[Liu Junyuan]

The reasons:
1. From his E12, an O2/Magni won't be much of an 'upgrade'.
2. People spend on intermediate products only to end up buying what they have been craving for in the beginning, so it's actually wise to have a little patience and buy a product that is a good mid-fi that can be kept for next say 5-7 years. Meanwhile, his current setup is not bad to enjoy music.
3. If only an amp's job be providing more gain then everyone would buy a O2/Magni/GD100 and never look elsewhere but that's not the case. HD650 specially is good with warm OTL amp.

I have been saving up for a LA Figaro 339 as well and wonder how much it differs from a Valhalla 2? I almost pulled the trigger on an used Ember 2 but it was sold before I got my hands on it.

I have had both side by side. I think the Valhalla 2 is a great amp, but the 339 wins for me. I ended up sending the V2 back; this is after owning the original Lyr for two years and also selling it.

The Valhalla 2 is very good. It is a very neutral OTL. It can also sound dry and lack macrodynamic slam. But in that price range, it is of the best you will find. It may be preferable to a Crack, depending on priorities. Compared to the 339, the HD650s sounded drier from the Valhalla 2 and sounded thinner. I used very high end tubes in it (75 Reflector silver shields). I found that rolling more neutral (and cheaper) tubes in the 339, I could approximate the timbre of the V2 and keep the latter's superior texture, immersion, depth, and microdynamic shading. The V2 did not really seem to change as much with tube rolling as did the 339.

Since I loved it, I had a hard time returning the V2 and only did so because I have to be choosy to afford other things. What I like about it was it's friendly plug and play kind of usability. If you wish, you can always trial it. The microdynamics, resolution, and staging were superior on the V2 to the Lyr with the HD650, though the latter excelled with macrodynamic slam. The Lyr is more ideal for planars and especially (for me) AKGs.

 

[cskippy]

Nice!  I've never heard a LaFigaro amp but they've always been intriguing.  

 

[DavidA]

  They are fantastic. Probably the best deal from them right now is the G-100 FE. The Violectric V281 is the best SS amp I've heard. The amps are just so transparent. 
 
I've found the HD 650 to sound good from mostly everything too. While I am more of a Beyer fan, the HD 600/650 will always have a soft spot for me. It's really only in hindsight I realize how good the HD 650 is. While I do prefer the new Tesla 2.0 Beyers, the HD 650 is a headphone I could always go back to and feel comfortable, I can't say that for most headphones in it's price range. The Valhalla 2 was mixed for me, I felt the HD 650 was one of the few headphones that sounded truly good on it to me, another one being the DT 1990. Haven't tried the HD 600 on it. 
 
The Garage Amps are not bad at all, I generally prefer them the Schiit's lower-end and mid-tier offerings, they seem to respond better to tube rolling and the versatility is nice. Haven't heard the Elise before. Preferences are a big deal. Yeah, honestly it's really best to spend more than you often initially plan, otherwise you can go chasing a rabbit hole, problem is you don't always know what you want as impressions may not tell you much and experience does help. Don't have much experience with the Crack either. I'm content where I'm at for now. May eventually pick up a HD 650 again after I do some system upgrades, but in no rush at all, decided to put spending on this hobby on hiatus for a while. 

The G-109 that a friend has was really good with both the HD650 and HE560 but I still prefer my BH Crack over it, but it actually ended up costing more than the G-109 after adding the SB, better caps and tubes and is crap with the HE560.  Also got to listen with the Elise, MicroZOTL2, ZDS, Hugo and Liquid Carbon, MicroZOTL2 is impressive with the HD650, about the same as the ZDS to me.  The Elise was only heard with the stock tubes which gives it a warm signature that works with the HD800 and T1 very well but with the HD650 warm + warm didn't sound very good.  The Hugo is a touch too warm with the HD650 but pairs very well with the HD800, T1 and HE560.   The Liquid Carbon does okay with the HD650 but is a touch on the warm side at times but its not offensive and the balanced output is the preferred connection on it.
 
The Ember is a great mid priced amp for learning the effect of tube rolling and the effect an amp's output impedance has on the sound with various headphones.  After owning the original Magni and trying the Vali / Vali2 I would agree that the Garage 1217 amps are a better value over the lower end Schiit gear even at their higher prices.
 
The Valhall2 was a mixed bag for me, with the HD650 it was pretty good but with the HD800 and T1 it was rather thin sounding, probably due to the stock power tubes since changing the driver tubes has little effect unlike the Lyr2 which has more noticeable changes with different tubes.  But I didn't spend too much time rolling tubes in the Valhalla2 once I noticed that it didn't pair well with the HD800 and T1.
 
 

Nice post. I really want to try the DT1990 and the NH from both amps. We shall see.

I'm waiting for a friend to bring over his DT1990 and I had the Nighthawk for a few weeks, it was just a bit too dark for me but the bass is solid and its more forgiving than the HD650 with poor recordings.

 

[kman1211]

Nice post. I really want to try the DT1990 and the NH from both amps. We shall see.

Both are good headphones, but to me the DT 1990 are something really special to me, I chose them over the Elear and NH. I also have the Amiron. The DT 1990 and Amiron are not just housing and pad differences, their drivers sound inherently different despite looking exactly the same and the drivers sound the best in their own housing, they take on some somewhat off characteristics if you swap housings. Sorta reminds me of when I experimented with swapping the HD 600 and HD 650 transducers(using the HD 600 screen/housing with the HD 650 drivers and vice versa), they look exactly the same but don't sound the same, they are tuned differently and the HD 650 transducers seem to be held to a higher standard the the HD 600's. On the Beyers, I get the feeling the DT 1990's drivers are held to a higher standard than the Amirons. 

 

[kman1211]

  The G-109 that a friend has was really good with both the HD650 and HE560 but I still prefer my BH Crack over it, but it actually ended up costing more than the G-109 after adding the SB, better caps and tubes and is crap with the HE560.  Also got to listen with the Elise, MicroZOTL2, ZDS, Hugo and Liquid Carbon, MicroZOTL2 is impressive with the HD650, about the same as the ZDS to me.  The Elise was only heard with the stock tubes which gives it a warm signature that works with the HD800 and T1 very well but with the HD650 warm + warm didn't sound very good.  The Hugo is a touch too warm with the HD650 but pairs very well with the HD800, T1 and HE560.   The Liquid Carbon does okay with the HD650 but is a touch on the warm side at times but its not offensive and the balanced output is the preferred connection on it.
 
The Ember is a great mid priced amp for learning the effect of tube rolling and the effect an amp's output impedance has on the sound with various headphones.  After owning the original Magni and trying the Vali / Vali2 I would agree that the Garage 1217 amps are a better value over the lower end Schiit gear even at their higher prices.
 
The Valhall2 was a mixed bag for me, with the HD650 it was pretty good but with the HD800 and T1 it was rather thin sounding, probably due to the stock power tubes since changing the driver tubes has little effect unlike the Lyr2 which has more noticeable changes with different tubes.  But I didn't spend too much time rolling tubes in the Valhalla2 once I noticed that it didn't pair well with the HD800 and T1.
 
 
I'm waiting for a friend to bring over his DT1990 and I had the Nighthawk for a few weeks, it was just a bit too dark for me but the bass is solid and its more forgiving than the HD650 with poor recordings.

The HD 650 is really a tube loving headphone, but some SS amps are really great with it. I don't mind HD 650 plus warm, but NH plus warm is too much even for me. 
 
Yeah, the Project amps must just use better caps or something on their amps than the lower-end Schiits. I don't like Schiit amps much until the Lyr 2 and that's after some tube rolling, etc. 
 
Same, I didn't like the Valhalla 2 with my T1.2 at all. The DT 1990 was fine since that headphone is so dynamic and has the fullest most robust sound of all the Tesla Beyers, it makes all the other Teslas sound a bit thin. I tried other tubes, beefy power cables(worked for the Lyr 2 and my Sony UDA-1 but no the Valhalla 2). It's like you can't get rid of the V2's thinness no matter what you do. 
 
I think you will really enjoy it, I personally view it as Beyers best headphone.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

I will see if I can trial a DT1990 to shootout against my HD650. I would think its parameters pair well with the 339/ZDS.

 

[MikeW]

315 at time of writing I been looking for a deal for two weeks.... this is best they been in awhile

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00018MSNI/ref=dra_a_rv_mr_hn_xx_P3115_200?tag=dradisplay-20&ascsubtag=6cb807b882852ff0fbd64f4502b63eb8_CT

 

[kman1211]

I will see if I can trial a DT1990 to shootout against my HD650. I would think its parameters pair well with the 339/ZDS.

Sounds good. The DT 1990 is quite hyper compared to the HD 650. I see them as complimentary headphones. I honestly feel Beyer often tunes their pro headphones a bit better than their consumer headphones. I personally found the DT 1990 more of an HD 600 upgrade. The Amiron would of been an HD 650 upgrade if it had more upper midrange body and a bit less treble as it shares a similar soft character to the HD 650. The Elear was excellent in many ways but honestly had problems with it's midrange body, just didn't have enough, it's like the image of the midrange was a little small but it was not thin, was kinda weird.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

Sounds good. The DT 1990 is quite hyper compared to the HD 650. I see them as complimentary headphones. I honestly feel Beyer often tunes their pro headphones a bit better than their consumer headphones. I personally found the DT 1990 more of an HD 600 upgrade. The Amiron would of been an HD 650 upgrade if it had more upper midrange body and a bit less treble as it shares a similar soft character to the HD 650. The Elear was excellent in many ways but honestly had problems with it's midrange body, just didn't have enough, it's like the image of the midrange was a little small but it was not thin, was kinda weird.

Your point about pro-gear sounds reassuring. I am a fan of the HD600 and the Utopia, which I also own, and both of which are brighter than a stock HD650. My HE-6s are also not dark. Which is to say I am not put off by that criteria. I have no interest in the Elear unless it is modded with new pads. I hope to be able to try these soon.

 

[kman1211]

Your point about pro-gear sounds reassuring. I am a fan of the HD600 and the Utopia, which I also own, and both of which are brighter than a stock HD650. My HE-6s are also not dark. Which is to say I am not put off by that criteria. I have no interest in the Elear unless it is modded with new pads. I hope to be able to try these soon.

Beyers pro gear tends to be darker, more midrange focused, more robust, and more intimate sounding. Their high-end consumer gear takes a more "audiophile" approach, more treble and soundstage size focused. I do like my Amiron's, but they are regulated to gaming, lower-level listening, show watching, and more relaxed genres(classical, soft rock, jazz, soft electronic,etc.), it fills in a similar role for me as the HD 650 despite it's quite different tuning. The DT 1990 is a jack of all trades, though with EDM or anything hyper/aggressive it's shines unlike anything I've owned. The DT 1990 has the least bothersome treble of all the Tesla's to my ears, well the DT 1770 too but it just doesn't sound as good as the DT 1990 to me. I dont think it will be a problem, it's the quality of the treble that matters the most in my experience and I find the treble of high quality, may be too much for some as it does have upper mid and treble dynamics which can make it intense to those used to relaxed upper ranges. I understand that, I honestly much preferred the Utopia to the Elear. 
 
I don't find the DT 1990 to fatigue me even at loud volumes at all, even when under-driven from like a phone. Only other headphones I've owned that caused me no fatigue at louder volumes have been the HD 650(it can fatigue me on the wrong system though) and the DT 480. The Elear fatigued me unless at the right volume.

 

[JWolf]

  The reasons:
1. From his E12, an O2/Magni won't be much of an 'upgrade'.
2. People spend on intermediate products only to end up buying what they have been craving for in the beginning, so it's actually wise to have a little patience and buy a product that is a good mid-fi that can be kept for next say 5-7 years. Meanwhile, his current setup is not bad to enjoy music.
3. If only an amp's job be providing more gain then everyone would buy a O2/Magni/GD100 and never look elsewhere but that's not the case. HD650 specially is good with warm OTL amp.
 
I have been saving up for a LA Figaro 339 as well and wonder how much it differs from a Valhalla 2? I almost pulled the trigger on an used Ember 2 but it was sold before I got my hands on it.

 
An amp's job is to provide more gain. An amp's job is not to change the sound.

 

[Dobrescu George]

An amp's job is to provide more gain. An amp's job is not to change the sound.

Yes.
But in practice , every single amp I tried had its own sound. Every single one... Not saying it is bad, but this happens.

 

[JWolf]

Yes.
But in practice , every single amp I tried had its own sound. Every single one... Not saying it is bad, but this happens.

 
So the solution is to find an amp as close to neutral as possible.

 

[JWolf]

   
How do you determine the sound of the source?

 
You use a headphone that the source player can handle and then you find an amp that closely gives you that sound. Then you can use that amp to drive your HD 650.

 

[ubs28]

Yes.
But in practice , every single amp I tried had its own sound. Every single one... Not saying it is bad, but this happens.

I agree. That is why the best amplifier for a particular headphone is not the most powerful one but the one that offers the best synergy for your sound preferences.