent amplifier in terms of hardly ever sounding poor with a headphone. The gain switch actually turns the amplifier into a completely different sounding beast, so it is as if one is getting two amps for the price of one. It is one of my most highly recommended amplifiers as it will most likely make the owner happy with most of their headphones. The Schiit Jotunheim 2 is also selling at a very low price for all of the raw power, performance, and features that one is getting per dollar.

Horses for courses. I’ve never actually heard a pair of 6xx, but I’m willing to accept arguendo that they are the same as the 650, because who eats to open THAT can of worms. In any event, I’d be curious to know specifically what solid state amps you’ve tried with your 6xx that you find so unappealing, since my experience is quite different (granted, my 650s are slightly modified and I am using a $1,000 Class A SS amp at the back end of a mid-five figure system to drive them). The point is that there is a reason the 580/600/650 (I own a pair of each) have been around so long, and that reason is certainly NOT because they’re the worst. Indeed, as I’ve tried much of the competition at up to 4 times the price, and I always end up selling those and keeping the Sennheisers. I don’t Maybe I’m just a fanboy…

In any event, I don’t mean to be defensive. I would never even try to tell you what you should and shouldn’t like, any more than I would try to convince you that Ben and Jerry’s New York Super Fudge Chunk is a fundamentally better value than Carvel soft vanilla. This hobby is about pleasure, and the only one you need to please is yourself - but, most respectfully, I do think you’re missing out if you don’t know that a properly fed pair of 650’s is a great listen.

Enjoy!