[rikk009]

  Well, my question was more like , taking in care the price range of the e12 if anything on the 200€ range would get "any" better for solid state amps? Or should i try something like a dark voice?

Don't waste on more intermediate products. Save a bit and keep an eye on a quality product on the used market. If you are not interested in a used item then saving for something like BH crack/Valhalla will be worth.

 

[JWolf]

  Don't waste on more intermediate products. Save a bit and keep an eye on a quality product on the used market. If you are not interested in a used item then saving for something like BH crack/Valhalla will be worth.

 
Why are you recommending esoteric overpriced items when what I've recommended is quite good at reasonable prices?

 

[raybone0566]

Why are you recommending esoteric overpriced items when what I've recommended is quite good at reasonable prices?

Bottlehead crack & vahalla2 are highly regarded here & for what they offer are quite affordable actually. Have you heard them? I had the Fiio e12, and it doesn't do the 650's justice, a far cry actually from the other amps mentioned do.

 

[JWolf]

Bottlehead crack & vahalla2 are highly regarded here & for what they offer are quite affordable actually. Have you heard them? I had the Fiio e12, and it doesn't do the 650's justice, a far cry actually from the other amps mentioned do.

 
The question I have is, do these amps give the same sound as the source or do you get different sound? An amp should be giving you the same sound and not modifying it to be better.

 

[Dino2000]

   
The question I have is, do these amps give the same sound as the source or do you get different sound? An amp should be giving you the same sound and not modifying it to be better.

 
How do you determine the sound of the source?

 

[DavidA]

   
The question I have is, do these amps give the same sound as the source or do you get different sound? An amp should be giving you the same sound and not modifying it to be better.

depends on what an individual is looking for, I want something that sounds good to me for enjoyment of the music which the HD650 does very well when properly amped.  If I try an amp which is said to be neutral (not modifying the source to be better as you put it) and it sounds bad to me then I would not consider it better since there is no enjoyment.

 

[Vu Chau]

Agreed with @DavidA.
 
Also, those are tube amps, so depending on the tube you roll, you might get a different output. Warm, neutral, treble-happy, etc. all depend on your tube. I paired the HD 650 with an O2, which is dead neutral, and while I'm a purist, I did not get to enjoy the music as much as I wanted. Made the switch to a lightly warmer Project Polaris amp, and now I'm enjoying the music. I honestly indulge in the warm sound of the HD 650 + Polaris.

 

[LazyListener]

   
Yes, fantastic combination. Sounds great with a balanced cable to the HD650s.

Any opinion on what would be a better sounding synergy for the 650 -- Jotunheim or Modi 2 + Asgard 2?  Priorities are smoothness (no fatigue), resolution/detail, and soundstage.

 

[LazyListener]

I was thinking to buy a dac that i will be able to use both on the go with my galaxy s7 and a closed hp and in the hotel rooms with the hd6xx and my s7 or the laptop (i travel alot). At first i was thinking chord mojo but i read lots of reviews about the fact that both hd6xx and mojo are worm so as a combo it is too warm. Could not find something that would be really good for both. I was thinking mojo for on the go and apogee groove as my laptop solution with hd6xx in the hotels.(I know that jot is probably better as a desktop solution but it does not look as a good solution to carry in a suitcase, size wise and weight wise compared to the groove) your thoughts?

Have you considered the new Dragonfly Red?  It outputs 2.1 volts, which should be plenty to power the 650s.  Works directly with Android and iOS smartphones (no external power supply needed).  I do not know how it sounds, but I do own the Dragonfly version 1.2, and consider it to be slightly bright sounding, but very smooth.  The dragonfly is super small and light, so no issues there.

 

[kman1211]

 
Any opinion on what would be a better sounding synergy for the 650 -- Jotunheim or Modi 2 + Asgard 2?  Priorities are smoothness (no fatigue), resolution/detail, and soundstage.

Get a Lake People/Violectric amp instead. If you want the best SS amps for your money that's where it's at imho. I'd take the G103 over the Asgard 2 any day. 

 

[Liu Junyuan]

Get a Lake People/Violectric amp instead. If you want the best SS amps for your money that's where it's at imho. I'd take the G103 over the Asgard 2 any day. 

I have always wanted to hear a Lake People amp. It looks they have just announced a new flagship, seen on their thread here.

I have enjoyed my HD650 from every amplifier I have tried. There have been some fantastic recommendations in the last few pages. I personally have enjoyed them most from my La Figaro 339, Eddie Current ZDS, and balanced out from my father's HA-1. Valhalla 2 was also great synergistically, and I may be in the minority in liking the O2 pairing as well.

The WA6SE looks like a great option (the most attractive to me from Woo), though I have not tried it. Sorely missing from my experience has been the Crack, which I have only heard briefly. Other options I would consider might be the FA Elise and the Garage amps. Too many options really. But your preferences do matter. My intuitions tell me that first stop from an entry setup should include a Crack w/SB, universally praised as securing a brilliant synergy, and for a ridiculously good price. I would not spend thousands, unless you knew you wanted to max the hp, if ever. It was only until I had lived with this lovely companion headphone for seven years, deciding it was my favorite, that I began saving for the ZDS. The 339 honestly gets very close for me, but if you were looking for the Valhalla 2's bigger brother, with a relatively neutral yet luxurious timbre, notable macrodynamic slam (particularly on high gain), deep and textured bass, and high sensitivity to microdynamic nuance, it would probably be the ZDS. The 339 is highly tunable with tubes and is more immersive than the ZDS. It also slams hard yet is slightly slower due to higher OI (note that the lower OI of the Valhalla 2/ZDS make it sound faster). Its highly textured and spacious rendering of microdynamic modulations of detail goes toe to toe with the ZDS, and the amp has consistently wowed me more than any other amp with the HD650, even if the ZDS is more transparent and allows the HD650 to exhibit more solid, impactful bass (which is the weak point of this hp compared to planars).

I am still using stock cables after all these years but did use a Norne SolvX balanced with the HA-1 and a Cardas cable for awhile. My HD650s have the silver drivers but came in the silver box.

 

[cskippy]

Valhalla 2 gets a BIG vote from me.  It's insane what it can do with the HD650 for the money.  Find a pair of well regarded tubes and enjoy your amazing combo.  Valhalla 2 with NOS tubes is so good, I wouldn't bother looking at another amp until your ready to spend money on a Torpedo III or Eddie Current ZDS.

 

[kman1211]

I have always wanted to hear a Lake People amp. It looks they have just announced a new flagship, seen on their thread here.

I have enjoyed my HD650 from every amplifier I have tried. There have been some fantastic recommendations in the last few pages. I personally have enjoyed them most from my La Figaro 339, Eddie Current ZDS, and balanced out from my father's HA-1. Valhalla 2 was also great synergistically, and I may be in the minority in liking the O2 pairing as well.

The WA6SE looks like a great option as well, though I have not tried it. Sorely missing from my experience has been the Crack, which I have only heard briefly. Other options I woukd consider might be the FA Elise and the Garage amps. Too many options really. But your preferences do matter. My intuitions tell me that first stop from an entry setup should include a Crack w/SB. I would not spend thousands initially. It was oy until I had loved with this lovely companion headphone for seven years that I began saving for the ZDS.

They are fantastic. Probably the best deal from them right now is the G-100 FE. The Violectric V281 is the best SS amp I've heard. The amps are just so transparent. 
 
I've found the HD 650 to sound good from mostly everything too. While I am more of a Beyer fan, the HD 600/650 will always have a soft spot for me. It's really only in hindsight I realize how good the HD 650 is. While I do prefer the new Tesla 2.0 Beyers, the HD 650 is a headphone I could always go back to and feel comfortable, I can't say that for most headphones in it's price range. The Valhalla 2 was mixed for me, I felt the HD 650 was one of the few headphones that sounded truly good on it to me, another one being the DT 1990. Haven't tried the HD 600 on it. 
 
The Garage Amps are not bad at all, I generally prefer them the Schiit's lower-end and mid-tier offerings, they seem to respond better to tube rolling and the versatility is nice. Haven't heard the Elise before. Preferences are a big deal. Yeah, honestly it's really best to spend more than you often initially plan, otherwise you can go chasing a rabbit hole, problem is you don't always know what you want as impressions may not tell you much and experience does help. Don't have much experience with the Crack either. I'm content where I'm at for now. May eventually pick up a HD 650 again after I do some system upgrades, but in no rush at all, decided to put spending on this hobby on hiatus for a while. 

 

[rikk009]

   
Why are you recommending esoteric overpriced items when what I've recommended is quite good at reasonable prices?

The reasons:
1. From his E12, an O2/Magni won't be much of an 'upgrade'.
2. People spend on intermediate products only to end up buying what they have been craving for in the beginning, so it's actually wise to have a little patience and buy a product that is a good mid-fi that can be kept for next say 5-7 years. Meanwhile, his current setup is not bad to enjoy music.
3. If only an amp's job be providing more gain then everyone would buy a O2/Magni/GD100 and never look elsewhere but that's not the case. HD650 specially is good with warm OTL amp.
 

I have always wanted to hear a Lake People amp. It looks they have just announced a new flagship, seen on their thread here.

I have enjoyed my HD650 from every amplifier I have tried. There have been some fantastic recommendations in the last few pages. I personally have enjoyed them most from my La Figaro 339, Eddie Current ZDS, and balanced out from my father's HA-1. Valhalla 2 was also great synergistically, and I may be in the minority in liking the O2 pairing as well.

The WA6SE looks like a great option (the most attractive to me from Woo), though I have not tried it. Sorely missing from my experience has been the Crack, which I have only heard briefly. Other options I would consider might be the FA Elise and the Garage amps. Too many options really. But your preferences do matter. My intuitions tell me that first stop from an entry setup should include a Crack w/SB, universally praised as securing a brilliant synergy, and for a ridiculously good price. I would not spend thousands, unless you knew you wanted to max the hp, if ever. It was only until I had lived with this lovely companion headphone for seven years, deciding it was my favorite, that I began saving for the ZDS. The 339 honestly gets very close for me, but if you were looking for the Valhalla 2's bigger brother, with a relatively neutral yet luxurious timbre, notable macrodynamic slam (particularly on high gain), deep and textured bass, and high sensitivity to microdynamic nuance, it would probably be the ZDS. The 339 is highly tunable with tubes and is more immersive than the ZDS. It also slams hard yet is slightly slower due to higher OI (note that the lower OI of the Valhalla 2/ZDS make it sound faster). Its highly textured and spacious rendering of microdynamic modulations of detail goes toe to toe with the ZDS, and the amp has consistently wowed me more than any other amp with the HD650, even if the ZDS is more transparent and allows the HD650 to exhibit more solid, impactful bass (which is the weak point of this hp compared to planars).

I am still using stock cables after all these years but did use a Norne SolvX balanced with the HA-1 and a Cardas cable for awhile. My HD650s have the silver drivers but came in the silver box.

I have been saving up for a LA Figaro 339 as well and wonder how much it differs from a Valhalla 2? I almost pulled the trigger on an used Ember 2 but it was sold before I got my hands on it.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

They are fantastic. Probably the best deal from them right now is the G-100 FE. The Violectric V281 is the best SS amp I've heard. The amps are just so transparent. 

I've found the HD 650 to sound good from mostly everything too. While I am more of a Beyer fan, the HD 600/650 will always have a soft spot for me. It's really only in hindsight I realize how good the HD 650 is. While I do prefer the new Tesla 2.0 Beyers, the HD 650 is a headphone I could always go back to and feel comfortable, I can't say that for most headphones in it's price range. The Valhalla 2 was mixed for me, I felt the HD 650 was one of the few headphones that sounded truly good on it to me, another one being the DT 1990. Haven't tried the HD 600 on it. 

The Garage Amps are not bad at all, I generally prefer them the Schiit's lower-end and mid-tier offerings, they seem to respond better to tube rolling and the versatility is nice. Haven't heard the Elise before. Preferences are a big deal. Yeah, honestly it's really best to spend more than you often initially plan, otherwise you can go chasing a rabbit hole, problem is you don't always know what you want as impressions may not tell you much and experience does help. Don't have much experience with the Crack either. I'm content where I'm at for now. May eventually pick up a HD 650 again after I do some system upgrades, but in no rush at all, decided to put spending on this hobby on hiatus for a while. 

Nice post. I really want to try the DT1990 and the NH from both amps. We shall see.