[zentg]

  ah right on, yeah the dark voice is known to have reliability issues. also Z reviews said it doesnt exactly pour honey on the music like i want it to, so im thinking maybe im bettter off with the mk3 as qutie a few people have recommended it to me, and im sure if its not warm enough ill throw on some mullard and electro harmonix tubes and it will be as tubey as any other tube amp xD 

 
Good choice
 
 

  to senn hd 650 owners who also have other more $$$ cans...what would you recommend as a big step up on sound?
 
have just the sony 7520 (closed) cans and senn hd650....
have been using mostly the sony 7520...just started tesing the senn hd650
(right now both with dragonfly red ....not my ifi micro idsd)
they sound very similar to me so maybe they're a bit redundant.
 
i love the detail and balance of the sony cans....i'm considering 'stepping up' but it can get pricey
esp since 'cheaper' planars are all the rage nowadays, ie mr speaker ether etc.
 
but this said, what would be your suggestions for a set of cans would sound like a great step up:
 has fab bass slam
(also very clean and detailed bass however as i'm no basshead)
and is balanced and yet musical over all?
 
my music; rock, jazz, blues.
 
equipment:
laptop to either
-dragonfly red
-chord mojo (on the way)
-or iFi micro iDSD to mapletree earplus HD tube amp.
 
just might keep the sony 7520 since i got them for a good price as they're easy to drive and very portable.

 
I have purchased quite a few more expensive "better" headphones but I choose to run with my HD650. It's seriously giving the HD800 and Audeze LCD's and he6's a run for their money. My HD650s are just as resolving as an HD800, except it doesn't have as big of a soundstage.
 
I've seen several posts here on headfi from guys who went yolo and bought 3k$+ electro static headphones, and still smile the most when they come back to the 650s. 650hd + good dac/amp = upgraded 650hd. 
 
I've heard lot of people call the audioquest nighthawks the hd650 killers, i got a chance to audition them  - I would not buy them, even if they weren't made buy a company that sold thousand dollar hdmi cables. They are so flimsy, it wouldn't be long til the rubber dried up and broke. they are low impedance, so wouldn't do very well with an OTL tube amp - that being said, they sound good - but i still think the 650s are leagues ahead.

 

[canali]

thanks zentg...might experiment a bit more then.
i did buy them 'very lightly used' off of ebay..pristine...so do they take a fair bit to be broken in?
also i've not driven them yet with my more powerful iFi micro iDSD amp...or the tube amp...so maybe
should try that first.

 

[canali]

   
I would honestly upgrade your chain if it was me.

 
youth...upgrade to what specficallyplease?
i thought the iFi has both a very good dac and a powerful amp...esp when paired to the mapletree amp.

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

My Metrum Musette arrived Friday, and tonight I'm going to give my Musette/Liquid Carbon/HD650 system its first go.  I'm excited to give the system its first listen....

 

[DavidA]

  to senn hd 650 owners who also have other more $$$ cans...what would you recommend as a big step up on sound?
 
have just the sony 7520 (closed) cans and senn hd650....
have been using mostly the sony 7520...just started tesing the senn hd650
(right now both with dragonfly red ....not my ifi micro idsd)
they sound very similar to me so maybe they're a bit redundant.
 
i love the detail and balance of the sony cans....i'm considering 'stepping up' but it can get pricey
esp since 'cheaper' planars are all the rage nowadays, ie mr speaker ether etc.
 
but this said, what would be your suggestions for a set of cans would sound like a great step up:
 has fab bass slam
(also very clean and detailed bass however as i'm no basshead)
and is balanced and yet musical over all?
 
my music; rock, jazz, blues.
 
equipment:
laptop to either
-dragonfly red
-chord mojo (on the way)
-or iFi micro iDSD to mapletree earplus HD tube amp.
 
just might keep the sony 7520 since i got them for a good price as they're easy to drive and very portable.

I would upgrade your chain as @Youth suggested, a good OTL amp for the HD-650 will make a noticeable improvement.
 
For clean and detailed bass you will need to change your headphones, HD-650 bass is good but its not that detailed compared to other headphones that I've heard.
 
Don't know what you consider a big step up since your definition and mine are probably not the same, this is what I would consider a big step up from HD-650: HE-560 or HD-800S driven by R2R DAC like a MHDT Pagoda and Liquid Gold amp, HD-800 with same DAC but EC Balancing Act, HD-700 with Liquid Glass amp, Stax SR-507 with Headamp Blue Hawaii or WES, and TH-900 with the EC Balancing Act.

 

[rgs9200m]

I go back and forth between my HD650 and my Grado PS1000e. Both are great but in very different ways.
Things stand out more on the Grado and there is a sweet angelic purity in vocals and provides just the right amount of thrills and chills and drama,
but the 650 as I said in some old post here speaks with 1 voice so it is very coherent and non-fatiguing with any music.
So that is the other headphone I would buy (as a complementary phone, not a replacement).
There is also the Stax SR007 current model with a KGSShv amp for real speed and detail without fatigue using a DAC that is not ruthless. But then you are talking about a 2nd amp.

 

[canali]

  I would upgrade your chain as @Youth suggested, a good OTL amp for the HD-650 will make a noticeable improvement.
 
For clean and detailed bass you will need to change your headphones, HD-650 bass is good but its not that detailed compared to other headphones that I've heard.
 
Don't know what you consider a big step up since your definition and mine are probably not the same, this is what I would consider a big step up from HD-650: HE-560 or HD-800S driven by R2R DAC like a MHDT Pagoda and Liquid Gold amp, HD-800 with same DAC but EC Balancing Act, HD-700 with Liquid Glass amp, Stax SR-507 with Headamp Blue Hawaii or WES, and TH-900 with the EC Balancing Act.

 
thanks, david ...had a look at your ideas (thanks)...those prices are out of my league (3-4k for an amp) i'm afraid.
...i'll stick with trying to squeeze as much from mid fi as i can.
 
funny but i'm warming up to the senn hd650...i was so used to more punch (mid bass hump i've been told) from the closed sony 7520
that i guess i came in biased (and as noted were my only benchmark)
 
for portable considering the new sine and mojo as a pairing (seems even audeze uses the mojo often for testing with their new  sine)
...still looking at home options....n this note i'm starting to understand why people also like open cans vs closed per the instrument separation, soundstage.

 

[ubs28]

  to senn hd 650 owners who also have other more $$$ cans...what would you recommend as a big step up on sound?
 
have just the sony 7520 (closed) cans and senn hd650....
have been using mostly the sony 7520...just started tesing the senn hd650
(right now both with dragonfly red ....not my ifi micro idsd)
they sound very similar to me so maybe they're a bit redundant.
 
i love the detail and balance of the sony cans....i'm considering 'stepping up' but it can get pricey
esp since 'cheaper' planars are all the rage nowadays, ie mr speaker ether etc.
 
but this said, what would be your suggestions for a set of cans would sound like a great step up:
 has fab bass slam
(also very clean and detailed bass however as i'm no basshead)
and is balanced and yet musical over all?
 
my music; rock, jazz, blues.
 
equipment:
laptop to either
-dragonfly red
-chord mojo (on the way)
-or iFi micro iDSD to mapletree earplus HD tube amp.
 
just might keep the sony 7520 since i got them for a good price as they're easy to drive and very portable.

HD 800 S or Hifiman Edition X. I think the HEX is more of a direct upgrade since it has also has a fun sound while the HD 800 S is neutral.

 

[DavidA]

   
thanks, david ...had a look at your ideas (thanks)...those prices are out of my league (3-4k for an amp) i'm afraid.
...i'll stick with trying to squeeze as much from mid fi as i can.
 
funny but i'm warming up to the senn hd650...i was so used to more punch (mid bass hump i've been told) from the closed sony 7520
that i guess i came in biased (and as noted were my only benchmark)
 
for portable considering the new sine and mojo as a pairing (seems even audeze uses the mojo often for testing with their new  sine)
...still looking at home options....n this note i'm starting to understand why people also like open cans vs closed per the instrument separation, soundstage.

I would suggest a good OTL amp for the HD-650 like the BH Crack with TS-5998 or WE-421A power tube and Telefunken driver tube (around $550 total cost) or the WA3 with better tubes ($800 total).
 
Other options that don't cost an amp and leg, HE-560 with a good decent amp (AudioGD NFB-1, $520 + shipping, or Lyr2 with upgraded tube, about $600).
 
Last thing that I would suggest is a hybrid headphone, Grado style wood cup with either Symphones V7 driver or Ellevenacoustica Ypislon drivers, total cost $250 but its DIY or there are a few who build them.

 

[Rdrcr]

  Other options that don't cost an amp and leg, HE-560 with a good decent amp (AudioGD NFB-1, $520 + shipping, or Lyr2 with upgraded tube, about $600).

 
Much agreed.  I'm very happy the HE-560's.  They are a nice upgrade and compliment the HD650's sound.
 
Mike

 

[canali]

   
Much agreed.  I'm very happy the HE-560's.  They are a nice upgrade and compliment the HD650's sound.
 
Mike

thanks for your replies and suggestions fellow headfiers:
 
i'll research those he560 ...and even the new audeze sine (to possibly replace my sony 7520)
 
far below at bottom (bold, italicized) is what Dr lloyd peppard  (of mapletree)  did to my Ear+ to tweak it into an HD version:
his website:  https://hollowstate.netfirms.com/
 
Lloyd thus feels no need for an OTL amp:
 
The output impedance of the HD is very low, which, just like a power amp for speakers,
yields a high damping factor, which ensures good bass transient response. The combination of a cathode follower
output stage and the output transformer in the HD is the key to all this. You will never get as low an output impedance
with an OTL amp. I would be very surprised if your HD has any issue working with any of the new headphones.
-----------------------------------------
 
Hi J,
 
I have finished with your Ear+ HD refurb. Here is what I did:
 
- replaced BG electrolytic/Auricap combination output caps with single 30uF/500V Panasonic polypropylenes (cleaner highs).
- replaced driver tube metal film plate resistors with Audio Note Tantawhat lum film (adds texture).
- replaced 4700uF heater voltage filter cap with 10000uF.
- Added a low impedance phones jack (accommodates a wider range of headphones).
- re-attached BG filter caps to chassis
- general wiring cleanup.
- complete repaint of chassis, new logos, labels.
- tested your tubes--strong.
 
Your CV4004 is a very nice tube. It has more air than the Sovtek 5751and overall, your amp sounds to my ears the best I have heard. It is fully tweaked.
 
Regards,
 
Lloyd
 
Lloyd Peppard
Mapletree Audio Design
www.mapletreeaudio.com
 
------------------

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

  to senn hd 650 owners who also have other more $$$ cans...what would you recommend as a big step up on sound?
 
have just the sony 7520 (closed) cans and senn hd650....
have been using mostly the sony 7520...just started tesing the senn hd650
(right now both with dragonfly red ....not my ifi micro idsd)
they sound very similar to me so maybe they're a bit redundant.
 
i love the detail and balance of the sony cans....i'm considering 'stepping up' but it can get pricey
esp since 'cheaper' planars are all the rage nowadays, ie mr speaker ether etc.
 
but this said, what would be your suggestions for a set of cans would sound like a great step up:
 has fab bass slam
(also very clean and detailed bass however as i'm no basshead)
and is balanced and yet musical over all?
 
my music; rock, jazz, blues.
 
equipment:
laptop to either
-dragonfly red
-chord mojo (on the way)
-or iFi micro iDSD to mapletree earplus HD tube amp.
 
just might keep the sony 7520 since i got them for a good price as they're easy to drive and very portable.

 
 
I listen to the same genres as you, and my complimentary headphone to my HD650 is the MDR-Z7.  It definitely cures my bass cravings my HD650 can't provide.  And it wouldn't require the upgrade of the chain that the HD650 most likely could use.
 
But with that said, I just added a Metrum Musette to my chain, and it really has breathed new vigor in to both of my headphones.  I'm now a believer in focusing on source, and not just amp and transducers...

 

[Krutsch]

   
 
I listen to the same genres as you, and my complimentary headphone to my HD650 is the MDR-Z7.  It definitely cures my bass cravings my HD650 can't provide.  And it wouldn't require the upgrade of the chain that the HD650 most likely could use.

 
Timely post... I am in the market for a closed-back set of 'phones and I am going to try out the MDR-Z7.
 

But with that said, I just added a Metrum Musette to my chain, and it really has breathed new vigor in to both of my headphones.  I'm now a believer in focusing on source, and not just amp and transducers...

 
Amen, brother. I am also a believer in source meaning your digital converters, as well as what feeds them.

 

[canali]

thanks guys...i did read that both the dac/amps on both the chord mojo and iFi micro iDSD are pretty good, however.
...and the amp in it is pretty powerful.
 
 chord's CS said the mojo can power 800ohm cans even.
i know it's mostly for portable usage..but many also use it as a TT dac/amp, too.
 
that said, i'm all for looking at new DAC options as a TT to power my senns and other models if it 
can 'breathe new life into them' 
i might check out ie the he560 as good value planars, even.
 
i'll check out some of the dacs listed here...many thanks.

 

[Mad Max]

   
 
I listen to the same genres as you, and my complimentary headphone to my HD650 is the MDR-Z7.  It definitely cures my bass cravings my HD650 can't provide.  And it wouldn't require the upgrade of the chain that the HD650 most likely could use.
 
But with that said, I just added a Metrum Musette to my chain, and it really has breathed new vigor in to both of my headphones.  I'm now a believer in focusing on source, and not just amp and transducers...

 
Better late than never. 

I would argue that source is more important than the amp.
 
 
What's so special about Z7's bass?  It doesn't look to be any more than 650, though I don't like the recessed upper mids I'm seeing on Z7's graph:
 

 
worse than HD650:
 

 
Edit: not to imply that I'm not an HD650 fan.