[megabigeye]

PS - weirdly, never could enjoy my PM-3s...much as I wanted to! To my ears, they were lifeless/boring. Had the same issue with AQ Nighthawk Carbons. Again, lots of folks really like both of these cans. To my way of thinking, personal sound signature preferences and hearing differences between listeners definitely impact the user experience/choices. This is what makes this hobby so interesting!

Ha! I also tried for something like two years to get into the PM-3, but always felt disappointed. It wasn't till I tried them on my hybrid amp setup (Bottlehead Quickie + Quicksand combo-- both sadly discontinued) that I really started to enjoy them. Like you said, with solid state they're lifeless and boring, and I thought about selling them (something I never do). With tubes they're totally different. My current "favorite" (until tomorrow ).

 

[RickB]

Ha! Because I've never tried the Sundara? I've always stayed away from HiFiMan because of all the stories about poor build quality. Allegedly they're better now than they used to be, but I don't know that personally. They're not a company I admire.

Pricing with the HD 650/6XX is... strange. The 650 is still technically a $500 headphone, but the 6XX is the same thing for more than 50% off. At $500, the step up to the DT 1990 seems like a no brainer, unless you really love the Sennheiser sound. At $220, it's a little trickier.

Amazon very frequently sells the HD650 for $400 or less, and has done so for years (not contradicting anything you wrote, just pointing that out).

 

[Lolito]

fitted mine with Yaxi Stpad2 with my 3d printed adapter, and i really like what i hear. As you can see, the insides is made of 2 material, alcantara type on the backside and protein leather on front. Bass is tighter while retaining the clarity of the mids. I once tried the newphantasia leather ones and immediately took them off as everything just became muddy and boomy.

With this setup, i also find it more comfortable than the stock velour btw. So you guys might want to try this in case you want to try out new pads.

Where can you get that 3d prnted adapters?? I´m very interested. I also got those new phantasia pads, they are terrible.

 

[Spartacus09]

Where can you get that 3d prnted adapters?? I´m very interested. I also got those new phantasia pads, they are terrible.

https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:4034309

Not sure if thats the exact one but looks close

 

[dakanao]

I'll offer the dissenting opinion from the rest of the thread... The HD 650 is (in my opinion, obviously) a very good headphone, but it's not the best unless you really like it's particular signature. Other than soundstage and mids, the Beyer DT 1990 is superior in every aspect.

DT 1990 compared to HD 650:
Bass = more extended, slightly less mid-bass emphasis, more detailed/textured, more exciting
Mids = slightly recessed in comparison, slightly less enticing; not as noticeable if you're not making a direct comparison
Treble = more extended, more exciting; maybe fatiguing if you're sensitive
Dynamics = much greater than HD 650
Detail retrieval = much greater than HD 650
Soundstage = about the same as HD 650; DT 1990 with tubes has larger soundstage than HD 650 on solid state
Overall signature (with "B" pads) = very mild "V"-to-neutral with treble emphasis.

To me, the DT 1990 is simply a more satisfying listen.

Even the Oppo PM-3 (discontinued, unfortunately) is better than the HD 650 in some ways.

PM-3 compared to HD 650:
Bass = way more extension, less mid-bass emphasis, more detailed/textured, warmer, highly seal-dependent
Mids = on solid state, HD 650 is clearly better; on tubes PM-3 is comparable to HD 650 on solid state
Treble = more extended, but softer than HD 650
Dynamics = comparable
Detail retrieval = comparable on solid state, better on tubes
Soundstage = HD 650 wins on solid state; PM-3 with tubes has larger soundstage than HD 650 on solid state
Overall signature = on solid state = downward sloping / dark; on tubes = warm / neutral.

To me, the PM-3 on tubes is a more satisfying listen than HD 650 on solid state (unfortunately my tube setup doesn't work well with HD 650, so it's not a perfect comparison). In fact, for my purposes/taste, PM-3 on tubes does warm/inviting better than HD 650 does.

I don't mean to disparage the HD 650 at all. It's a really great headphone and I love it, but saying that there's no clear upgrade is, in my opinion, simply not true. It depends on what you're looking for. If you want "the HD 650 but better," then maybe it's the best. I dunno. What does that even mean? If there are specific things that you want to improve, then there are absolutely better headphones for a lot less than $1,000.

Honestly, the PM-3 was very compressed when I had them. The sound didn't have much dynamic range at all. Everything, including vocals, just sounded distant. Granted, it was being driven by a Geek Out 450 (450 mw max output) so it may be underdriven.

However, it's marketed as being for portable use, so I don't get why it would be underdriven by the GO 450.

The Audeze EL-8 open, was closer to the natural sound of the HD650 than the PM-3 through the exact same amp, but it still wasn't as dynamic as the HD650.

Beyerdynamic DT-150 gets fairly close in the mids and it has better dynamic range, better bass extension and impact, but the treble isn't as refined and natural as the HD650.

I actually think the Aurisonics Rockets IEMs with some micropore tape with a few needle pokes in it (makes the upper-mids/lower treble smoother) are the closest sounding to the HD650. The timbre and FR-response are pretty equal.

 

[Majestyk]

Is there any difference between the original 6XX made in Ireland vs. current 6XX model made in Romania?

They're still using the old dies for the 6XX so they should be the same. Drop even still uses some of the same photos as they did when they were selling the Ireland pair. Also, the Romania box/outer sleeve is the same except it has a made in Romania sticker. It also still has the code 20140120REV01, which has been on every Sennheiser 600/650/6XX box from 2014 to 2019. The new 600 & 650 boxes no longer have that code because they were retooled.

 

[Majestyk]

The 6XX also still comes with the hinged box. The 650 doesn't come with any box...just cheap cardboard packaging. It's interesting how Drop does not advertise it. Perhaps they made an agreement with Sennheiser, so it wouldn't undermine the 650.

 

[Majestyk]

In a word, Yes. At least that has been my experience. I've had both, and the non-Ireland ones where slightly darker. This is not subjective opinion but fact.

Also came across this:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/solving-the-hd650-mystery.8026/

Currently have the 'real' 650 and 6XX (both Ireland models) and there is also a slight difference. Can't say one is better than the other, just that the FR is a little different in the treble region. Could be unit variance, or pad thickness, I don't know.

I don't think any of the information posted in the above thread pertains to the 6XX. Only the retooled 650...which was sorted out. As for a difference in sound, I just bought a pair of 6XX and they sound very similar to my 600's. Yet I have a pair of HD650's from 2013 (which have less than 2 hours playing time) and these are definitely darker with less treble and more bass. I also had both the Ireland & Romania 660S and the Ireland were darker/smoother sounding. So it's surprising to hear your Romania pair of 6XX are darker.

 

[RickB]

My HD6xx definitely sounds less bright than my 2013 HD600.

 

[WilcoRoger]

The 6XX also still comes with the hinged box. The 650 doesn't come with any box...just cheap cardboard packaging. It's interesting how Drop does not advertise it. Perhaps they made an agreement with Sennheiser, so it wouldn't undermine the 650.

If more than 110k units sold (HD6xx) is not considered "undermining" I don't see how a hinged box would undermine the HD650

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

Today, I am listening to Bossa Nova music in Tidal with my HD650 and BHC. It's a perfect match. Made in Heaven. The warm, intimate sound signature makes you feel like you are in a Club in Sao Paolo, Brasil.

 

[dakanao]

If you want to improve on the HD650, you can try putting some felt pads, and cut them in small pieces (use some thin adhesive to make it stick) on the bare plastic spots in the backside (that is exposed when you take the grill of)

Basically this takes care of the slight 5khz ringing, making the sound even more refined because there's less housing resonance.

 

[Majestyk]

If more than 110k units sold (HD6xx) is not considered "undermining" I don't see how a hinged box would undermine the HD650

From a marketing standpoint I think it's strange that they include that box with the HD6XX. Most people don't even know they are getting it and they would have spent the $220 regardless. Likewise, the lack of hinged box with the 650's has not affected the reviews on Amazon.

My only other guess, as to why they don't promote the box, is because they'll probably one day stop production of them. (Or maybe they already have)

 

[Majestyk]

My HD6xx definitely sounds less bright than my 2013 HD600.

That makes sense.

 

[TooFrank]

Today, I am listening to Bossa Nova music in Tidal with my HD650 and BHC. It's a perfect match. Made in Heaven. The warm, intimate sound signature makes you feel like you are in a Club in Sao Paolo, Brasil.

Tonight, I am listing to the new Matt Berninger in Tidal with my HD650 and ifi micro iDSD BL. Really, really a good match too