[jimmers]

I am experiencing a weird issue with my HD650s. When playing games on my computer or watching movies/shows randomly what I can only describe as the sound you hear when your ears pop happens in the left side of my 650s and the sound seems to fade out for a few seconds and then returns to normal. Any idea what it could be?

Update this has been going on a couple weeks and just now the right can start randomly doing it when it hasn't before. I'm a loss what it could be.

You don't mention what amp(s) you are using,
is it only on the one amp? are other headphones are OK in your setup? If so which ones.
Extra information might help someone to assist you, give as much as you can.

Personally I have used my HD650 phones for more than 8 years on a number of amps with no weirdies.

 

[castleofargh]

Only if the amp specs give the power available for the impedance of your headphones.
My headphones vary from 8 Ohm (DT100) to 600 Ohm (HD400) as far as I know both have an efficiency of ~94 dB @ 1 mW so for 110dB SPL would need 40mW,
the HD400 @ 40mW would need ~ 5V rms which is starting to push it for some battery amps even though it only needs 8 mA rms, so OK for SET OTL tube amp
the DT100 @ 40mW even though it only needs ~ 56mV rms it would need ~ 70 mA rms which is beyond some IC output amps

e.g.Grado RA1 headphone amplifier (DIY = CMOY) would struggle with either extreme, as would most mobile phones; but should be happy with a 50 Ohm headphone of the same efficiency.

edited for clarity (?)

p.s. dB/mW is not a thing, it implies a linear relationship (it's a logarithmic one), dB @ 1mW does have meaning

well of course the max power specs given for an amp will be into a specific load. they're irrelevant values for headphones with a vastly different impedance. I hope most audiophiles already know that when shopping for an amp.

and I agree that dB @1mW is better as it avoids giving the idea that if you use 2mW you get twice the dB number(which wouldn't make sense). I blame my own laziness and will go edit that right away.

 

[castleofargh]

I think I'm starting to understand. So, would it be safe to say that the impedance of the headphones, as well as the voltage and current capabilities of the amp are all factors?

it's an electrical circuit so Ohm's law applies and all is of course related. you can draw a very simplified circuit with the amp feeding the headphone. you just have to remember that almost all the standard specs concern sending a 1kHz tone into the circuit and only that. at other frequencies the impedance might be different for both the amp and the headphone, and so will everything else. we leave it at 1kHz because we expect the rest to still fall relatively close, and TBH, it's usually the case. but to get a more complete and accurate view of what's going on, we would need many more measurements. what we get in those specs is really just a general guide so the consumer can guesstimate his electrical needs and find the amp that will probably do the trick objectively. subjectively you're still on your own ^_^.

 

[compddd]

You don't mention what amp(s) you are using,
is it only on the one amp? are other headphones are OK in your setup? If so which ones.
Extra information might help someone to assist you, give as much as you can.

Personally I have used my HD650 phones for more than 8 years on a number of amps with no weirdies.

Using a JDS Labs Element on Windows 10 via USB. I have a pair of HD558s I could try. It did the popping sound and fade out even when nothing was playing through the headphones last night. Couldn't be a driver issue could it? That leaves the either the HD650s or the Element but if it did it without anything playing I'm thinking something is wrong with the HD650s. Should I try dismantling them and cleaning them out? I've only had them since Jan 2018.

 

[jimmers]

Using a JDS Labs Element on Windows 10 via USB. I have a pair of HD558s I could try. It did the popping sound and fade out even when nothing was playing through the headphones last night. Couldn't be a driver issue could it? That leaves the either the HD650s or the Element but if it did it without anything playing I'm thinking something is wrong with the HD650s. Should I try dismantling them and cleaning them out? I've only had them since Jan 2018.

To me it doesn't sound like a headphone fault, I can't think of a mechanism that would make them pop, fade out and come back again and the fact that it did it with nothing playing backs that up. Something in the power supply for the amp could conceivably cause that kind of effect.
If you have a source like a phone or DAP you could try plugging that into the analog inputs of the Element to eliminate PC and USB from the mix, and if you have another amp (or the DAP or phone can power the HD650) you could eliminate the Element and it's power supply.

I hope you find the cause and it's the cheapest to fix

edit - possible mechanism.
Looking at the JDS photo the Element amp looks like it's another, close to, TI LME49600 reference design.
The 16V AC power in is dual half-wave rectified to +ve and -ve rails,regulated to +/- 15V, if one rail has a bad connection somewhere then when it breaks there would be DC to the HD650 (pop) drop in output due to lack of voltage then as connection makes again normal sound is restored.

Not saying this is what is happening, just a possible mechanism.

 

[baltasar]

I started my HD650s experience using my dac/amp pioneer u05. I tried for amplification both stereo jack and xlr (the xlr gave the best result - 300mw)
For portable use I tried the fiio A5. I haven't tried any other portable amp, but for its size is quite powerful.
For the last week I have the Schiit Valhalla 2 and I'm using it compined with pioneer dac. Indeed, that is some serious Schiit :-D

I'm thinking of replacing pioneer u05 with pro-ject dac box rs. I haven't tried any dac with texas instruments chip, so if you have any experience I would appreciate your opinions.

 

[compddd]

To me it doesn't sound like a headphone fault, I can't think of a mechanism that would make them pop, fade out and come back again and the fact that it did it with nothing playing backs that up. Something in the power supply for the amp could conceivably cause that kind of effect.
If you have a source like a phone or DAP you could try plugging that into the analog inputs of the Element to eliminate PC and USB from the mix, and if you have another amp (or the DAP or phone can power the HD650) you could eliminate the Element and it's power supply.

I hope you find the cause and it's the cheapest to fix

edit - possible mechanism.
Looking at the JDS photo the Element amp looks like it's another, close to, TI LME49600 reference design.
The 16V AC power in is dual half-wave rectified to +ve and -ve rails,regulated to +/- 15V, if one rail has a bad connection somewhere then when it breaks there would be DC to the HD650 (pop) drop in output due to lack of voltage then as connection makes again normal sound is restored.

Not saying this is what is happening, just a possible mechanism.

So I could try getting a new power brick for the Element and see if that fixes it? Or are you saying there could be a bad connection somewhere inside the Element itself?

 

[jimmers]

So I could try getting a new power brick for the Element and see if that fixes it? Or are you saying there could be a bad connection somewhere inside the Element itself?

I'm just saying that is a possible cause. You need to get elimination tests done, if it points to the Element it could be in the power brick, its cable/plug or inside. I can't really be more specific I'm afraid.

 

[Deftone]

Im absolutely certain i had a HD650 around 2014/15 that sounded like it had a little bbc dip. The HD650 and 6XX from 2017 onwards sound more agressive and fatiguing. I cant find any information about it though apart from these quotes from another forum;

"The mod is applied to the current HD650 / HD6XX. The 2015 and before to ??? vintage of HD650 seemed slightly different where I completely removed both front and back foam pieces to get the transient response I wanted."

"Heck, the HD650 (early veiled version) was not needed either. The later HD650s seem to have been tuned more and more back toward the HD600. The best HD650 was 2014-2015 vintage. The latest 2016-2017 version, that seemed to coincide with the Massdrop HD6XX, has the best transient response (little more rise around 5kHz, but higher 3rd order, no need to remove damping on either side). I am convinced there have been changes over time. Photos of the internals and measurements bare this out."

It would explain why i enjoy my current 660S as much as i did with a 2015 650 its not as shouty as current but i have no measurements to back it up.

 

[DavidA]

Im absolutely certain i had a HD650 around 2014/15 that sounded like it had a little bbc dip. The HD650 and 6XX from 2017 onwards sound more agressive and fatiguing. I cant find any information about it though apart from these quotes from another forum;

"The mod is applied to the current HD650 / HD6XX. The 2015 and before to ??? vintage of HD650 seemed slightly different where I completely removed both front and back foam pieces to get the transient response I wanted."

"Heck, the HD650 (early veiled version) was not needed either. The later HD650s seem to have been tuned more and more back toward the HD600. The best HD650 was 2014-2015 vintage. The latest 2016-2017 version, that seemed to coincide with the Massdrop HD6XX, has the best transient response (little more rise around 5kHz, but higher 3rd order, no need to remove damping on either side). I am convinced there have been changes over time. Photos of the internals and measurements bare this out."

It would explain why i enjoy my current 660S as much as i did with a 2015 650 its not as shouty as current but i have no measurements to back it up.

I have a HD650 from 2014, HD6XX from 2017 and have access to a HD660S from 2018 and a HD650 from 2017.

My friend who owns the 2017 HD650, other friend who owns the HD660S and I think they are the same as my HD650 from 2014, switching pads makes no difference.

All of us hear my HD6XX is a bit different from the 2017 and my 2014 HD650, all of us hear it as a bit brighter, more extended highs and the bass is a touch leaner, maybe even a touch more detailed.

HD660S is brighter than the 2014 HD650, 2017 HD650 and HD6XX, the bass is also leaner/cleaner and way more detailed. The mids is where the HD660S falls a bit behind the HD650/HD6XX to my friends and I, but it is also dependent on the amp used.

 

[SilverEars]

I have a HD650 from 2014, HD6XX from 2017 and have access to a HD660S from 2018 and a HD650 from 2017.

My friend who owns the 2017 HD650, other friend who owns the HD660S and I think they are the same as my HD650 from 2014, switching pads makes no difference.

All of us hear my HD6XX is a bit different from the 2017 and my 2014 HD650, all of us hear it as a bit brighter, more extended highs and the bass is a touch leaner, maybe even a touch more detailed.

HD660S is brighter than the 2014 HD650, 2017 HD650 and HD6XX, the bass is also leaner/cleaner and way more detailed. The mids is where the HD660S falls a bit behind the HD650/HD6XX to my friends and I, but it is also dependent on the amp used.

I agree mids is where 660S falls behind. I don't like the upper-mid blunting they did with 5k boost following. Presence region is cut out, and pushing back crucial sound information. This actually helps highly compressed music such as pop to blunt it so that fhe trble doesn't get bothersome with slight 5k to cause impression of not completely dulling the sound or reducing transparency. The 300 ohms interacts much better with amping for at least the bass and the overall dynamics.

I've been pondering if there have been revision, but realized that there probably wasn't. But, I won't rule out the slight variations in response from unit to unit. I've noticed this with HD600. I heard 2 brand new units and one of them sounded brighter in the upper-mids and the other closer to 6XX.

Also, the pads did have an update, and it was stated that pads gotten lengthier, and we all know that makes a difference in sound as the sig gets warmer as the pads become more and more flattened.

Another variable are amps. My current amp just drives them significantly better, and the 6XX just responds much quicker than the amp I had years ago with the 650. I recall the 650 being a bit warm and sluggish in response, but I realize it was due to the amp.

With this said. We all think the output impedance of amp should be 8th of the headphone's. Bottle head crack is an exception. I think the high impedance work no problem with 650 as it still sound good without sounding muddy or warm with improved bass quantity and response.

I think it being OTL without transformers causes such sound. OTL tend to have a cleaner sound to them out of tubes, but still has that interesting tube sound that helps the dynamic driver imaging.

 

[SP Wild]

Yeah, something about tube amps and my HD650. Whenever I crave some HD650 flavour, it's always served with a tube sauce.

I think in ways the tube helps the HD650 breathe better in some frequencies.

Unlike with the eyes, where depth perception is an absolute function of stereoscopic vision.

Depth perception in hearing is less about stereoscopic hearing. The function of having two ears is panning location, i.e. directionality not depth. Although having two sources of information to compute depth is still better than one. The primary function of two ears does not change. Pinpointing sound in a two dimensional plane.

You can tilt your head sideways to get a true up down reference. You only know if a sound is coming above or below is if you have a databank of the sound in your memory. Otherwise without this databank, you can never deduce if a sound is above, below or at ear level.

It is this databank that gives you depth perception. How a known sound would sound if reverberating in a certain environment...learned and stored in our databank of memories, that gives us a perception of depth.

The head on your body is an ingrained environment. Only a known sound can be computed bouncing from our shoulders in certain angles give up down location. A sound you are unfamiliar with cannot give this information.

Learned information from environment gives depth perception. A known sound is required. To be able to compute high frequency and transient energy loss as sound travels through atmosphere is what gives depth perception. The ability to compute reverberation from different environments help to pinpoint a sound source. You can still hear depth with one ear. It's just harder to pinpoint the location.

Back to tubes. Tubes do two things in my opinion that replicate natural sound. Sound is mostly recorded with a mike right up against the instrument. Often times closer than the musicians ears. To then play that sound through a headphone is akin to an acoustic guitar player playing the instrument while holding the guitar up to his ears... unnatural sound is a result.

Tubes then will 'debur' the transient edges giving a natural sounding treble extension. This transient information deburing also naturally decays hi frequency energy, in a manner not unlike atmosphere, and therefore helps in spatial recognition.

The second thing that tubes do, is allow an older driver design to more easily track the electronic signal. Creating less white noise distortion...white noise lending itself to more grain in the sound.

It's like deburing edges on a cylinder head...or porting heads on an engine. Removing rough edges so the airflow is better and the engine breathes more effectively. And so the HD650 breathes better and can produce a more spacious sound in certain frequencies.

Some of this is my opinion and some of this is absolute fact. Can you figure out which is what?

 

[jimmers]

... Some of this is my opinion and some of this is absolute fact. Can you figure out which is what?

Nope


I think it's mainly the former (?)

 

[themuna]

Hey everyone, looking for advice. I'm really happy with my hd650. But i'm finding it lacking bass... I'm not experienced and it makes sense for me that it's hard to do sub bass for open style headphones, but reading reviews it seemed that they had much more bass than it has.
I'm powering them with a Magni 3.
I love the mids and the comfort of the headphones. Should I look at a different amp for it? Should I look for a different headphones?

If they're new, let them burn in and let your ears adjust. If you'd like to try to EQ them, you can do so. But yeah, you may want to try something else. Apparently some older Hifiman models do bass really well, especially sub bass.

 

[MacMan31]

Hey I'm looking to get a portable DAC/amp such as the Fiio K3 which has a 2.5mm balance headphone jack. Does anyone know where I can get a cable for the Sennheiser 600 series which ends in a 2.5mm connector?