Sennheiser HD600 - Amp NOT a must!

[Braver]

you're not missing a lot at low levels. at some point just sortof shifts into focus, and that point is dependant on what you're used to (so you can actually lower that point with time). and yeah you could play it louder and pick out some extra details, but I don't see the fun in that really. not worth going deaf over anyway.

 

[Keiso]

"Is it a general consensus that a headphone needs a certain volumn before they can "show-off" their qualities?? What I mean by that is, is it necessary to have a high volumn to listen to the details?? "

That is the most ridiculous thing I've heard. As with speakers, good gears are the ones which give you great listening pressure with all their glory on NORMAL listening level.

By that, I mean you are not suppose to drive them up till it actually hurts your hearing for them to "show-off" their qualities!

If you've got something that needs to be turned up above what you describe as a comfortable listening level, you can get rid of that crap right away. (sorry for being so aggressive. I'm a medical student, so I can't help it when I sense people trying to do something hazardous)

BUT in your case, it sounds like you are actually listening to your Grados at a level BELOW what you feel comfortable at because of the noise they make outside. And in that case, Hell yeah, I don't doubt that you are missing out some of the small details on your music, but that's got nothing to do with your Grados needing volume to show-off!

 

[mkyy]

I do realize that amp is not primarily for driving up volumns.

However, I do notice my SR60's (amp-less) bass is subdued at low volumn. I'll wait to see if that'll change when my Rega Ear comes into play.

Having read about scary stories about tinnitus, I am more aware of the volumn I'm listening at. I don't want to quit using HP yet as I'm enjoying my Grado.

 

[Keiso]

"I experienced this with most of my expensive heapdhones I own - I can drive them with a pcdp to loud volumes, but they sound a little harsh and dry. With a dedicated headphone amp, the extra voltage or current that a heapdhone amp can supply really enhances the fidelity of headphones."


Of course it's no good to drive a pair of HD 600 on a PCDP! I only mentioned it in the beginning to make a point that they CAN be driven loudly with a PCDP, I didn't said it sounded good

(in fact, it sounds HORRIBLE!)

 

[Audio-Me]

No dedicated headphone amp for HD600 = thin, lifeless sound (non "musical"). Why do you think that is? Think food. You turn something ordinary, apple, eat it and turn it into energy that you can use to exercise to make your body more attractive. Apply that same concept to power/amplification. Without an amp, it can still sound very good, so you've got the flavor, but you're really missing the fruit (concentrate vs fresh).

Also, a good amp should eliminate the need to blast the volume just to get good dynamics.

It's not about necessity, it's about priority (you happy without amp, or do you want to shell out for better?).

Even easy to drive headphones benifit a lot from good amplification.

 

[Keiso]

Well put, I guess.

While I feel the HD600s perform pretty awesome straight from my SACD player already, I can't help but feel that during some parts on some tracks, the music seem to be a bit lifeless.

Still, what I really wanted to tell people, was that they don't need to be scared away from the HD600 if they don't want to invest on a dedicated amp. They might sound very good already with your current gear. And afterwards, once they realise the HD600 have not reached its full potential, I'm sure they'll save up for an amp.

At least, that way, they won't waste money on some lower end stuff when they will actually end up on the HD600 anyway.

But I should also state that the headphone output on my SACD player is pretty bad @ss. I compared it to a higher end Sony DVD player and the top QS model of Sony's CD players, they were all inferior to the one on my SACD player (which actually won the EISA award for 2000-2001, even though it doesn't really mean ****).

 

[Spad]

Quote:

Originally posted by Gluegun Well, a headphone amp isn't just for having volume. It's for having a clearer signal, and for having the headroom to drive a headphone well at all frequencies at any given volume level, to give a more full and detailed sound, to make the sound more 'natural' and less strained, and more effortless, to make the bass easier for the headphone to reproduce, etc. etc.

Right on, Gluegun. This is so often misunderstood, even with reasonably experienced enthusiasts. They don't 'get' why you run 300 watts per side even though you don't play your system any louder than they do their 50 watt rig.

 

[Nick Dangerous]

If people are considering buying the HD600 but not an amp due to financial reasons.... then why not get the HD580?

 

[Snufkin]

I'm thinking of buying a new car.. I live in a suburban area where the limit is around 50kph and I like the looks of the Ferrari 360 Modena.
Now the roads around here aren't that good, and there's no open countryside, so I'll be limited to suburban streets. Also, I can't afford good tyres, so I'll just get some cheapies from my local tyre-mart. Oh, and I can't afford good fuel, so just standard stuff from my locall independant petrol station will have to do.

Now I've never owned a good car before, I'm currently used to an old 1978 Honda Accord, but I was told Ferrari make great cars so I should notice a huge difference.
I have all the things I need - roads, a drivers licence and a garage, so I'm not missing anything.

Does anyone have suggestions?

Analogies aside - there's nothing wrong with driving your Ferrari (HD600) around standard roads (low quality sound sources) but there are much cheaper solutions that can suit peoples needs and give them as good if not better experiences/enjoyment.

There's no point in forking out heaps of money for one component that is just part of an overall experience. While the HD600 is a great headphone, your limiting factor is your lowest quality component so adding the HD600 to the live (or other low quality part) just demonstrates how bad the Live! is, not how good the HD600 is.

Bottom line - don't buy the HD600 and expect 'the best' unless the rest of the chain leading up to the HD600 is of a quality to match.

It's probably safe to say that a low-mid range pair of headphones with an entry level amp will sound better than the HD600 straight from a soundcard and will cost less/the same.

I wonder how many times we're going to get this topic

There is no snakeoil headphone - no cure all, hear all, best of all, cheap and amazing one solution suits all

 

[Eagle_Driver]

Quote:

Originally posted by Keiso Of course it's no good to drive a pair of HD 600 on a PCDP! I only mentioned it in the beginning to make a point that they CAN be driven loudly with a PCDP, I didn't said it sounded good (in fact, it sounds HORRIBLE!)

You got it almost on the nose, Keiso!

"Class-A" headphones such as the Sennheiser HD 600's REALLY show the true suckiness of most lower-priced consumer electronics. The HD 590, due to its lower-impedance, masks some of the crappiness of cheaper equipment.

Which goes to tell you that a dedicated headphone amp - even a cheap portable one such as Headroom's Total Airhead - is STRONGLY recommended for best performance, especially on low-priced audio gear.

 

[roll-man]

oh goodness! not again...

 

[pedxing]

If your discrete component has a good headphone jack, you may not need a headphone amplifier. If you like it, good enough. If you want it to sound better, buying a headphone amp might be an option.

With a good amplifier and a good headphone, one can hear a lot of details at low volumes. Usually these details are lost at low volumes with lesser quality amplifiers and headphones.
The title of this thread is kinda misleading. The SACD player with a headphone jack obviously has an amplifier in it (any piece of electronics that does anything useful usually has an amplifier of one form or another. From what I can remember from my electronics class, most transistors are a form of an amplifier too).

 

[Joe Bloggs]

Me, I would be patient and just put my dream rig together one component at a time even if I can't get great sound until the final piece comes in.

Hell, back when all I had was the EX70 and the Aiwa HP-X225 I even considered buying *just* an amp with my $275 budget and getting good phones later...

But the HD580 + PC deal was just too good to resist

I fall short of my ideals

Well, the point is that I would definitely not be one to choose 590 over 600 because I don't have an amp yet, even if they sound no better than my X225 without an amp... considering that once you *do* have an amp you need something better than the 590, buying the 590 would just not be cost-effective...

 

[Joe Bloggs]

oops

 

[Driftwood]

I have to agree with Joe here.

I completely know and understand that without an amp, the HD-600 sounds fantastic. However, I do also think that with a dedicated amp, the HD-600 sound is much improved. Furthermore, the fact that the HD-600 sounds good without an amp but can get better performance with an amp indicates that since you are not getting the full potential out of the HD-600, chances are that you can get a cheaper headphone that will sound as good as the HD-600 unamped (because the limiting factor is the headphone amp, and not the headphone). This is why a lot of people who don't have an amp get the HP-890 or whatever (ask violetta88).

But, I have to agree that I think that while it might not be the most cost effective solution to get a HD-600 when you don't have an amp, you certainly are not hurting yourself to get one, it still will sound great. If and when you do get an amp, you get an instant performance increase, and now you have some GREAT sounding headphones already, and you don't have to worry about that upgrade.

If you think you might get an amp in the future, I say go ahead and get yourself the HD-600. If you absolutely refuse to get an amp, get the HD-600 anyway, because after a short while, you will be rethinking your decision, and you will want an amp. Trust me.

Save yourself the cost of the headphone upgrade later, and just go get the HD-600! You won't regret it!

Driftwood