[TWerk]

  When I hear someone say the HD650 is veiled, I check out their amplification.  I usually find my answer...

 
Not everyone wants to spend 600 bucks to amplify a 200 HP (your cavelli carbon amp).
 
Nevertheless, I think the Audeze Deckard is plenty powerful to fully and adequately power the 650.

 

[TWerk]

The veil doesn't come from the frequency response but due to the lack of speed and clarity of the drivers.

I have darker headphones / IEM's that sound clearer than the HD 650.

 
I like your theory, this may very well be the explanation for the 650 veil.
 
You also own some pretty top tier headphones and amping equipment, so you can see how they respond, powered by top gear, in relation to other top gear.

 

[peter123]

I don't find them veiled either. Rolled off treble yes, veiled no. To me this is two different things. As always (and obviously) YMMV...

 

[Solrighal]

I haven't personally compared the HD 6XX to the HD 650, but unlike the AKGs at least the Senns are still made in the same country as what it's based on, it is possible the drivers aren't held to quite the same standards, but considering unit variation and without testing a decent amount of them it is hard to say for sure. The problem with the K7XX it's made in China not Austria and it was rather obvious it was of lesser quality than the Austrian made ones in direct comparison, cheaper plastics, looser fit, etc. But honestly AKG that was a company slowly ruined by Harman, they would probably be more competitive now if they were never bought out.

 
The quality control issues are nothing to do with Massdrop though. In the case of the Q701 when I bought my pair from Amazon I was relieved to see they were made in Austria. Just around that time AKG were switching manufacture to China and there were already reports of poor quality control and inferior plastics used in construction. This was well before AKG got involved with Massdrop.

 

[kman1211]

The quality control issues are nothing to do with Massdrop though. In the case of the Q701 when I bought my pair from Amazon I was relieved to see they were made in Austria. Just around that time AKG were switching manufacture to China and there were already reports of poor quality control and inferior plastics used in construction. This was well before AKG got involved with Massdrop.

I know they don't. I'm not going to blame Massdrop for what AKG or most likely the parent company Harman did to quality control.

 

[Solrighal]

I know they don't. I'm not going to blame Massdrop for what AKG or most likely the parent company Harman did to quality control.

 
No, I know mate. No offence intended I just wanted to put it out there for clarity. I've never used Massdrop but it seems to me they allow people on constrained budgets rare glimpses into the more esoteric things in life. That's to be applauded in my book. They seem to be getting a lot of stick around here of late & I can't see what they've done wrong.

 

[RaptorX2]

Lol I swear people just say veil because they have seen it mentioned in the past.

Also "Slow" lol I have seen burst respomse of the HD650 that says otherwise. The HD650 is actuslly a pretty snappy headphone. It does have bloated and undefined bass which can give them the impression of them lacking speed.

Veiled headphones usually have a drop in the upper mids but the HD650 is quite clean, has an even midrange.

 

[kman1211]

No, I know mate. No offence intended I just wanted to put it out there for clarity. I've never used Massdrop but it seems to me they allow people on constrained budgets rare glimpses into the more esoteric things in life. That's to be applauded in my book. They seem to be getting a lot of stick around here of late & I can't see what they've done wrong.

None taken. I do think Massdrop is unfairly bashed due what the actual manufacturers have done. Problems with the product is usually on the manufacturer. If people have problems with their customer service, etc. as a seller, thats legitimate criticisms of Massdrop.

It is funny how often this HD 650 veil talk comes up.

 

[vo328]

I have had several amps in the past with my range of headphones. I've really enjoyed the iFi Audio iDSD Black Label. It drives my 650's and the rest of my headphones very nicely. The texture, authority and range quality has been amazing. I always felt the veil, and it has now been lifted. It is true that these cans need some power to drive them to their ability.

I enjoy having transportable amps and have used several over the past 10 years. The BL has been a game changer for me. Loving my Senns more than ever. Even my custom IEM's sound much more realistic. I'm now using my 650's more than any other headphone/IEM.

 

[LugBug1]

None taken. I do think Massdrop is unfairly bashed due what the actual manufacturers have done. Problems with the product is usually on the manufacturer. If people have problems with their customer service, etc. as a seller, thats legitimate criticisms of Massdrop.

It is funny how often this HD 650 veil talk comes up.

True.. How often the veil talk has popped up over the years. I could kind of understood it early on in this hobby as I owned an early HD650 which were defo darker. But they have always been sharp in the mids/lower treble to my ears.
 
But after owning 3 sets now from different periods I can confirm that there has never been a veil. (Fact - measured with ears) Tas only been folk jumping on a band wagon regarding a warm sounding headphone compared to the overly coloured competition.  In 'fact' my last set of HD650 annoyed me because of the sharp lower treble (documented on here). 
 
"The Veil" is folk legend.. 

 

[kman1211]

True.. How often the veil talk has popped up over the years. I could kind of understood it early on in this hobby as I owned an early HD650 which were defo darker. But they have always been sharp in the mids/lower treble to my ears.

But after owning 3 sets now from different periods I can confirm that there has never been a veil. (Fact - measured with ears) Tas only been folk jumping on a band wagon regarding a warm sounding headphone compared to the overly coloured competition.  In 'fact' my last set of HD650 annoyed me because of the sharp lower treble (documented on here). 

"The Veil" is folk legend.. 

The HD 650(and HD 600) are a bit lacking in terms of treble extension but not veiled. I never felt the HD 650 was lacking in terms of clarity and transparency, in fact I find thats some of its best aspects. True, I've experienced similar things with the HD 650, some are just smoother than others. While I don't have an HD 650 anymore, I moved on to the DT 1990, the HD 650 is always a great first audiophile headphone and for many a final headphone.

 

[drwlf]

 

Why would Sennheiser agree to offload b-stock or rejected parts in the 6XX at an obviously reduced profit margin per set, and still back it with the standard 2 year Sennheiser warranty?  Your theory doesn't add up.  I think the more likely reason Sennheiser and other brands do the Massdrops is exactly because of guaranteed massive bulk sales.  Manufacturers do this all the time.  They're willing to accept a lower per unit profit margin, if it means they get to dramatically boost sales and sell tons and tons more units.  It's probably as simple as that.

I haven't personally compared the HD 6XX to the HD 650, but unlike the AKGs at least the Senns are still made in the same country as what it's based on, it is possible the drivers aren't held to quite the same standards, but considering unit variation and without testing a decent amount of them it is hard to say for sure. The problem with the K7XX it's made in China not Austria and it was rather obvious it was of lesser quality than the Austrian made ones in direct comparison, cheaper plastics, looser fit, etc. But honestly AKG that was a company slowly ruined by Harman, they would probably be more competitive now if they were never bought out.

 
@kman1211 Minor tidbit wrong, Sennheisers from Germany, and the HD650s are made in Ireland. But yeah, European standards vs. the Chinese.
 
Edit: double nested quotes

 

[kman1211]

@kman1211
Minor tidbit wrong, Sennheisers from Germany, and the HD650s are made in Ireland. But yeah, European standards vs. the Chinese.

Edit: double nested quotes

I know that, I should of worded it better, I was meaning the HD 600/650 were always made in Ireland. The only headphone of the HD 6XX family that was made in Germany were early HD 580's. Beyer is one of the only old audio companies that still makes the majority of their products from their county of origin sadly, STAX being another.

 

[castleofargh]

Lol I swear people just say veil because they have seen it mentioned in the past.

Also "Slow" lol I have seen burst respomse of the HD650 that says otherwise. The HD650 is actuslly a pretty snappy headphone. It does have bloated and undefined bass which can give them the impression of them lacking speed.

Veiled headphones usually have a drop in the upper mids but the HD650 is quite clean, has an even midrange.

I hate slow headphones, you listen to a 50mn album and it takes 55mn. what a horrible waste of my time!

 

[gefski]

I hate slow headphones, you listen to a 50mn album and it takes 55mn. what a horrible waste of my time!

On the other hand, I feel "cheated" when a fast can shortens an album from 50 min to 47 min.