[malla1ml]

   
I meant it did not help me to understand anything I didn't already know. The only info I found relevant to the discussion basically just said that if it cannot handle dynamic peaks, a less powerful amp may not sound as good. ...But most people here already know that.

What you are missing is that implementation has everything to do with an amp.  How the board is laid out, the capacity of the power supply, the quality of the capacitors, how quickly can the capacitors regain the power they just shed for the huge bass hit,  shielding from unwanted electrical noise, cross-talk, etc. Not to mention the ability of an amp to have a completely black background at full power and no sound coming out.  Engineering is very scientific, but it's also an art form.  Just like anything in the world, there are diminishing returns as you move up chain, if you can't hear the difference between a $90 amp and a $1,000 one, consider yourself lucky.  Is there a difference, I would sure hope so, and if you buy a from a well known manufacture, Woo Audio, McIntosh, or from a well designed DIY unit, you should be able to hear the difference.  If you don't, there is likely something else in your chain that is the problem.  
 
Also, you claim that "most people here already know that", "a less powerful amp may not sound as good".  The fulla is not powerful enough to drive the HD700 to it's full potential, which has been said...

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I'm not sure what you're trying to get out of this discussion. You've been on head-fi for 16 months with an average of 429 posts per month, 14.3 posts per day. If you STILL haven't found the answer to your questions by now, I highly doubt an impressions thread of HD700 is going to help you out on your mythical quest. There are much more appropriate threads and forum sections for you to ask these questions in.
 
People have suggested you try other DACs and amps, but you refuse to do so. Instead, you just want to sell the HD700 and get an EL-8, even though you claim HD700 is one of the best headphones you've heard, yet it has major flaws that you hate. You don't make any sense and it hurts my brain just to read your posts.

 
Fair enough. (But if you have the answers I seek, I'm interested in hearing them.)
 
Refuse to do so? Yes, I refuse to spend money I don't have on an expensive amp. To imply that my impressions are invalid due to not using said expensive amp is absurd and insulting to my intelligence. The HD 700 is not hard at all to drive.
 
There are plenty of great headphones out there with flaws that ruin the experience. I already stated that I cannot justify keeping it when I do not enjoy it enough with all my music.
 
I make perfect sense. I don't like the headphone enough and am moving on to something else...like countless other Head-Fi'ers who make perfect sense.

 

[Click]

   
Fair enough. (But if you have the answers I seek, I'm interested in hearing them.)
 
Refuse to do so? Yes, I refuse to spend money I don't have on an expensive amp. To imply that my impressions are invalid due to not using said expensive amp is absurd and insulting to my intelligence. The HD 700 is not hard at all to drive.
 
There are plenty of great headphones out there with flaws that ruin the experience. I already stated that I cannot justify keeping it when I do not enjoy it enough with all my music.
 
I make perfect sense. I don't like the headphone enough and am moving on to something else...like countless other Head-Fi'ers who make perfect sense.

I was powering my HD700 with a FiiO E10 for about 3 weeks. It had more than enough power to drive the HD700, but I wasn't satisfied with the sound. I knew it could sound way better. You want to know how I knew? Because I actually read and LISTENED to owners of the HD700 who have posted many times that this headphone requires a good DAC and tube amp to bring out its true potential.
 
If you can't understand by now that headphones will sound different on different DACs and amps, then your 16 months spent here on head-fi and 6.8k+ posts was a waste of time. It's not just about how hard a particular headphone is to drive. It's about how well it pairs with specific DACs and amps. Even newbies to the headphone hobby knows this.
 
Anyway, this will be my last response to you. You're obviously a stubborn individual who refuses to take people's advice. I hope you have better luck with your EL-8, but I doubt it.

 

[dazzerfong]

   
Fair enough. (But if you have the answers I seek, I'm interested in hearing them.)
 
Refuse to do so? Yes, I refuse to spend money I don't have on an expensive amp. To imply that my impressions are invalid due to not using said expensive amp is absurd and insulting to my intelligence. The HD 700 is not hard at all to drive.
 
There are plenty of great headphones out there with flaws that ruin the experience. I already stated that I cannot justify keeping it when I do not enjoy it enough with all my music.
 
I make perfect sense. I don't like the headphone enough and am moving on to something else...like countless other Head-Fi'ers who make perfect sense.

 
Then don't: no-one's going to give you any beef because of that.
 
Some people reckon that if you have a headphone with some flaws, you can fix up those flaws with an amp. While that's true to an extent, I reckon it's better if you just go with another headphone. Now, if you have to absolutely settle for a headphone with flaws, might as well give amping a bit of try. You never know what you'll get.
 
 

  I was powering my HD700 with a FiiO E10 for about 3 weeks. It had more than enough power to drive the HD700, but I wasn't satisfied with the sound. I knew it could sound way better. You want to know how I knew? Because I actually read and LISTENED to owners of the HD700 who have posted many times that this headphone requires a good DAC and tube amp to bring out its true potential.
 
If you can't understand by now that headphones will sound different on different DACs and amps, then your 16 months spent here on head-fi and 6.8k+ posts was a waste of time. It's not just about how hard a particular headphone is to drive. It's about how well it pairs with specific DACs and amps. Even newbies to the headphone hobby knows this.
 
Anyway, this will be my last response to you. You're obviously a stubborn individual who refuses to take people's advice. I hope you have better luck with your EL-8, but I doubt it.

 
I think people mixing up the terms 'powerful enough' and 'good enough' is causing all this mayhem. Mostly everything is powerful enough to drive the HD700's: whether it's good enough for it or not is another story.
 
That being said, to each their own: if he doesn't want to take your advice, who cares?

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I was powering my HD700 with a FiiO E10 for about 3 weeks. It had more than enough power to drive the HD700, but I wasn't satisfied with the sound. I knew it could sound way better. You want to know how I knew? Because I actually read and LISTENED to owners of the HD700 who have posted many times that this headphone requires a good DAC and tube amp to bring out its true potential.
 
If you can't understand by now that headphones will sound different on different DACs and amps, then your 16 months spent here on head-fi and 6.8k+ posts was a waste of time. It's not just about how hard a particular headphone is to drive. It's about how well it pairs with specific DACs and amps. Even newbies to the headphone hobby knows this.
 
Anyway, this will be my last response to you. You're obviously a stubborn individual who refuses to take people's advice. I hope you have better luck with your EL-8, but I doubt it.

 
In other words, you didn't like the HD 700 much either and instead of acknowledging its weaknesses like I did, you resorted to the fabled solution that has finally been revealed: attempt to color the sound. Nice.
 
According to established science, any properly designed DAC will sound the same as any other properly designed DAC, "better" specs of more expensive DACs don't matter since they are beyond the threshold of audibility, and any DAC that sounds different is just coloring the sound instead of reproducing it accurately. This has been covered extensively in the Sound Science section, which I suggest you visit and learn from.
 
The proper job of an amp is to amplify the signal without coloration.
 
(Oh, and by the way, the Schiit Vali has a neutral frequency response and very low THD. Wonder how it colors the sound...especially when at least a few Schiit owners I know cannot distinguish between it and Schiit's solid-state amps in proper comparisons.)
 
I can use a free parametric equalizer if I want to tweak the sound. (Or, more importantly, equalize my headphones to get a balanced frequency response.)
 
Unlike newbies, I don't blindly believe in disproved audiophile myths, sorry. And I have the experience to know better.
 

  Then don't: no-one's going to give you any beef because of that.
 
Some people reckon that if you have a headphone with some flaws, you can fix up those flaws with an amp. While that's true to an extent, I reckon it's better if you just go with another headphone. Now, if you have to absolutely settle for a headphone with flaws, might as well give amping a bit of try. You never know what you'll get.

 
I appreciate your calm responses.

 

[elwappo99]

/r/headphone is leaking again... someone needs to plug it.

 

[dazzerfong]

   
In other words, you didn't like the HD 700 much either and instead of acknowledging its weaknesses like I did, you resorted to the fabled solution that has finally been revealed: attempt to color the sound. Nice.
 
According to established science, any properly designed DAC will sound the same as any other properly designed DAC, "better" specs of more expensive DACs don't matter since they are beyond the threshold of audibility, and any DAC that sounds different is just coloring the sound instead of reproducing it accurately. This has been covered extensively in the Sound Science section, which I suggest you visit and learn from.
 
The proper job of an amp is to amplify the signal without coloration.
 
(Oh, and by the way, the Schiit Vali has a neutral frequency response and very low THD. Wonder how it colors the sound...especially when at least a few Schiit owners I know cannot distinguish between it and Schiit's solid-state amps in proper comparisons.)
 
I can use a free parametric equalizer if I want to tweak the sound. (Or, more importantly, equalize my headphones to get a balanced frequency response.)
 
Unlike newbies, I don't blindly believe in disproved audiophile myths, sorry. And I have the experience to know better.

Here's the thing: whether you believe it or not is up to you (this isn't life-threatening like vaccines). However, spouting those myths is a different matter.
 
I think everyone needs to take a (big) step back and just acknowledge this: no-one knows all the answers. While it's fun to know why it's different (and correspondingly aggravating when you don't), no-one really knows why it sounds different. Chaos theory comes into play here: change a little thing, and everything changes. That being said, yes, an amp is supposed to, well, amp from small to large.
 
What's more is that it has a secondary purpose: affect the sound response a bit. Some amps (like the O2) is more or less just a +9000 volume knob. Others, like tube amps, like to kick in a bit off harmonics. If you believe that an amp's purpose should be to only increase volume, just buy an O2 and settle for it. If you want more, there are a lot more things out there to do just that. That leads to the issue with pricing: what you reckon is worth a few thousand could be worthless to me. Who's the judge in the end? You.
 
Remember, we can give you technical explanation all day long. I'd love to, being an engineering student, recall Nyquist theorem, op-amp limitations, slew rate, (insert technical thingy here), all day long. While it's not pointless, keeping an open mind to things that are unknown is the most important thing in this hobby. That, and having a decent income.

 

[DavidA]

  Here's the thing: whether you believe it or not is up to you (this isn't life-threatening like vaccines). However, spouting those myths is a different matter.
 
I think everyone needs to take a (big) step back and just acknowledge this: no-one knows all the answers. While it's fun to know why it's different (and correspondingly aggravating when you don't), no-one really knows why it sounds different. Chaos theory comes into play here: change a little thing, and everything changes. That being said, yes, an amp is supposed to, well, amp from small to large.
 
What's more is that it has a secondary purpose: affect the sound response a bit. Some amps (like the O2) is more or less just a +9000 volume knob. Others, like tube amps, like to kick in a bit off harmonics. If you believe that an amp's purpose should be to only increase volume, just buy an O2 and settle for it. If you want more, there are a lot more things out there to do just that. That leads to the issue with pricing: what you reckon is worth a few thousand could be worthless to me. Who's the judge in the end? You.
 
Remember, we can give you technical explanation all day long. I'd love to, being an engineering student, recall Nyquist theorem, op-amp limitations, slew rate, (insert technical thingy here), all day long. While it's not pointless, keeping an open mind to things that are unknown is the most important thing in this hobby. That, and having a decent income.

well said

 

[Focker]

  What you are missing is that implementation has everything to do with an amp.  How the board is laid out, the capacity of the power supply, the quality of the capacitors, how quickly can the capacitors regain the power they just shed for the huge bass hit,  shielding from unwanted electrical noise, cross-talk, etc. Not to mention the ability of an amp to have a completely black background at full power and no sound coming out.  Engineering is very scientific, but it's also an art form.  Just like anything in the world, there are diminishing returns as you move up chain, if you can't hear the difference between a $90 amp and a $1,000 one, consider yourself lucky.  Is there a difference, I would sure hope so, and if you buy a from a well known manufacture, Woo Audio, McIntosh, or from a well designed DIY unit, you should be able to hear the difference.  If you don't, there is likely something else in your chain that is the problem.  
 
Also, you claim that "most people here already know that", "a less powerful amp may not sound as good".  The fulla is not powerful enough to drive the HD700 to it's full potential, which has been said...

 
This is where you really start opening a can of worms, though, because there is an entire legion of objectivists and engineers who will tell you they've run test after test and never has anyone been able to consistently discern one amp over another. It's not nearly as clear cut as you would make it seem. 

 

[malla1ml]

   
This is where you really start opening a can of worms, though, because there is an entire legion of objectivists and engineers who will tell you they've run test after test and never has anyone been able to consistently discern one amp over another. It's not nearly as clear cut as you would make it seem. 

I think that is entirely fair but IMO, taking the time to objectively listen to various offerings is the only way to know if one's ears can tell the difference. On the flip side of that, you've got legion's of people who experience a difference when switching.  Also, the argument wasn't entirely fair because the Fulla is an amp & dac which add's another variable. At the end of the day, asking for an opinion and having a healthy dose of skepticism is better for everyone. Everyone benefits. However, having confirmation bias by only listening/find posts that matches one's opinion without objectively listening to both sides of the argument and researching one's self, is detrimental as a whole. There are many things in science that isn't easily explained or even expected, does that mean if one is unable to fully explain their experience, it is somehow invalid? If someone has a counter argument/experience, share it but also be willing to listen to others. 

 

[Focker]

  I think that is entirely fair but IMO, taking the time to objectively listen to various offerings is the only way to know if one's ears can tell the difference. On the flip side of that, you've got legion's of people who experience a difference when switching.  Also, the argument wasn't entirely fair because the Fulla is an amp & dac which add's another variable. At the end of the day, asking for an opinion and having a healthy dose of skepticism is better for everyone. Everyone benefits. However, having confirmation bias by only listening/find posts that matches one's opinion without objectively listening to both sides of the argument and researching one's self, is detrimental as a whole. There are many things in science that isn't easily explained or even expected, does that mean if one is unable to fully explain their experience, it is somehow invalid? If someone has a counter argument/experience, share it but also be willing to listen to others. 

 
That's why I don't really take a hard stance either way..all I can do is be honest with myself with regard to what I'm hearing and not hearing. And to your point, I agree you have to always have to be mindful of the psychological factors at play...and in audio, they are myriad! lol  Many people have a strong need/desire to justify their purchases, opinions, etc. I have a background in psychology, and if I were still in school I can't think of a better population than the head-fi community to design a study around. I've never seen such a profound example of the construct of "group think" ever in my life, and it's fascinating to observe.

 

[Eee Pee]

  (Oh, and by the way, the Schiit Vali has a neutral frequency response and very low THD. Wonder how it colors the sound...especially when at least a few Schiit owners I know cannot distinguish between it and Schiit's solid-state amps in proper comparisons.)

 
 
What is this?  I have a Vali and Mjolnir and to any, and everyone I know that's heard the two in the same room will agree, they can clearly hear the difference.

 

[Click]

   
 
What is this?  I have a Vali and Mjolnir and to any, and everyone I know that's heard the two in the same room will agree, they can clearly hear the difference.

Could you actually describe the difference between the 2 amps on HD700? I'm genuinely curious. 
 
I'm perfectly happy with my Vali and won't be shelling out $700+ for a Mjolnir any time soon (and no desk space for it), but it'd be interesting to know how big of a difference that amp would make. 

 

[Eee Pee]

Yep.  
 
Power and drive.    
 
Or, nice and pleasant.
 
700 and Vali is great.  I keep it simple because to me that's how it is.

 

[pietcux]

   
Fair enough. (But if you have the answers I seek, I'm interested in hearing them.)
 
Refuse to do so? Yes, I refuse to spend money I don't have on an expensive amp. To imply that my impressions are invalid due to not using said expensive amp is absurd and insulting to my intelligence. The HD 700 is not hard at all to drive.
 
There are plenty of great headphones out there with flaws that ruin the experience. I already stated that I cannot justify keeping it when I do not enjoy it enough with all my music.
 
I make perfect sense. I don't like the headphone enough and am moving on to something else...like countless other Head-Fi'ers who make perfect sense.

I don''t know where  Hinamizawa (in the forbidden forest where cicadas cry) is in reality, but if it is somewhere in the US, get your stuff together and attend one of the many meets that are upcoming in the US every week, I think. Your questions cannot be answered by words in this forum, you need a reality check. And as your funds are limited, a meet would be a great opportunity to get more experience.