[MrScary]

Not knocking those doing the foam mods, but I feel it needs to be stated yet again how vitally important synergy is with these cans. Sure they can sound very good with minimum consideration to components in a setup, but it's quite apparent to me how responsive the HD650 is to changes and what's heard is the sum of the parts before the cans. I've heard my HD650 sound thin, hollow, metallic, etched, clinical, as well slow, muddy, smeared and somewhat veiled. I feel I've gone the spectrum with these cans and it's all been a result of the various configuration options in my setup. This tells me that the common complaints aren't inherent in the HD650.
 
Those familiar with my gear may scratch their heads at the warm signature that's apparent at every step (from dac output stage, to tubes in the amp, to the cable). Based on Head-Fi mythology, I should be hearing the slowest, most veiled and muddy signature known to man. Instead I scratch my head at the authority and slam, the width and layering of the soundstage, the energetic but smooth midrange, the dynamics and musicality, and the lack of the dreaded veil to stifle what I'm hearing.

Well said.

 

[tdockweiler]

Clinical? That's hard to believe, but if you heard it, then I believe you! I just had this weird image in my head of the HD-650 radically changing into a clone of the DT-880 (or DT-48e?)

I liked that headphone but it made 30% of my music sound like garbage. I loved the DT-880 for electronic music.
 
I do absolutely believe in amp synergy myself too. My HD-650 changed and sounded different with every single amp I had. Probably tried it with 4 or 5. I wonder why so many people say this is not possible? With my Micro amp it actually sounded similar in many ways to my HD-598?! Well, the mids at least. I always found the 650 definitely changed more than my HD-600 with better amps. HD-600 is nice because it just sounded so less picky about amps.
 
Then when a specific amp doesn't give you enough change you can try to find a cable with specific qualities...I won't go there or I might get a lecture on cables

 
For many, getting the HD-650 to sound just how you want can be a bit of a hassle, but it's all worth it. My HD-650 was just as picky about amping as my K702. My best advice is to get an amp that's said to have perfect synergy with it obviously. Even when I did that, the results were not always to my liking so it often just comes down to your own preferences. I think that's why I picked my Micro Amp over some of the others. I believe the Micro Amps will bring forward the mids a tad and makes it more fun to listen to. Some will prefer say the Asgard or whatever else is popular these days.
 
Thanks to the K702 and HD-650 I've learned more in the last 3 weeks than I have in the last year! With all my previous headphones I could connect them to a any decent amp and they'd sound great.
 
I also do believe that bad amp synergy can definitely keep a person from loving a headphone. Many would find this hard to believe, but it was true for me (with the K702 and HD-650). People seem to always say this is not possible!
 
 
BTW I mentioned this before, but someday I'd like to hear from someone that has both the HD-598 AND HD-650. I'd like to see if it's possible for them to make the HD-650's soundstage as large as the 598 and with what amp. If that's possible it'd sure be nice! My soundstage got larger with a new cable and amp, but not quite as large as the HD-598's soundstage or even the K601. It's not a big deal for me though. So yes, I know that amps make it larger, but there has to be a limit right?
 
I like the size of the HD-650's soundstage and I imagine that very few fans of the HD-650 would want it any larger than it already is, but I might be wrong!
 
Quote:

Not knocking those doing the foam mods, but I feel it needs to be stated yet again how vitally important synergy is with these cans. Sure they can sound very good with minimum consideration to components in a setup, but it's quite apparent to me how responsive the HD650 is to changes and what's heard is the sum of the parts before the cans. I've heard my HD650 sound thin, hollow, metallic, etched, clinical, as well slow, muddy, smeared and somewhat veiled. I feel I've gone the spectrum with these cans and it's all been a result of the various configuration options in my setup. This tells me that the common complaints aren't inherent in the HD650.
 
Those familiar with my gear may scratch their heads at the warm signature that's apparent at every step (from dac output stage, to tubes in the amp, to the cable). Based on Head-Fi mythology, I should be hearing the slowest, most veiled and muddy signature known to man. Instead I scratch my head at the authority and slam, the width and layering of the soundstage, the energetic but smooth midrange, the dynamics and musicality, and the lack of the dreaded veil to stifle what I'm hearing.

 

 

[scottiebabie]

tdockweiler u took the words right out of my mouth. most everythang u says about the 650s rhymes with ma ears. perhaps opinions are all over the pls cos alot of folks dont realize how important a role 'proper' amplification plays. yes bass can be tight or flabby, mids laidback or grado-like forward, highs detailed or chainsaw chopped all depending on juice they are fed.
 
whats consistent to my ears is the 650s overall smoothness & rolloff highs regardless of any amps i've tried it with which made me realize cables are the next step forward. i've plans to diy cryo mogami cables for it & a K702 im getting begining of next month in a trade. i'll soon hear for myself if the 702s are the 650s diabolical evil twin.
 
regardless i agree with everything u just wrote & certainly 'clinical' the 650s are anything but.

 

[LugBug1]

I couldn't agree more (olor1n), after all, I spent 5 years with my 650's unmodded and loved them. I think the foam mod is one of those tweeks that you're only going to find out about on forums like this, it's free (unlike cables) and adds a different flavour, some love it, some don't, simple as.
 In regards to soundstage (tdockweiler), the biggest difference that I have heard with the 650's is when I went from solid state to hybrid. I'd call it a dramatic change. They really opened up and It seemed that I could hear instruments coming from different parts of my room! I was so used to the controlled soundstage of S/S.
I'm now used to the tube soundstage and ofcourse with this hobby I now want more!! (but more of what? I'm not sure..) It's the pursuit of perfection, a perfection that doesn't actually exsist, and so its all about the journey!  

 
 
Incidently, I've recently tried this cable (silver plated copper) it is one of the cheapest on the market, I'd say that it is a worthwhile buy if you want to try a new flavour. It does add more bass and sharpness at the top (for better or worse), but it's not the last word in refinement.It looks nice however, but feels a little plasticky and stiff. I gave it 2 days before I had to change back to my fave bulky ugly copper job! 
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Upgrade-cable-Sennheiser-HD650-600-580-540-HD25-/390290899896?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adf2683b8

 

[olor1n]

Quote:

I couldn't agree more (olor1n), after all, I spent 5 years with my 650's unmodded and loved them. I think the foam mod is one of those tweeks that you're only going to find out about on forums like this, it's free (unlike cables) and adds a different flavour, some love it, some don't, simple as.
 In regards to soundstage (tdockweiler), the biggest difference that I have heard with the 650's is when I went from solid state to hybrid. I'd call it a dramatic change. They really opened up and It seemed that I could hear instruments coming from different parts of my room! I was so used to the controlled soundstage of S/S.
I'm now used to the tube soundstage and ofcourse with this hobby I now want more!! (but more of what? I'm not sure..) It's the pursuit of perfection, a perfection that doesn't actually exsist, and so its all about the journey!  

 
 
Incidently, I've recently tried this cable (silver plated copper) it is one of the cheapest on the market, I'd say that it is a worthwhile buy if you want to try a new flavour. It does add more bass and sharpness at the top (for better or worse), but it's not the last word in refinement.It looks nice however, but feels a little plasticky and stiff. I gave it 2 days before I had to change back to my fave bulky ugly copper job! 
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Upgrade-cable-Sennheiser-HD650-600-580-540-HD25-/390290899896?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5adf2683b8

Yep, I find the imaging through the Lyr to be a significant improvement over my ss amps.
 
Btw, I don't associate "clinical" with heightened treble, but with high resolve and a cold transparent quality. It's a matter of semantics, but I stand by my statement.
 

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

 
whats consistent to my ears is the 650s overall smoothness & rolloff highs regardless of any amps i've tried it with which made me realize cables are the next step forward. i've plans to diy cryo mogami cables for it & a K702 im getting begining of next month in a trade. i'll soon hear for myself if the 702s are the 650s diabolical evil twin.
 

 
Making DIY Sennheiser cables is really fun and not too difficult, even for someone like me who isn't highly skilled with a soldering iron. Soldering the Sennheiser plugs was quite easy as long as you don't accidentally fry the plastic (I didn't thankfully). Best advice is to not ignore the flux!
 
Going from the HD-650 to a K702 could be a shocking experience. Just because they sound so different. I always complaining about the annoying treble on my K702 and always used the HD-650 and K601 because of them being less fatiguing. Since the K702 was never on my head (just for gaming) I kept them downstairs and burned them in from 40 hours to until about 80. Wow, what a huge difference! The treble is so smooth now and even the bass has improved. Not everyone believes in burn-in, but even for those that don't, just try it with the K702 if you have issues with it's treble before getting rid of it. If it sounds great out of the box, then burn-in isn't needed.
 
Previously I kept thinking they're not good for some music due to how it sometimes presents music as being a tad more distant, but now I couldn't even say that. It now feels more like a 2 row back experience instead of like 3 or 4.
 
I think the K702 is one headphone that many people too easily give up on due to requiring a ton of burn-in. Strangely I've never needed to burn-in any of my Sennheiser headphones to sound great. Many headphones I had never needed any. A few here and there did, but not all.
 
BTW I think the HD-650 benefits more from cable upgrades. The K702 still has a 1" wire going from the metal headband rod to the driver. Still a slight improvement though and it's best to remove all the internal wires if you use the more expensive wire such as Cardas or Double Helix or it may be pointless. I'm not sure about this though.
 
The bass right now is quite nice with a Mogami cable and tons of burn-in.
 
One negative I've found is that when you have a headphone amp that has perfect synergy with the HD-650 (like the Asgard some say) it often will sound like garbage with the K702!  I found an amp that's equally good with both, but it could be tricky, but I'm not sure and maybe I got lucky.
 
 

 

[scottiebabie]

i started off a cable atheist (with similar attitude on burn-in too) but personal listening experiences have taught me otherwise - thx god im not so 'educated' i got stupid! LOL
 
yaa im thinking diy'in a recable for both the 650 & 702 (arriving eta june 1st) would be a fun & interesting project. i think im gonna stick with a relatively cheap cryo'd mogami @$2/ft. i've no doubt the more exotic cable varieties mite give me more but maybe instead of 'more', its merely lateral upgrade with a another variation. i've heard plenty about the mogami from both u & others so the cheapsk8er'fier in me's gonna stick with the 'cheap' option.
 
instead, i mite do a dual entry on the 702 esp when i pop the cover to checkout the complexity of the innards. dual entry's also a great bet for a 4pin XLR termination as i already have a XLR-TRS adapter cable (from the HE5LE). for sure im terminating the 650 with the 4pin XLR so i can try a direct hookup to my amps speaker taps. LOL
 
my current 'headamps' are a dual combo vintage home amps of a Pioneer SA-7500 (very airy with upfront mids & upper details, tight punchy bass) & a Sansui AU-517 (heftier bottom with deeper & more organic bass, smoother lusher sweeter mids) - the 'Sui AU-517 serves as my primary headamp for the 5LE orthos while the 650 sounds good with either depending on the siggy i want. i have a funny feeling the deeper bassier lusher sansui mite by more synergistic match with the K702. we'll see. btw both of them drive my recabled Yuin PK1 mitey fine too.
 

 

[Unfie]

I'm going to pull the trigger on these in a few months, but I'm still unsure about which dac/amp to get it with. The Nuforce Icon HDP seems to be a good choice for the $500 or less price range, but I can't help but wonder if it's still the best choice. Yes, I have done topic searches, but things change. I've also heard some people say that there are better alternatives to the HDP for the price point. Still, I'd rather not have to import a dac/amp from China, and the HDP seems readily available on Amazon...

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

I'm going to pull the trigger on these in a few months, but I'm still unsure about which dac/amp to get it with. The Nuforce Icon HDP seems to be a good choice for the $500 or less price range, but I can't help but wonder if it's still the best choice. Yes, I have done topic searches, but things change. I've also heard some people say that there are better alternatives to the HDP for the price point. Still, I'd rather not have to import a dac/amp from China, and the HDP seems readily available on Amazon...

Pacific Valve is the Audio-GD US distributor.  They service in the states as well.  So if op-amp rolling sounds good to you (read: flexibility & personalization) the FUN's as good an option and cheaper too.
 

 

[Unfie]

 
Quote:

Quote:

Pacific Valve is the Audio-GD US distributor.  They service in the states as well.  So if op-amp rolling sounds good to you (read: flexibility & personalization) the FUN's as good an option and cheaper too.
 

Okay, so I'm browsing their website and they have an assortment of fabulous products, but many of them take 30-60 days to ship. Is there a big difference between the basic and upgraded versions of the FUN dac? How about the M2Tech EVO and the TeraDak Chameleon?
 

 

[Feynman]

Okay so now I have almost completed by headphone setup. It is as follows Macbook Pro ---> music streamer II 2011 ---> Bottlehead Crack ---> HD650! 
Sounds lovely, but I would like to do build a cable, I've heard and read alot about the mogami cables but is there a good online shop where you can buy the cable by the metre? I checked their online site but it's so confusing with these cable-manufacturers sites....!

 

[sphinxvc]

Quote:

Okay, so I'm browsing their website and they have an assortment of fabulous products, but many of them take 30-60 days to ship. Is there a big difference between the basic and upgraded versions of the FUN dac? How about the M2Tech EVO and the TeraDak Chameleon?
 

 
I'd go with the stock A version which they happen to have in stock.  Says they can ship that out in 4-7 days.
 
I wouldn't go with Pacific Valve tinkered version which is what they call the "upgraded" version.
 
 

 

[MrScary]

Well after 4 years of not modding my HD650's I took off my LCD-2's and did the foam mod. All I can say is wow what a difference the 650's really woke up thanks for the great MOD LugBug1.
 
 
 

 

[LugBug1]

Quote:

Well after 4 years of not modding my HD650's I took off my LCD-2's and did the foam mod. All I can say is wow what a difference the 650's really woke up thanks for the great MOD LugBug1.
 
 
 

No probs, pleased you're enjoying it. I would never go back to stock now, it really opens them up.
 
 

 

[mayassa]

Well my 650's came in yesterday, burning them in now and ordered a Lyr from Jason over at Schiit, now all I need is a decent DAC, any suggestions to match my combo?