[Sal1950]

I believe it's definitely fair to call the HD 800 bright.  Customer complaints is what led to the 800S release.

 

[theblueprint]

I believe it's definitely fair to call the HD 800 bright.  Customer complaints is what led to the 800S release.

I've been reading that the 800S is still bright tonality-wise. It's not a 650 version to the 600, but an 800 without its treble spike.

 

[Arniesb]

I've been reading that the 800S is still bright tonality-wise. It's not a 650 version to the 600, but an 800 without its treble spike.

For some people everything is too bright or to warm. Judging by graphs it should be near perfect headphone if you want Only one Headphone that can do it all.

 

[Darien]

sorry if this is a dumb question, but today i wanted to see how my 650hd would sound on my nexus 4 cellphone, and obviously i could hear they were much weaker, i listend on the phone with them for about 20 minutes, does doing that - using them with a cellphoen with no amp - cause any damage in any way?

 

[zentg]

.

 

[EinZweiDrei]

Why do people get this headphone without planning on getting an amp anyways? Nope your hd650 is perfectly fine.

 

[Sal1950]

  sorry if this is a dumb question, but today i wanted to see how my 650hd would sound on my nexus 4 cellphone, and obviously i could hear they were much weaker, i listend on the phone with them for about 20 minutes, does doing that - using them with a cellphoen with no amp - cause any damage in any way?

Nope, won't hurt the headphones in any way.
Just suck your cellphones battery dead real fast.  LOL

 

[Sal1950]

I've been reading that the 800S is still bright tonality-wise. It's not a 650 version to the 600, but an 800 without its treble spike.

 
 

For some people everything is too bright or to warm. Judging by graphs it should be near perfect headphone if you want Only one Headphone that can do it all.

Some people can't tell the difference between highly detailed and overly bright.

 

[castleofargh]

 

I've been reading that the 800S is still bright tonality-wise. It's not a 650 version to the 600, but an 800 without its treble spike.

For some people everything is too bright or to warm. Judging by graphs it should be near perfect headphone if you want Only one Headphone that can do it all.

graphs use their own compensation curve(and smoothing) as an attempt to aim for some average "maybe that sounds neutral when it's flat?" kind of graph. that's IMO a mistake as it mislead people into thinking a flat graph is neutral sounding. I would rather see raw measurements of headphones to make it clear that one graph alone doesn't mean crap and flat isn't neutral.
the power of measurements is in comparisons between 2 headphones measured with the same system in the same way. then you can look at the variations between both headphones and mostly remove the testing gear from the equation. graphs are a powerful comparison tool, but IMO a very poor tool when it comes to decide what is neutral in one single graph. in fact there isn't a defined neutral for headphones. we know it's not too far off of diffuse field compensation, but that's about it.

 

[jdpark]

 
graphs use their own compensation curve(and smoothing) as an attempt to aim for some average "maybe that sounds neutral when it's flat?" kind of graph. that's IMO a mistake as it mislead people into thinking a flat graph is neutral sounding. I would rather see raw measurements of headphones to make it clear that one graph alone doesn't mean crap and flat isn't neutral.
the power of measurements is in comparisons between 2 headphones measured with the same system in the same way. then you can look at the variations between both headphones and mostly remove the testing gear from the equation. graphs are a powerful comparison tool, but IMO a very poor tool when it comes to decide what is neutral in one single graph. in fact there isn't a defined neutral for headphones. we know it's not too far off of diffuse field compensation, but that's about it.

Actually flat is neutral. But our hearing usually isn't neutral. We are more sensitive (usually to upper mids and low highs) and less sensitive to frequencies (usually very low or very high frequencies). I agree that flat doesn't necessarily mean 'neutral sounding', but it is neutral. Even our left and right ear hear differently, which headphone manufacturers obviously take into account. There are a number of studies showing what might be a target range for headphones, and that graph usually isn't flat. However, one must take into account that many systems and/or recordings themselves try to adjust to a sound that is expected to sound pleasing to most people, so having flat-lined headphones is probably going to reflect most accurately what the recording engineer wanted you to hear. If you have non-linear headphones, they're going to double up on exaggerations in the frequencies that are already present in the recordings.
 
With the late 1990s-present day loudness wars going on, there are fewer and fewer truly "neutral sounding" pop recordings. Everyone in the industry wants to sound okay on earbuds and Beats headphones which have crazy roll off in the highs, so when you put that crap on a truly flat headphone it's going to sound weird and usually way too bright.
 
On the other hand, if you put really well-recorded acoustic music with minimal editing into a flat-lined headphone, all things considered together, and assuming your system is neutral, it is not only going to sound neutral, but it is going to sound amazing. Now, you put well-recorded bus honking into a flat-lined headphone, and it's also going to sound terrible, as it should.
 
Unfortunately there's no such thing as a headphone that works perfectly for all music. Still, if you have tons of well-recorded acoustic music you are probably going to want a flat-lined headphone (more or less).  

 

[castleofargh]

but flat lines measurement with which compensation curve? ^_^ raw measurement showing electrically flat response? diffuse field compensation? free field compensation? harman target? the target from the golderears website? the "neutral" curve of etymotic? they're all different stuff. most headphone graphs follow some general ideas (the need for about 10db boost around 3khz, the need to roll off trebles after that), but they're all different enough for someone to think it's too bright or doesn't have enough bass or whatever. the flat line is a lie in itself because flat only means it follows some reference signature. that reference signature for headphone hasn't clearly been defined yet. we tend to role with diffuse field compensation and some rather strong smoothing, but at least to me, flat line in that system does not sound neutral. and most feedbacks about headphones seem to agree with me. did you look the usual diffuse field compensated graph of a hd800? if we followed it we would be inclined to boost the mids

. they already sound plenty bright to me with enough presence in the mids. so my hearing is wrong, or the graph is wrong, but something isn't working with that idea of flat line sounding neutral ^_^.

 

[iancraig10]

Flat line response or neutral has become the focus of interest from most serious headphone users now although the ideal response curve has not yet been ultimately defined and is still really being redefined.

This has happened due to more people taking headphone response measurements which tells more about purely frequency reponse and timbre than anything else. There are other variances to consider in a headphone as well so it is very difficult to define what constitutes the 'best' headphone. The best was supposed to have been the hd800 with its raised treble response and now, even the 'best' has been redefined in some way via the hd800s.

I do wonder whether we are becoming neurotic about this idea of 'flat' when really, the purpose of a headphone is to access recordings and supply entertainment. It seems to me that many are becoming dominated by the idea of the 'flat' headphone and so listening to the gear rather than the rather 'unflat' recording coming from the other end of the wire.

Headphones that have been modded to 'flat' don't always sound that great in the modern world of music manipulation from studios and in fact, they can sound extremely 'underwhelming' in comparison to some others.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

No graph by a lab can gauge the full complexity of auditory perception of music by the human brain. For me, the "best" headphone is the one(s) that I just cannot take off my head while I play my music from my sources and my amps. (Multiple "my"'s  there). Period. Clicks on all cylinders, including physical comfort.

 

[iancraig10]

Headphone development could easily emulate the developent in hifi in the 70s and 80s where for instance, amplifiers that measured flat and produced a great sine wave response were considered the 'best'.

With critcal information left out, it often looked as though an amp was better than it actually was and similar could happen in the headphone world.

A maker who produces the flat response (therefore best?) headphone available at a nice premium price. We've been seeing the prices rocket over the past year or so as well, so creating a niche market.

In that regard, the hd650 has stayed rock solid in some guise for a long time, since my first hd580 (and before), they've always been regarded as amazing value for money and I'm glad to see that Sennheiser didn't hike the price, making it even better value. Not just because of its frequency response either.

 

[HeavenNotes]

No graph by a lab can gauge the full complexity of auditory perception of music by the human brain. For me, the "best" headphone is the one(s) that I just cannot take off my head while I play my music from my sources and my amps. (Multiple "my"'s  there). Period. Clicks on all cylinders, including physical comfort.

Right!