[DavidA]

Pads compress slightly over time, and the clamp force loosens. I wonder how much that might play into peoples' perceptions. Assuming comparison between a new 6xx and older 650.

The switching ear pads didn't make a difference for me but I did bend both so the clamping force is quite light and when I measured the ear pads they are almost identical in dimensions (+/- 1mm at the most in height, openings, etc), but I'd still consider the differences as manufacturing tolerance.

 

[WilliamLeonhart]

Gonna plug the HD6xx into a tube amp cloned from the Little Dot mk4 to see if anything changes

 

[Stabby]

Yes, YMMV. I tried a small sample of DACs (R2R 11, Mojo, RHA Dacamp, and SDAC) and found the warmer, smoother Mojo and SDAC paired better with the strengths of the CTH and HD 6XX. Also, I was surprised that I didn’t like the R2R 11 DAC as much as the preceding two DACs - while considered warm, it’s slightly brighter than the SDAC and Mojo. I felt the SABRE dac based RHA Dacamp was the worst pairing of the bunch - it’s a more neutral to slightly bright DAC. Again these are comparative, subjective opinions and each of the DACs may be better in a different scenario (e.g. I think the R2R 11 as dac and amp is the best one of the group paired with a Hifiman Sundara).

I'm not sure if DAC really makes a significant difference, as long as you have a good quality one. Did you volume match?

 

[Anaz]

I'm not sure if DAC really makes a significant difference, as long as you have a good quality one. Did you volume match?

I don’t have the gear to measure volume so my results are just an objective conclusion from listening over several days - eg on a couple of occasions I listened to all of Toni Braxton’s Sex and Cigarettes album thru each DAC and gauged how I liked the sound (LOL it’s a good album but luckily only 7 songs). The DACs I have use different designs and DAC chips so I think that is why there is a discernible difference. I also read reviews of the DACs but I don’t believe my judgement wasn’t clouded by them.

 

[DavidA]

I'm not sure if DAC really makes a significant difference, as long as you have a good quality one. Did you volume match?

How noticeable different DACs will sound is a combination of one's hearing (also experiences), source files (MP3/FLAC/genre/etc), amp (quality and matched to headphone) and headphone/speaker (HD800/SR009 would probably easier to notice differences than the HD650/6XX which would be easier than ear buds that come with phones.

 

[Allanmarcus]

I set up my amps to allow for easy switching so I could A/B test. I also built a switchbox for the headphones, so I can wear one set of headphones, switch one box for DAC output, and one box for headphone input. Works really well. Level matching is always an issue. For me with the hd6xx, and YMMV, I could hear some differences between the mainline and the crack. The black widow 2 was very close to the mainline, and the Magni 3 was right up there. The crack is very tube dependent. It was smoother, with a little heavier bass. I sort of felt the BW2 and the mainline had more detail. The magni3 was just a smidgen behind in detail. The BW2 is a $1200 amp, and the Magni $100. the BW2 is not 12 times better. To me it’s maybe 5% better. For some songs, mostly rock and pop, I could hear very little to no difference between Magni, BW2 and mainline. The crack was always smoother, and not in any sort of bad way.

So, what’s this all mean? Get a mimby/Magni3 stack and your there. Get a crack or similar if you like smooth. Anything more and you are chasing rainbows.

Similar results with my other headphones, although the crack with them wasn’t good (boomy and thumpy). I have more testing to do, but I’m inclined to keep the Magni 3 and the mainline and sell the others. I have a Magni 2 at work, so one day I’ll bring it home to compare to the 3.

I know there are people out there that have way more listening experience than I do that may disagree with me, but I think this “hobby” is mostly about chasing gear and trying things out. Nothing wrong with that. But if one just wants to get some nice gear, enjoy the music and move on, there’s some easy solutions.

Here’s the set up. The Mac to bimby to Loki to switchbox to each of the four amps, from each amp to another switch box, then to the headphones. I tried with the Loki defeated and boosting some bass, but most defeated.

 

[GU1DO]

I set up my amps to allow for easy switching so I could A/B test. I also built a switchbox for the headphones, so I can wear one set of headphones, switch one box for DAC output, and one box for headphone input. Works really well. Level matching is always an issue. For me with the hd6xx, and YMMV, I could hear some differences between the mainline and the crack. The black widow 2 was very close to the mainline, and the Magni 3 was right up there. The crack is very tube dependent. It was smoother, with a little heavier bass. I sort of felt the BW2 and the mainline had more detail. The magni3 was just a smidgen behind in detail. The BW2 is a $1200 amp, and the Magni $100. the BW2 is not 12 times better. To me it’s maybe 5% better. For some songs, mostly rock and pop, I could hear very little to no difference between Magni, BW2 and mainline. The crack was always smoother, and not in any sort of bad way.

So, what’s this all mean? Get a mimby/Magni3 stack and your there. Get a crack or similar if you like smooth. Anything more and you are chasing rainbows.

Similar results with my other headphones, although the crack with them wasn’t good (boomy and thumpy). I have more testing to do, but I’m inclined to keep the Magni 3 and the mainline and sell the others. I have a Magni 2 at work, so one day I’ll bring it home to compare to the 3.

I know there are people out there that have way more listening experience than I do that may disagree with me, but I think this “hobby” is mostly about chasing gear and trying things out. Nothing wrong with that. But if one just wants to get some nice gear, enjoy the music and move on, there’s some easy solutions.

Here’s the set up. The Mac to bimby to Loki to switchbox to each of the four amps, from each amp to another switch box, then to the headphones. I tried with the Loki defeated and boosting some bass, but most defeated.

this is great setup but you have to unify the cables to get more contestant results ..
nonetheless ,, interesting findings

 

[raybone0566]

I set up my amps to allow for easy switching so I could A/B test. I also built a switchbox for the headphones, so I can wear one set of headphones, switch one box for DAC output, and one box for headphone input. Works really well. Level matching is always an issue. For me with the hd6xx, and YMMV, I could hear some differences between the mainline and the crack. The black widow 2 was very close to the mainline, and the Magni 3 was right up there. The crack is very tube dependent. It was smoother, with a little heavier bass. I sort of felt the BW2 and the mainline had more detail. The magni3 was just a smidgen behind in detail. The BW2 is a $1200 amp, and the Magni $100. the BW2 is not 12 times better. To me it’s maybe 5% better. For some songs, mostly rock and pop, I could hear very little to no difference between Magni, BW2 and mainline. The crack was always smoother, and not in any sort of bad way.

So, what’s this all mean? Get a mimby/Magni3 stack and your there. Get a crack or similar if you like smooth. Anything more and you are chasing rainbows.

Similar results with my other headphones, although the crack with them wasn’t good (boomy and thumpy). I have more testing to do, but I’m inclined to keep the Magni 3 and the mainline and sell the others. I have a Magni 2 at work, so one day I’ll bring it home to compare to the 3.

I know there are people out there that have way more listening experience than I do that may disagree with me, but I think this “hobby” is mostly about chasing gear and trying things out. Nothing wrong with that. But if one just wants to get some nice gear, enjoy the music and move on, there’s some easy solutions.

Here’s the set up. The Mac to bimby to Loki to switchbox to each of the four amps, from each amp to another switch box, then to the headphones. I tried with the Loki defeated and boosting some bass, but most defeated.

Allan, nice setup, how are you liking the bw2

 

[Allanmarcus]

this is great setup but you have to unify the cables to get more contestant results ..
nonetheless ,, interesting findings

I don't have to, since I cannot hear any difference between the cables.

Allan, nice setup, how are you liking the bw2

It's great, but only a tiny bit grater than the Magni 3. I think amp tech has progressed quite a bit in the last few years - at least from Schiit.

 

[raybone0566]

I don't have to, since I cannot hear any difference between the cables.



It's great, but only a tiny bit grater than the Magni 3. I think amp tech has progressed quite a bit in the last few years - at least from Schiit.

Yes so it seems. I know quite a few people who’ve heard the lyr 3 and they say it’s fantastic. Really looking forward to the liquid Platinum come June. Looks very promising

 

[GU1DO]

I don't have to, since I cannot hear any difference between the cables.



It's great, but only a tiny bit grater than the Magni 3. I think amp tech has progressed quite a bit in the last few years - at least from Schiit.

then i think you have non transparent cable from the switch box to your headphone ,,
because the Utopia is very detailed headphone & you should hear the deference

 

[Allanmarcus]

then i think you have non transparent cable from the switch box to your headphone ,,
because the Utopia is very detailed headphone & you should hear the deference

First of all, all the amps go through the same headphone cable, so the headphone cable would not affect how the different amps sound

Second, I have tried many cables on the utopia. Only one sounded bad; all the others sounded the same. The one that sounded bad was a DIY all silver cable that I reterminated for the HD6xx, and it’s the one I like on the HD6xx.

Most differences in cables are just expressions of expectation bias. A cable cannot make the signal better; the cable can only transmit the signal in tact, or degrade it. It’s certainly possible that different cables could degrade the sound differently, and thus sound a little different. I’ve tried the stock hd650 cable, DIY copper, and DIY silver cables with the HD6xx. I want to say the silver cable is more detailed, but when I pop the stock Cable on, it sounds the same.

 

[GU1DO]

First of all, all the amps go through the same headphone cable, so the headphone cable would not affect how the different amps sound

Second, I have tried many cables on the utopia. Only one sounded bad; all the others sounded the same. The one that sounded bad was a DIY all silver cable that I reterminated for the HD6xx, and it’s the one I like on the HD6xx.

Most differences in cables are just expressions of expectation bias. A cable cannot make the signal better; the cable can only transmit the signal in tact, or degrade it. It’s certainly possible that different cables could degrade the sound differently, and thus sound a little different. I’ve tried the stock hd650 cable, DIY copper, and DIY silver cables with the HD6xx. I want to say the silver cable is more detailed, but when I pop the stock Cable on, it sounds the same.

For the first part ,, it could be also that all your cables are bad , specially after you comment that differences in cables are just expressions of expectation bias , which indicate that you dont bother in there quality, but to be honest its all assumptions,so i totally respect your findings ..

For the second part ,, you state that a cable could sound bad or normal ,, but not better,,
and then you like one cable over another because its normal not better,

I dont think i have anything to add. you just proofed my point yourself

 

[Allanmarcus]

For the first part ,, it could be also that all your cables are bad , specially after you comment that differences in cables are just expressions of expectation bias , which indicate that you dont bother in there quality, but to be honest its all assumptions,so i totally respect your findings ..

For the second part ,, you state that a cable could sound bad or normal ,, but not better,,
and then you like one cable over another because its normal not better,

I dont think i have anything to add. you just proofed my point yourself

If my 4 different types of RCA cables all sound the same to me, I'm gonna assume the cables are fine.


I did the same comparisons with just the BW2 and the Mainline using the same Bluejeans cables on all connections, and I used the stock HD650 cable on the HD6xx and the stock Utopia cable on the utopia. The switch boxes use good quality copper hookup cable. The headphone switch box used good quality canare microphone cable. My relative impressions of the Mainline and the BW2 were the same with both headphones.

I think amp technology has advanced and amazing results are available for as little as $100 (Magni3). I have a ZDT jr on order from MassDrop, is I will add that to comparisons when it arrives in June or July. My guess is the Mod/Magni stack or the MCTH with SDAC end game for vast majority of people that just want to enjoy music. Couple that with great cans like the MD HD6xx (or various other MD bargain offers), and there is much less reason to chase the perfect sound via equipment swapping.

Equipment swapping is fun (and not cheap), but reasonably priced end game equipment for the all but the most demanding listeners is pretty affordable. Note that we are still talking $348 for the Mimby/Magni3 stack and $200 for an HD6xx, which is $548! One can shave $100 of of that wit just the "regular" modi. TO many $548 for a headphone rig isn't affordable. $50 headphones from amazon or monoprice and computer out jack is affordable. Heck, I would even recommend to many to just start with the Magni3 and use the line out from the computer or other device and see if that brings the HD6xx up to stuff. From my experience, the importance of the chain is headphones, amp, dac. Well mastered, CD quality source is also important, but many folks cannot hear a difference between 320 and flac. And that's fine. Enjoy the music.

My comparisons show me, that to my hearring and taste, the law of diminishing returns is not only in full swing, the slope of the diminishing part is very steep.

 

[penmarker]

There's no point in arguing about cables making music sound better when your amps and DACs use off the shelf hookup wires for their wiring. The PCBs use normal copper traces. There are no esoteric internals as far as I know except for those top of the line equipment like Gryphon or MBL or Goldmund. Even then, most amps use off the shelf Alps RK27 for volume attenuation and probably the fancier ones use Lorlin switches for channel switching.

If this cable argument makes some sense, that things sound very good and a lot better with better cables, then all these off the shelf parts will decimate - no, obliterate the sound quality of any equipment because they're not premium parts. None of the transformers are audiophile quality. Open your amps and you got normal Panasonic or Nichicon capacitors. The resistors are all metal film or wirewound, the transistors are all off the shelf stuff that you can get from Element14 or Digikey or Mouser. They are all normal parts.

I promise you. I promise you, they are all normal parts. Why should premium headphone cables make normal parts sound better? They don't!
Cables with continuity either work or work poorly. If they sound good and similar to other cables, then they work.