[Odin412]

ZMF Aeolus. I also own the HD650.

+1 on that recommendation. I love my HD 650 and I also love my Aeolus.

 

[Spartacus09]

I'll offer the dissenting opinion from the rest of the thread... The HD 650 is (in my opinion, obviously) a very good headphone, but it's not the best unless you really like it's particular signature. Other than soundstage and mids, the Beyer DT 1990 is superior in every aspect.

Interesting, any reason for recommending that over the hifiman sundara?
From my previous research before I found the 6XX they had seemed to be a better quality listening choice at almost half the price when compared directly to each other (though you do sacrifice a little durability/premium feel as well as acessories)

 

[HiFiHawaii808]

+1 on that recommendation. I love my HD 650 and I also love my Aeolus.

How does this headphone sound with a crack?

 

[megabigeye]

Interesting, any reason for recommending that over the hifiman sundara?
From my previous research before I found the 6XX they had seemed to be a better quality listening choice at almost half the price when compared directly to each other (though you do sacrifice a little durability/premium feel as well as acessories)

Ha! Because I've never tried the Sundara? I've always stayed away from HiFiMan because of all the stories about poor build quality. Allegedly they're better now than they used to be, but I don't know that personally. They're not a company I admire.

Pricing with the HD 650/6XX is... strange. The 650 is still technically a $500 headphone, but the 6XX is the same thing for more than 50% off. At $500, the step up to the DT 1990 seems like a no brainer, unless you really love the Sennheiser sound. At $220, it's a little trickier.

 

[megabigeye]

@Spartacus09,
I guess my main point that looking for something "similar but better" than the HD 650 is very vague. What do you want to improve upon; what would you want to keep the same; how important is each of those aspects to you? How you answer those questions will determine whether or not there's something better. But an across the board "nothing's better" is a little silly.

I wanted something that could do aggressive music better than the HD 650, and I found that and more in the DT 1990.

 

[OneOddPhoton]

Is there any difference between the original 6XX made in Ireland vs. current 6XX model made in Romania?

In a word, Yes. At least that has been my experience. I've had both, and the non-Ireland ones where slightly darker. This is not subjective opinion but fact.

Also came across this:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/solving-the-hd650-mystery.8026/

Currently have the 'real' 650 and 6XX (both Ireland models) and there is also a slight difference. Can't say one is better than the other, just that the FR is a little different in the treble region. Could be unit variance, or pad thickness, I don't know.

 

[Spartacus09]

@Spartacus09,
I guess my main point that looking for something "similar but better" than the HD 650 is very vague. What do you want to improve upon; what would you want to keep the same; how important is each of those aspects to you? How you answer those questions will determine whether or not there's something better. But an across the board "nothing's better" is a little silly.

I wanted something that could do aggressive music better than the HD 650, and I found that and more in the DT 1990.

Wuh? I don't think I said 'nothings better' I was asking for recommendations on what folks considered upgrades for the 6xx/650.
Thats a fair question though, I'd have to think on what I want improved.

 

[megabigeye]

In a word, Yes. At least that has been my experience. I've had both, and the non-Ireland ones where slightly darker. This is not subjective opinion but fact.

Also came across this:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/solving-the-hd650-mystery.8026/

Currently have the 'real' 650 and 6XX (both Ireland models) and there is also a slight difference. Can't say one is better than the other, just that the FR is a little different in the treble region. Could be unit variance, or pad thickness, I don't know.

I'm skeptical/confused/intrigued by this post. How do we know what he's measuring isn't just due to unit variation? He says something about averaging, but is he averaging different headphones, or different measurements from the same headphone? It's a little vague.

He also goes on and on about the new "strange" looking HD 650s and how they sound subtly but noticeably different, and then concludes with don't worry about it, they pretty much all sound the same.

 

[CaptainFantastic]

Sennheiser confirmed the Ireland and Romania HD-600, HD-650 and HD-660S are identical. The change is just the mold, aesthetics. Per Sennheiser the drivers are still made in Ireland at the same factory. End of story. Anything else is imagined or driver variation that would also exist between two Made in Ireland units.

 

[megabigeye]

Wuh? I don't think I said 'nothings better' I was asking for recommendations on what folks considered upgrades for the 6xx/650.
Thats a fair question though, I'd have to think on what I want improved.

Sorry, my post was not clear. I was trying to reply in the car while also holding a conversation with my wife (don't worry. I wasn't driving!).

Some people want a recommendation for an upgrade from the HD 650 and they mean, "what do others prefer?" Some people ask the same question but mean, "what's like the HD 650, but better?" It seemed like the latter were the answers people were giving. My "nothing is better" comment was directed at those answers, not you.
I apologize for the confusion.

 

[Sennheiser]

In a word, Yes. At least that has been my experience. I've had both, and the non-Ireland ones where slightly darker. This is not subjective opinion but fact.

Also came across this:

https://www.superbestaudiofriends.org/index.php?threads/solving-the-hd650-mystery.8026/

Currently have the 'real' 650 and 6XX (both Ireland models) and there is also a slight difference. Can't say one is better than the other, just that the FR is a little different in the treble region. Could be unit variance, or pad thickness, I don't know.

The driver production line for the 600 series and most of Sennheiser’s headphones are in Ireland.

 

[Ficcion2]

My "nothing is better" comment was directed at those answers, not you.
I apologize for the confusion.

I think only one comment suggested that the HD650 is the end all be all which is obviously subjective but also a rather objective stance when offering suggestions.

I was just listening to my HD6xx and changing immediately to the DCA Aeon 2 shows a lot detail and oomph that the 6 line is missing much like you noted with your DT 1990.

And even more detail and dynamics is gained when I switch over to my Verite Open.

You really can’t beat the HD mids tho and that makes them keepers.

 

[megabigeye]

I think only one comment suggested that the HD650 is the end all be all which is obviously subjective but also a rather objective stance when offering suggestions.

I was just listening to my HD6xx and changing immediately to the DCA Aeon 2 shows a lot detail and oomph that the 6 line is missing much like you noted with your DT 1990.

And even more detail and dynamics is gained when I switch over to my Verite Open.

You really can’t beat the HD mids tho and that makes them keepers.

Maybe I was misreading some of the other posts. I thought people were suggesting that there is no real upgrade from the HD 650.

 

[GearMe]

I'll offer the dissenting opinion from the rest of the thread... The HD 650 is (in my opinion, obviously) a very good headphone, but it's not the best unless you really like it's particular signature. Other than soundstage and mids, the Beyer DT 1990 is superior in every aspect.

DT 1990 compared to HD 650:
Bass = more extended, slightly less mid-bass emphasis, more detailed/textured, more exciting
Mids = slightly recessed in comparison, slightly less enticing; not as noticeable if you're not making a direct comparison
Treble = more extended, more exciting; maybe fatiguing if you're sensitive
Dynamics = much greater than HD 650
Detail retrieval = much greater than HD 650
Soundstage = about the same as HD 650; DT 1990 with tubes has larger soundstage than HD 650 on solid state
Overall signature (with "B" pads) = very mild "V"-to-neutral with treble emphasis.

To me, the DT 1990 is simply a more satisfying listen.

Even the Oppo PM-3 (discontinued, unfortunately) is better than the HD 650 in some ways.

PM-3 compared to HD 650:
Bass = way more extension, less mid-bass emphasis, more detailed/textured, warmer, highly seal-dependent
Mids = on solid state, HD 650 is clearly better; on tubes PM-3 is comparable to HD 650 on solid state
Treble = more extended, but softer than HD 650
Dynamics = comparable
Detail retrieval = comparable on solid state, better on tubes
Soundstage = HD 650 wins on solid state; PM-3 with tubes has larger soundstage than HD 650 on solid state
Overall signature = on solid state = downward sloping / dark; on tubes = warm / neutral.

To me, the PM-3 on tubes is a more satisfying listen than HD 650 on solid state (unfortunately my tube setup doesn't work well with HD 650, so it's not a perfect comparison). In fact, for my purposes/taste, PM-3 on tubes does warm/inviting better than HD 650 does.

I don't mean to disparage the HD 650 at all. It's a really great headphone and I love it, but saying that there's no clear upgrade is, in my opinion, simply not true. It depends on what you're looking for. If you want "the HD 650 but better," then maybe it's the best. I dunno. What does that even mean? If there are specific things that you want to improve, then there are absolutely better headphones for a lot less than $1,000.

Just goes to show how we all hear differently...only really liked my Beyers with tubes to warm them up / take the edge off.

Besides my Senn lineup sell-off, the other major purge I did was my Beyer lineup (660, 770, 880, 990, T1). Both sell-offs were due to me moving away from OTL amps to SS and Hybrid amps -- got tired of tube rolling/matching/etc.

Kept the 880s (nostalgia) and eventually picked up Amiron Homes (pleasant surprise).

FWIW, apples-to-apples dollarwise, the 880s really don't get much playing time...the 6XXs get a lot of playing time.

To my ears, the Senn 6 series has a naturalness...organic timbre...etc that the Beyers don't have. The Amiron gets closer to this for me than my previous Beyers did but still not like the 6 series does.

Haven't heard the 1990s but, from what I've read, sounds like they are more detailed/energetic/edgy (similar to 990s?) than the Amirons. Guessing I'd have to get an OTL amp again (990s were often painful on SS) to truly enjoy these which hasn't been the case for the Amirons or the 6XX or the 660S.

Bottom line for me, if I'm playing my whole library on 'shuffle', the HD650/6XX has been and continues to be my headphone of choice.


PS - weirdly, never could enjoy my PM-3s...much as I wanted to! To my ears, they were lifeless/boring. Had the same issue with AQ Nighthawk Carbons. Again, lots of folks really like both of these cans. To my way of thinking, personal sound signature preferences and hearing differences between listeners definitely impact the user experience/choices. This is what makes this hobby so interesting!

 

[CaptainFantastic]

The driver production line for the 600 series and most of Sennheiser’s headphones are in Ireland.

Thanks for commenting Sennheiser.

I am sure that I speak for many in the community when I say: please keep your production in the EU. I know you are having a lot of success with the recent 560S which is made in China. I hope this will not make you push more production to China.

The community values products made in the EU, just as Americans like their Made in the USA Schiit, ZMF, Audeze, Woo, etc. Even if (and this is highly debatable but not for discussion here) you can achieve the same quality elsewhere, I think you have a lot to gain long term by remaining a Made in Europe brand, at least for the audiophile grade products. In fact, I am hoping that based on what we've experienced this year many companies will consider bringing back more and more operations and that Sennheiser is one of them.