[Rob49]

Pleased to hear, it's that way round !

 

[DaemonSire]

   
The process is fairly simple and straightforward. You'll need to harvest the rings from the old pair of pads. Just cut them out carefully. You can reuse the old foam that goes against the drivers. Insert the rings you harvested to the inside of the pads. Put the foam over the foam and then gently but firmly pop the new pads into place. 
 
PLEASE be carefully when pressing firmly not to dent the grills.
 
All this sounds complicated until you've done it once, then it's easy. The hm5 pads are thicker and will require some convincing to get to snap it place. But that's it. I really do love the hm5 pads on the 650. Thicker, more cushion and IMO sounds better. 

That's great, thanks for the detailed explanation.  I've been meaning to replace the earpads on mine and was just going to buy the stock ones at over $60/pair (CAD).  This is quite a bit cheaper and if it sounds better, than that's even more of a deal.
 
So does the link I referenced seem to be the same ones?

 

[iancraig10]

I'm surprised that the hm5 pads don't raise the bass actually. Or at least the mid bass, or is it the velour ones that you're using?

 

[MattTCG]

  That's great, thanks for the detailed explanation.  I've been meaning to replace the earpads on mine and was just going to buy the stock ones at over $60/pair (CAD).  This is quite a bit cheaper and if it sounds better, than that's even more of a deal.
 
So does the link I referenced seem to be the same ones?

 
As far I can tell, yes. 

I'm surprised that the hm5 pads don't raise the bass actually. Or at least the mid bass, or is it the velour ones that you're using?

They do raise the mid bass a dash. Nothing crazy but it's there. 

 

[iancraig10]

Oh ok. I thought as much since that has always been consistent with any headphone I've put them onto. Thanks.

 

[audiojun]

   
I can't believe some people are removing that "plastic spider". It's pretty obvious what that is, if you have any common sense that is. It's a very important structural element that makes the entire driver assembly stiffer, keeps the magnet securely in it's place and enables the dampening foam to be secured above the hole and give the driver an optimal amount of airflow on top of that. Removing that can only hurt the sound and in the long run reduce the reliability of the headphone because now the only thing holding the magnet in place is a little bit of glue. The diaphragm of the driver vibrates in a very precise way, and in order to do that, the structure it's attached to has to be as solid as possible. Making it less solid can't possible improve the sound, if you do hear an improvement, then it's just placebo because you want to hear an improvement.
 
I still don't understand how people think they can improve the sound by removing pieces off a headphone that are there for a very good reason. People who developed these headphones know infinitely more about engineering and acoustics than you do, so don't insult their work and intelligence by claiming you can "improve" the headphones by doing these mods that literally do nothing else but ruin the original state of the headphone. You're not improving them with "coin mods" or removing the foams, removing the structural elements, or doing any other think that goes against logic and common sense when we're talking about acoustics, you're making their sound more uneven and taking them further away from what they were meant to do in their original form. They don't sound the way they do by accident, they were designed that way.
 
I'm sorry for being this direct, but the amount of false science on this web site has reached intolerable levels, and it will literally make some people ruin their headphones after reading some of the ******** around here. 

I felt my HD650 was too dampened/stiffer compared to my HD600. If removing the spider decreased the dampening then that's good because my Modded HD650 sounds way better this way. With the spider removed, my driver magnet stays perfectly in place, it doesn't fall out or move around.

 

[DavidA]

   
As I said...."never being satisfied" lol
 
"but designers don't always get it right".......but what IS right ! ?? ( When as you imply, all headphones are different & "none of them are right really" ) I would rather go by the conclusion of what my ears indicate, rather than a measurement. ( With all due respect ! )
 
Enjoy your listening.....and to any "compulsive modder", I hope you find the time, to do just that !

I see your point of view but as you noted "what is right" is up to the individual, since I'm an engineer I like to "fix" things that I think are not "right" if it is within my skills.  There are some who "mod" things just to modify and as you say a "compulsive modder" but I think most get in to modding due to a short coming of the original designers compromise due to cost or engineering difficulties.
 
Are changing cables considered a mod?  Not to me since they don't change the sound (some will argue with this) but changing cables is a engineering problem when they are "too short" "too long" "get tangled/kink (HD-700)" or "too microphonic"
 
I also look at modding as something that what an individual does to his or her headphone is their prerogative, I have a problem when the modder says its the only way to correct a "problem" with the headphone and pass it off as the be all know all.  Some beginners don't know the difference and they are the ones who make changes just because they read that this or that mod was good without knowing the full reason for the mod.
 
Sorry for the rant, have a slight hang over this morning and had to walk the dog since the GF is still sleeping

 

[Solrighal]

There are people out there who wouldn't even consider using EQ but will happily take a knife to their headphones.

 

[DavidA]

  There are people out there who wouldn't even consider using EQ but will happily take a knife to their headphones.

I'm one of them, lol

  but so far only been "operating" on:
Sony (MDR-1A-dynamat in cup, close off part of top vent)
V-Moda (Crossfade LP-new drivers)
Fostex (TH-600-dynamat in cup, removable cables)
Grado (SR-225e-wood cups, dynamat, sorbothane, felt, new cable: RS2e-new cable)
Stax (SRD-40-new mount for different ear pads)
Beyer (DT-990 premium, T1-removable cable for both)
Hifiman (HE-400: grill, dynamat and headband; 400i: grill; 560-grill)
Haven't touched any Sennheiser except for PX-100ii for SennGrado build.

 

[mikoss]

I'm lazy and would happily take software EQ over physical mods. I tried Sonarworks with the 650's for the trial period... I found that I perceived the overall resolution suffered at the cost of changing the FR. I was using Gumby and the Zana Deux in my setup, and the original ZD is basically built for the stock 650 FR. It tends to have sharper treble, as well as a fleshed out bass... maybe this just didn't work with the curve in Sonarworks. I'm hearing more resolution with the physical mod, just picking up details and nuances that were buried before, while retaining basically the same FR.
 
I've heard from a lot of people using Sonarworks who enjoy it, which is totally cool. I think the people complaining about modding headphones are as ridiculous as people who complain about people using EQ. Haven't heard back from the angry man yet... I will send a peace offering of some chocolate Easter eggs to Sennheiser on behalf of everyone who thinks their foam pads sound better with a hole in the middle 

 

[James McBride]

   
The process is fairly simple and straightforward. You'll need to harvest the rings from the old pair of pads. Just cut them out carefully. You can reuse the old foam that goes against the drivers. Insert the rings you harvested to the inside of the pads. Put the foam over the foam and then gently but firmly pop the new pads into place. 
 
PLEASE be carefully when pressing firmly not to dent the grills.
 
All this sounds complicated until you've done it once, then it's easy. The hm5 pads are thicker and will require some convincing to get to snap it place. But that's it. I really do love the hm5 pads on the 650. Thicker, more cushion and IMO sounds better. 

 
I added the hm5 velour pads tonight.I glued the two rings back together. I took the stock inner foam and placed it inside the earpad after cutting a nickel sized hole in it. I left the HM5 thin material in place to keep hair and debris out of the driver. Rear foamy is also removed. I am VERY happy with the sound now and they are much more comfortable. Modified my EQ as well.
 
https://goo.gl/photos/eMjY67rguriuytZq8
https://goo.gl/photos/edU5DjgvWntosD5g8
https://goo.gl/photos/iWGhzMzt8xJBkkqC7
https://goo.gl/photos/UyQqUuxYXNtAcQm57

 

[iancraig10]

EQ doesn't do anything for cup resonances and isn't portable, so it has its disadvantages too. It's also quite common for eq to be applied in the wrong place or have too much, which is why commercial software like Sonarworks is effective. It is based on measurements and not just by 'ear'. Bad EQ is no better than a bad headphone really.

I'd only consider modding if I felt that the 'problem' warranted it myself.

I did feel that lumping all modders into one box of obssessives was simplistic though and is the kind of attitude that imo actively tries to stimulate a typical, daft hifi argument.

 

[Solrighal]

EQ doesn't do anything for cup resonances and isn't portable, so it has its disadvantages too. It's also quite common for eq to be applied in the wrong place or have too much, which is why commercial software like Sonarworks is effective. It is based on measurements and not just by 'ear'. Bad EQ is no better than a bad headphone really.

I'd only consider modding if I felt that the 'problem' warranted it myself.

I did feel that lumping all modders into one box of obssessives was simplistic though and is the kind of attitude that imo actively tries to stimulate a typical, daft hifi argument.

 
I agree but these people do exist. If someone's paid the money and they want to butcher their purchase that's fair enough but to do so without at least attempting EQ first is madness imo.

 

[Rob49]

  but I think most get in to modding due to a short coming of the original designers compromise due to cost or engineering difficulties.
 
 
 
 
Sorry for the rant, have a slight hang over this morning and had to walk the dog since the GF is still sleeping

 
As you say, it's a person's individual choice. ( I haven't got a problem with that, just trying to understand the mentality of it.....if you weren't happy with your TV....would you take the back of it & mess ! ? )
 
There must be a hell of a lot of incompetent headphone makers ! ( That don't care about quality standard's ! ?? ) What about very expensive headphones ??
 
( You're just grumpy, because you couldn't devote more time to modifying ! lol )
 

 
I'm one of them, lol

  but so far only been "operating" on:
Sony (MDR-1A-dynamat in cup, close off part of top vent)
V-Moda (Crossfade LP-new drivers)
Fostex (TH-600-dynamat in cup, removable cables)
Grado (SR-225e-wood cups, dynamat, sorbothane, felt, new cable: RS2e-new cable)
Stax (SRD-40-new mount for different ear pads)
Beyer (DT-990 premium, T1-removable cable for both)
Hifiman (HE-400: grill, dynamat and headband; 400i: grill; 560-grill)
Haven't touched any Sennheiser except for PX-100ii for SennGrado build.

 
What actually is your occupation ? A "Headphone Surgeon" ?

 

[iancraig10]

I agree but these people do exist. If someone's paid the money and they want to butcher their purchase that's fair enough but to do so without at least attempting EQ first is madness imo.

Yes, eq is a good starting point in order to try and identify frequency response problems but even better if it follows accurate measurements. Then it's deadly, as long as the headphone's not a ringer!!

I think what's being refered to here are those people who buy a headphone and modify it, whatever. For me, it's just a means to an end when I just would like something tweaked a bit.

They can be improved as long as they're close in the first place!! Otherwise, it's probably better to get something else. Some headphones don't respond that well to eq; especially if they're a long way off in the first place.

A sensible modder might notice something subjectively first and measure the frequency response before 'pulling out the knife.' I think the comments earlier were aimed at people who mod no matter what, resulting in some cases in a headphone that has more problems than when they started as a result!!

For those who pull out the foam on the front or mod with a hole, measurements show that it can introduce ringing higher up in the frequency, so you may not have noticed yet. The felt on the front seems to control that aspect so taking it away may well increase perceived treble response, but introduce a little ring as well. The 'hole' ifea might be a good compromise I guess.

The Senn is really good eq'd though and is one of the best I've heard when the bottom end is filled in for a proper sub-bass. Certainly at its price level.