[wombatfi]

  I'm posting in this thread because everyone in this thread has probably used the HD650's (and probably owns a pair).  
 
I want to get new headphones for my wife.  She likes around-ear headphones (with plenty of space because she complains about her m50's hurting her ears) and she likes bass.
 
The problem is that Sennheiser seems to be king of comfort, but they're all open headphones lacking in bass.  My 650's have "acceptable" bass for open headphones, but she thinks they clamp too hard.

The million dollar question: are there any headphones out there with similar size/shape/weight/comfort to the HD series sennheisers that are closed and have good bass?  

I'm surprised to hear that since the HD650 have pretty strong bass and any more and I'd say it would be totally fake and booming.

 

[wombatfi]

My take on the HD600 vs. HD650 which I have both owned for a few years.
Running them on Benchmark DAC1 PRE.
 
The HD600 seems to have a small artificial hump in the treble right where it messes up violins a bit and tends to make most music sound not quite truly live like you are there in the room with it since the hump seems to mask stuff just about it, in a sense.
 
Anyway I did a lot of listening to both yesterday after I had made all of my recent comments. To add more and clarify:
 
I guess the HD650 sound stage really isn't any wider. I think I had gotten that impression because I had been using the HD600 for a lot of TV stuff where the audio is not always all that great and the HD650 only for music but also equally because the HD650 gives that feeling that you are literally in the room with the instruments which the HD600 never seems to quite do so I guess I was interpreting that as a wider sound stage, maybe I should have said there is something more somehow live about the sense of the HD650, maybe it's not actually left right wider but sort of more in some other direction or something.
 
As for the balance, I think ideal might be sort of like a mix between the two.

The HD600 has something weird in the treble that makes violins sound a bit fake and music in general to not quite have that live feel since the hump sort of veils some of the separation and detail in the rest of the treble in a way. Getting to violins again it can almost make they sound a trace electronic in a way and you don't hear the bow vibrating the string sort of in as natural a way as with the HD650. That peak seems to sort of mask the real treble a little and to my ears and the way I describe things makes the HD600 seem more veiled and less in the true treble and darker in the treble since the low part of that is peaked.
 
Again and again the HD650 just makes things sound more like you are truly there in the room.
 
That said, for certain things the HD650 might have a slightly odd hump in one part of the upper bass, mostly it doesn't matter too much, and for a decent number it maybe seems even a touch more realistic, but for a few things it can be a bit droning like with the 24bit, 192Hz(?) remaster for Jurassic Park soundtrack. In other ways the bass can be even cleaner and tighter and deeper than the HD600 which can also occasionally be just a trace unnaturally weak in some bass (although not nearly to the extent of the AKG 701, which also has the natural you are there presence and separate treble of the HD650 but is also thinner than both and too thin to be natural, something is just missing lower down that is not realistic).
 
The initial overall sonic impression is in many ways almost ideally natural from the HD600 and the HD650 can have a touch of that missing. OTOH the HD650 makes it sound more like you are truly listening to the instruments in the room with you and it doesn't have that fake treble bump that makes things sound less live and a bit off. If they could just chop that little treble bump the HD600 might be almost perfect. But that bump just is not natural and for most stuff it makes enough difference that the HD650 sounds better to me overall and more live. Violins for one, since they are something that makes it very clear, are not well separate enough in their timbre and they sound a bit fake and sort of smoothed and not rough and detailed and raw enough and a bit too boosted in a certain particular way, everything actually does, but it's easier to describe it with them. And it can be the same for female voices too. That fake mid-treble thingy, whatever it is in the HD600 just takes away natural rough detail in the treble and makes things sound less live and more veiled in a certain sense and too sort of tinkly and electronically smoothed or something.

Ideally I'd have the HD600 with a touch more of the tight perfection and reaction of the HD650 and with a good bit closer to the HD650 main treble to give a more sense of being there live and to not make violins and other stuff get that treble issue as well as a bit more of the HD650 bass extension and the bass overall (although without the touch of a hump), just sort of merge them, maybe 1 part HD600 to 2 parts HD650 or something along those lines.

 

[DavidA]

@wombatfi, you are not alone with the spike the HD-600 has in the treble, its one of those things that just bothered me and I think it might be that I'm sensitive to that peak in the 4/5khz range where the peak in the 6khz range of the HD-800 does not bother me

 

[bleudeciel16]

I'm surprised to hear that since the HD650 have pretty strong bass and any more and I'd say it would be totally fake and booming.

They have decent bass extension but not the best impact/punch. Best bass of any open headphones I've ever heard, however.

 

[Bonobo Loco]

So I've had my 650's for about 5 years now but didn't really appreciate them until recently when I got the Schiit Bifrost/Lyr2 combo. Now they've really come into their own. When people talk about the scaling with these HP's that's no joke. They are seriously amazing, and for the price they are unbeatable. 

 

[mysticstryk]

So I've had my 650's for about 5 years now but didn't really appreciate them until recently when I got the Schiit Bifrost/Lyr2 combo. Now they've really come into their own. When people talk about the scaling with these HP's that's no joke. They are seriously amazing, and for the price they are unbeatable. 

I'd love to hear them out of a gumby and zana deux someday.

 

[Bonobo Loco]

I'd love to hear them out of a gumby and zana deux someday. It's funny watching 1k+ headphones being outperformed by these over a decade old headphones.

In my case it's just that I've been using them a while and I think my ears are used to them. I'm sure the LCD2/3/4 are technically much better headphones, along with many other upper-tier models, but if I'm spending another grand or two on a new set of HP's then I'd need a bigger, better amp to justify the new HP. Frankly at this point in my life there are other things I'd rather spend the money on. Instead of 2k on an LCD3 and another 4k on an amp I'd buy myself a new bicycle and put a down payment on a new car. Diminishing returns need to be taken into account. There's a point where dumping more money on your system isn't really going to make your life much better. I like my headphones. There are other things I need way more than a new set of cans.

 

[Solrighal]

  In my case it's just that I've been using them a while and I think my ears are used to them. I'm sure the LCD2/3/4 are technically much better headphones, along with many other upper-tier models, but if I'm spending another grand or two on a new set of HP's then I'd need a bigger, better amp to justify the new HP. Frankly at this point in my life there are other things I'd rather spend the money on. Instead of 2k on an LCD3 and another 4k on an amp I'd buy myself a new bicycle and put a down payment on a new car. Diminishing returns need to be taken into account. There's a point where dumping more money on your system isn't really going to make your life much better. I like my headphones. There are other things I need way more than a new set of cans.

 
+1

 

[Rdrcr]

  So I've had my 650's for about 5 years now but didn't really appreciate them until recently when I got the Schiit Bifrost/Lyr2 combo. Now they've really come into their own. When people talk about the scaling with these HP's that's no joke. They are seriously amazing, and for the price they are unbeatable. 

I'd have to agree... 

 
Mike

 

[TheEldestBoy]

I'm posting this here because it relates directly to the HD650, and I'm hoping that some of you who know this headphone so well can provide some guidance:

I listen to my music at relatively low volumes (I have a bit of sound sensitivity and my ears get fatigued quicker than the average listener).

From what I've read, the HiFiMan 400s has a more present & less laid-back bottom-end (with the hifiman focus pads or the brainwavz pads) than the HD600/650. It also seems like the 400s will have more presence/sparkle in the high-end as well.

So... I'm wondering if the 400s might be better at lower volumes?

In other words, do the HD600/650s need to be listened to at louder volumes in order for the bass and treble to really make themselves audible/present. Can I get the same audibility/presence from the 400s at a lower volume?

I appreciate that some of you cannot offer a comparison to the 400S, but I'd still love to here your thoughts on just the HD650 as it relates to this question.

 

[delSol]

EXCELLENT question!
 
del Sol

 

[Mink]

I'm posting this here because it relates directly to the HD650, and I'm hoping that some of you who know this headphone so well can provide some guidance:

I listen to my music at relatively low volumes (I have a bit of sound sensitivity and my ears get fatigued quicker than the average listener).

From what I've read, the HiFiMan 400s has a more present & less laid-back bottom-end (with the hifiman focus pads or the brainwavz pads) than the HD600/650. It also seems like the 400s will have more presence/sparkle in the high-end as well.

So... I'm wondering if the 400s might be better at lower volumes?

In other words, do the HD600/650s need to be listened to at louder volumes in order for the bass and treble to really make themselves audible/present. Can I get the same audibility/presence from the 400s at a lower volume?

I appreciate that some of you cannot offer a comparison to the 400S, but I'd still love to here your thoughts on just the HD650 as it relates to this question.

 

Not a direct answer, but your question made me think of Tyll's review of the Shure 1540s.
http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/cool-comfy-and-competent-shure-srh1540-page-2#WbCCPg7vp3HQIMSB.97
 

Innerfidelity
By Tyll Hertsens • Posted: Apr 11, 2014
I felt the sound quality of the SRH1540 was especially superb at low listening levels. The slightly "U" shaped frequency response acted very nicely as a "loudness" contour and let the music remain very enjoyable at very safe volumes.

 

[DavidA]

I'm posting this here because it relates directly to the HD650, and I'm hoping that some of you who know this headphone so well can provide some guidance:

I listen to my music at relatively low volumes (I have a bit of sound sensitivity and my ears get fatigued quicker than the average listener).

From what I've read, the HiFiMan 400s has a more present & less laid-back bottom-end (with the hifiman focus pads or the brainwavz pads) than the HD600/650. It also seems like the 400s will have more presence/sparkle in the high-end as well.

So... I'm wondering if the 400s might be better at lower volumes?

In other words, do the HD600/650s need to be listened to at louder volumes in order for the bass and treble to really make themselves audible/present. Can I get the same audibility/presence from the 400s at a lower volume?

I appreciate that some of you cannot offer a comparison to the 400S, but I'd still love to here your thoughts on just the HD650 as it relates to this question.

I posted a reply in the HD-600 thread, hope that gives you a starting point.

 

[mysticstryk]

I'm not sure about the 400S, but the HD650 sounds great at low volumes to me.  I often will put something on rather low while I work on something else that needs my concentration.
 
I did own the 400i for awhile and found that it needed to be turned up a little more to get the bass response to be satisfactory. 

 

[Letmebefrank]

So I'm listening to the 24/96 Alan Parsons 4.1 mix of The Dark Side Of The Moon, and I have to say, this mix is just phenomenal on the HD650s. It was nice on my HD598, but it really shines on the HD650s. Of course, the most fun way to listen is in my living room with the Klipsch surround sound cranked up, but its a little too late at night for that!