[skullmonkee]

Hi
 
I hope this is the correct thread to post this... As someone who has limited experience in this field, i would love some objectively subjective opinions, specifically from people who happen to own both the DT880 600ohm and  HD650 sets.
 
For a few years i have used the DT880 exclusively.  These are the first (real) cans i had ever owned, and as per the other posts in this forum i found them to be fantastic.  However i slowly noticed that i had developed a problem with sibilance when listening to some specific audio.  So a few months ago, purely out of interest, and reviewing this forum i purchased some HD650s.  Also, amazing, as expected.  
 
Now a little while has gone by and i never really sat down to compare the two sets.  However tonight i did, and was surprised by what i found.  I understand there are threads dedicated to articulating the differences between the two sets on a general level, however, if anyone has the time i would love to know their thoughts on the differences they experience when listening to "Adagio in d minor (orchestra mix)" by John Murphy.  This is one of my favourite pieces and can be found on Spotify. 
 
I apologise if this is the wrong place to post this.

 

[DavidA]

  Hi
 
I hope this is the correct thread to post this... As someone who has limited experience in this field, i would love some objectively subjective opinions, specifically from people who happen to own both the DT880 600ohm and  HD650 sets.
 
For a few years i have used the DT880 exclusively.  These are the first (real) cans i had ever owned, and as per the other posts in this forum i found them to be fantastic.  However i slowly noticed that i had developed a problem with sibilance when listening to some specific audio.  So a few months ago, purely out of interest, and reviewing this forum i purchased some HD650s.  Also, amazing, as expected.
 
Now a little while has gone by and i never really sat down to compare the two sets.  However tonight i did, and was surprised by what i found.  I understand there are threads dedicated to articulating the differences between the two sets on a general level, however, if anyone has the time i would love to know their thoughts on the differences they experience when listening to "Adagio in d minor (orchestra mix)" by John Murphy.  This is one of my favourite pieces and can be found on Spotify.
 
I apologise if this is the wrong place to post this.

Interesting song, tried it with a few different headphones and that makes a big difference.
 
HD-650: okay, nothing great but gets muddy about 2/3 into the song when there is a lot going on
RS2e: much better than the HD-650, where the HD-650 gets somewhat muddy its still nice and clear
HD-800: like the RS2e but more like you are sitting in front of the orchestra
DT-990 premium 250: between the HD-650 and RS2e in terms of clarity and muddiness. (closest to DT-880 that I have)
HE-400: worst of all, very muddy at 2/3 point and not really listenable

 

[skullmonkee]

  Interesting song, tried it with a few different headphones and that makes a big difference.
 
HD-650: okay, nothing great but gets muddy about 2/3 into the song when there is a lot going on
RS2e: much better than the HD-650, where the HD-650 gets somewhat muddy its still nice and clear
HD-800: like the RS2e but more like you are sitting in front of the orchestra
DT-990 premium 250: between the HD-650 and RS2e in terms of clarity and muddiness. (closest to DT-880 that I have)
HE-400: worst of all, very muddy at 2/3 point and not really listenable

Thanks for taking the time to listen.  I agree, that different headphones make a big difference, at least with the DT880 and HD650.  In fact, it was a much larger difference that i would have guessed.  Although i find the HD650 to be preferable in a lot of things i listen to, with this particular recording i found the DT880 to be unquestionably better.

 

[DavidA]

  Thanks for taking the time to listen.  I agree, that different headphones make a big difference, at least with the DT880 and HD650.  In fact, it was a much larger difference that i would have guessed.  Although i find the HD650 to be preferable in a lot of things i listen to, with this particular recording i found the DT880 to be unquestionably better.

That makes sense since the DT-990 is close to the DT-880 and the RS2e and HD-800 being even more detailed in the highs they sounded better.  And yeah, the differences were kinda of shock to me, usually the differences are not as varied but there is something about the song that makes those headphones react very differently when listening to the song.
 
Going to keep this song a test song for future, thanks for posting this

 

[mikoss]

no dac/amp is going to magically add all kinds of new sounds and "details" to your music. It's only going to play what is already there. Now you've seen for yourself after spending over a thousand bucks on a dac/amp. i've said it before and i'll say it again, if a dac/amp sounds different than the o2odac, it's either doing something different for the sake of being different - or it's doing something wrong. Marketing is a bitch, a fool and his money are soon parted. I'd return your stack if you can, though i imagine they will try to rape you with shipping. 

I take it you've never heard an R-2R or Multibit DAC. You're entirely right that there are hundreds of DACs that sound the same as the ODAC. Once you hear a better DAC, you understand everything in the music that you've been missing.

Also with respect to comments regarding amps, there are people who can subjectively describe differences between amps, and determine what is good and what is crap. When you start to find a large group of people with the same opinion, and your impressions match theirs, you begin to gain an understanding that allows you to separate the hype from what is actually good, and what sounds not as good.

If you don't want to believe this, that's your prerogative. The differences come in the form of the architecture, implementation, components and suitability of what the amp is driving. For example, there are a multitude of ways to design a basic power supply for an amp... there are also a multitude of ways to improve upon the power supply. Pretty much anything and everything in the amp will affect the sound... It's ridiculous to believe that a simplistic SS designed amp is the be all, end all in amplification. We are constantly finding new ways to objectively measure what makes good amps good... Don't chase the hype, but believe in your ears.

 

[skullmonkee]

  That makes sense since the DT-990 is close to the DT-880 and the RS2e and HD-800 being even more detailed in the highs they sounded better.  And yeah, the differences were kinda of shock to me, usually the differences are not as varied but there is something about the song that makes those headphones react very differently when listening to the song.
 
Going to keep this song a test song for future, thanks for posting this

Thanks for the feedback.  I wish i had more to compare.

 

[jimmers]

I know we like our HD650, but ...
I saw this on another thread, thought HD650 owners might like it. 
 
"Also i heard that the new 50 thousand dollar orpheus is basically just a hd 650 + little dot mk2 tube amp combo in a pretty shell/casing/paint job"
 
Better order that LD mk2 and some paint 

 

[Koolpep]

  I know we like our HD650, but ...
I saw this on another thread, thought HD650 owners might like it. 
 
"Also i heard that the new 50 thousand dollar orpheus is basically just a hd 650 + little dot mk2 tube amp combo in a pretty shell/casing/paint job"
 
Better order that LD mk2 and some paint 

I laughed so hard!!
Thanks for sharing

 

[audiojun]

I removed the foam on the back of the hd650 driver and I liked the sound (after some a or b testing) so I did it to the other driver. Brought the sound more forward and the sound is more clear.

Before I liked my HD600 more than the 650 now with the modded HD650 it is a different beast. I now prefer the sound over the stock HD600 the modded 650 is definately higher resolution. I Might go on and do the coin foam mod and maybe do a dynamat mod for the back.

removing the foam behind the drivers is a good mod that you guys might want to try.

 

[Solrighal]

I removed the foam on the back of the hd650 driver and I liked the sound (after some a or b testing) so I did it to the other driver. Brought the sound more forward and the sound is more clear.

Before I liked my HD600 more than the 650 now with the modded HD650 it is a different beast. I now prefer the sound over the stock HD600 the modded 650 is definately higher resolution. I Might go on and do the coin foam mod and maybe do a dynamat mod for the back.

removing the foam behind the drivers is a good mod that you guys might want to try.

 
Why not try some judicious use of EQ and spare the scissors?

 

[audiojun]

Why not try some judicious use of EQ and spare the scissors?

It's not something you can EQ, it's basically the same frequency response to me. I didn't use scissors I used tweezers to pinch the foam behind the drivers (you'll need to remove the grill). It has more clarity more high res to me and the sound is more forward. It's also a well documented mod you can read about in other threads or use google.

 

[DavidA]

I removed the foam on the back of the hd650 driver and I liked the sound (after some a or b testing) so I did it to the other driver. Brought the sound more forward and the sound is more clear.

Before I liked my HD600 more than the 650 now with the modded HD650 it is a different beast. I now prefer the sound over the stock HD600 the modded 650 is definately higher resolution. I Might go on and do the coin foam mod and maybe do a dynamat mod for the back.

removing the foam behind the drivers is a good mod that you guys might want to try.

Is the process of removing the foam from the back of the drivers reversible?

 

[audiojun]

I heard it's much harder to undo it. There is 2 or 3 layers of foam behind the drivers and it's just packed in really tight. I think it will be hard to get all the layers back inside but puting just 1 layer should be easy. So far it feels less dampened, less veil, more forward, more resolution, frequency response is the same. I guess the only con i can think about is no dust protection for back of driver. I also thought that also maybe you lose some of the weird sennheiser veiled soundstage because it made it slightly more forward but after listening to it more I'd say the sound stage is definately still there but clearer now.

 

[MattTCG]

^^ 650 is already forward enough IMO. If I want clearer, I'll get an hd600. It's a pass for me. 

 

[DavidA]

I heard it's much harder to undo it. There is 2 or 3 layers of foam behind the drivers and it's just packed in really tight. I think it will be hard to get all the layers back inside but puting just 1 layer should be easy. So far it feels less dampened, less veil, more forward, more resolution, frequency response is the same. I guess the only con i can think about is no dust protection for back of driver. I also thought that also maybe you lose some of the weird sennheiser veiled soundstage because it made it slightly more forward but after listening to it more I'd say the sound stage is definately still there but clearer now.

Your avatar has the HD-600 and HD-650, did you also do the mod to the HD-600?  Any comments to what MattTCG mentioned below?
 

  ^^ 650 is already forward enough IMO. If I want clearer, I'll get an hd600. It's a pass for me.

So if I mod my HD-650 I will turn it in to a HD-600?
 
Really need to think this through if its hard to undo removal of foam.