[Dynamo]

Sennheiser is having a nice little rebate:
 
http://en-us.sennheiser.com/news-attention-music-lovers-and-content-creators-sennheiser-announces-spring-rebate-on-select-headphones-microphones-and-wireless-systems
 
You can get $50 rebate for HD650. If you get it with a deal like razordogaudio, then you are essentially looking at a $350 for a pair of brand new HD650's 

 

 

[HPiper]

   
Though I think that DAC's would be less of a concern in terms of audible improvement: there's only so much of 32 bit 192khz conversion which can be done, and so much output circuitry one can do.
 
I have read from from a review that the bifrost with uber was more resolving than the ODAC, with the 650s, but wasn't the improvement they'd expect for the difference in price.
 
Some even have said that in terms of neutrality, there's no benefit in upgrading to the benchmark DAC1 from the ODAC.
 
I would totally spend the money to see if these claims are rightfully so, but alas I have no funds. With the general consensus that the DAC reaches diminishing returns much earlier, this becomes the reason why I am very much interested in the Crack as the next pairing to my HD650's.

I have also read several articles stating that all dacs will sound the same providing they are operating within their design parameters no matter what the cost (or lack of cost). I don't happen to believe that but those articles wouldn't exist unless some people did.

 

[Transformatron]

well, I am now following this thread as I will be ordering my HD650's here shortly, but I do have a question and have only gotten through 1/3 of the thread so far so please be nice.

I am thinking about getting one of these amps;
tubemaster
Little Dot mkiv
Schiit Vali

now this is based off what I have researched so far...

Should I get the matching Mav Audio DAC for the tubemaster, the Modi for the Vali or ? for the Little Dot mkiv


Your help, direction and feedback is appreciated in advance!!!

I'm not somebody to suggest tripling your budget. I use the Modi/Vali with my HD 600/650s and they have good synergy. I've heard the Magni also but it wasn't as musical as the Vali. I would get those now and get a Bottlehead Crack later for your upgradeitis.

 

[ButtUglyJeff]

   
Though I think that DAC's would be less of a concern in terms of audible improvement: there's only so much of 32 bit 192khz conversion which can be done, and so much output circuitry one can do.
 
I have read from from a review that the bifrost with uber was more resolving than the ODAC, with the 650s, but wasn't the improvement they'd expect for the difference in price.
 
Some even have said that in terms of neutrality, there's no benefit in upgrading to the benchmark DAC1 from the ODAC.
 
I would totally spend the money to see if these claims are rightfully so, but alas I have no funds. With the general consensus that the DAC reaches diminishing returns much earlier, this becomes the reason why I am very much interested in the Crack as the next pairing to my HD650's.

 
Keep in mind, you are talking about the DAC part of the chain.  Most think it has less importance, then let say the amp.  Many here will suggest, to budget minded folks, to spend your funds on the best amp possible, then look for a DAC upgrade later.  I'm one of those believers...
 
I tend to rate importance:
 
Source -> Headphones -> Amp -> DAC -> cables/interconnects
 
I know audio is more complicated then this chain (which I'm sure others would argue), but it helps me temper my expectations when I get an itch to upgrade.

 

[Androb]

Keep in mind, you are talking about the DAC part of the chain.  Most think it has less importance, then let say the amp.  Many here will suggest, to budget minded folks, to spend your funds on the best amp possible, then look for a DAC upgrade later.  I'm one of those believers...

I tend to rate importance:

Source -> Headphones -> Amp -> DAC -> cables/interconnects

I know audio is more complicated then this chain (which I'm sure others would argue), but it helps me temper my expectations when I get an itch to upgrade.

A good dac do increase the sound alot tho.

 

[Tom1510]

I am a long time user of Sennheiser HD series headphones. I was happy with the HD 650 attached to a RME Babyface dac. Last weekend I built the Bottlehead Crack amp with Speedball upgrade. The first time I listened to it, I was blown away. The sound is incredibly lucious, spatious and detailed. This combination is by far the best I have ever heard.
 
 

 
http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,5898.0.html

 

[MattTCG]

Looks great Tom!! Once you've heard the crack and hd6x0...it's hard to go back to anything else. 

 

[JamieMcC]

Matt has your Crack arrived yet?

 

[wolfetan44]

Damn, I really need to hear a Bottlehead Crack!!!!!

 

[MattTCG]

  Matt has your Crack arrived yet?

 
On truck for delivery. f5 is no longer is play. 

 

[joespride]

  I am a long time user of Sennheiser HD series headphones. I was happy with the HD 650 attached to a RME Babyface dac. Last weekend I built the Bottlehead Crack amp with Speedball upgrade. The first time I listened to it, I was blown away. The sound is incredibly lucious, spatious and detailed. This combination is by far the best I have ever heard.
 
 

 
http://bottlehead.com/smf/index.php/topic,5898.0.html

Tom,  Have you built amps or other electronics B-4 ??,  Also can you elaborate on what other amps you have tried with the Hd-650.  I have a couple tube amps and truthfully they are both excellent amps IMHO, (the Schiit Valhalla, and the Ampsandsound SE84).  I hear so much about the crack pairing with the 650 I am very tempted to buy a kit
 
What attributes in the music do you feel you gained with the crack ??
 
My current set up is laptop playing lossless WAV or AIFF files, to Uberfrost, to SE84, to HD-650
 
I see so much about veiled etc... and I honestly dont get that at all, (I did before hooking up an amp) I feel like a tad more bass might be warranted depending on music playing but otherwise pretty happy with the set-up

 

[bleudeciel16]

  Tom,  Have you built amps or other electronics B-4 ??,  Also can you elaborate on what other amps you have tried with the Hd-650.  I have a couple tube amps and truthfully they are both excellent amps IMHO, (the Schiit Valhalla, and the Ampsandsound SE84).  I hear so much about the crack pairing with the 650 I am very tempted to buy a kit
 
What attributes in the music do you feel you gained with the crack ??
 
My current set up is laptop playing lossless WAV or AIFF files, to Uberfrost, to SE84, to HD-650
 
I see so much about veiled etc... and I honestly dont get that at all, (I did before hooking up an amp) I feel like a tad more bass might be warranted depending on music playing but otherwise pretty happy with the set-up

 
I have a lyr for my 650's, and a crack that should arrive in a week or two.  I'll report back once it's in.  After reading everyone raving about the combo, I decided to give it a shot.

 

[joespride]

Yea Its a pretty overwhelming consensus that the crack is the perfect amp for the 650, And so its hard to ignore it for long.  I have never built any electronics Kit or otherwise, I bought a decent weller station a few years back and have played with soldering wires etc Re-soldered my wire harness on my sportster handlebars. I'm thinking If I take my time (which i currently have plenty of) I should be able to do the build
 
I look forward to your impressions
 
Joe

 

[Tom1510]

Joe,
 
Unfortunately, I don't have any experience with high-end tube or solid state amps.  I do have experience with Westone ES3x in-ear monitors, Sony MDR-SA5000 and Stax Lambda Pro headphones. My setup is a Macbook Air and a RME Babyface dac.
 
With the RME, the HD 650 sounded a little harsh, a lot of bass en less highs. With the Crack, the HD 650 opens up completely. The soundstage is wide and the resolution is very high. Everything is much more in balance. Long listening sessions don't give any fatique.
 
I.m.o. the HD 650 sounds veiled if there is not enough power to drive it. With the Crack and Speedball upgrade there is more than enough power and then it scales very very well.

 

[joespride]

thanks for the input, still plenty of positive feedback on the crack / 650