May I ask whether you guys would consider yourselves to listen to music loud or softly? Maybe that makes a difference in whether you are bothered by the treble.
When talking how loud its better if you can put a number to it even if its not very accurate like using a app on a smart phone. My usual listening level is 65-75dB which most would consider on the lower side and for me 85dB is getting to a point of being painful and it makes sense since this is where OSHA and other safety orgs note as a borderline harmful / dangerous level.
I can listen at 85dB with HD700 and there is still no treble peak that bothers me but like the others mention its with a tube amp (BH Crack or Ember most times)
May I ask whether you guys would consider yourselves to listen to music loud or softly? Maybe that makes a difference in whether you are bothered by the treble.
I listen pretty loud. It may depend on what material I am listening to (although almost everything I listen to can be roughly characterized as rock or folk, within those very broad generalizations, the range of my interest is very wide, though it emphatically excludes electronic, hip hop and modern non-rock pop), I generally listen with the volume on the Valhalla 2 around 10 to 11 o'clock on high gain. I think most people would find that fairly loud, though certainly not ear splitting at least for me. TBH, I am not as educated a listener as many here. While I am reasonably good at evaluating bass (at least as that translates to picking out the bass guitar lines) I confess my ignorance in not quite knowing what to listen for to recognize a treble spike. However, my impression is that such a spike makes a headphone fatiguing and difficult to listen to for long periods of time. I usually listen to the 700 many hours each day for music and movies without problem. Like most others here who have no problem with the treble on the 700, I am listening on tubes.
@Marlowe if you have a smart phone download a dB meter app and use it to get a ball park figure on how "loud" you listen at, you might be surprised at what the readings say.
This is what I use:
I use the closed cell foam sheet to prevent ambient noise from affecting the readings. The app has settings so it can be calibrated and its decent / good compared to a dedicated SPL meter that a friend has for is work that is regularly calibrated.
@Marlowe if you have a smart phone download a dB meter app and use it to get a ball park figure on how "loud" you listen at, you might be surprised at what the readings say.
This is what I use:
I use the closed cell foam sheet to prevent ambient noise from affecting the readings. The app has settings so it can be calibrated and its decent / good compared to a dedicated SPL meter that a friend has for is work that is regularly calibrated.
Those two...with the HD700 + Schiit Loki on my system was nearly brought to tears, so beautiful!
Back and forth between the HD700 and TH-X00PH on them and its clear the HD700 has the better detail and finesse, but the mids sound so much more powerful and richer on the PH with absolutely mesmerizing stand-up bass. Both present everything with equally clarity, and the PH is just a tad, ever so slightly brighter in the highs.
Two of my favorites:
The O-Zone percussion group, 'La Bamba' album - detail and dynamics galore with extremely satisfying bass and highs
Example track: "A Time For Jazz"
AdyS, 'So What' album - one of my favorite vocaloid albums, has great low end, nice vocal tune, and good highs, sounds good on HD700, but absolutely stellar on the TH-X00PH's.
@VRacer-111, love the O Zone track and I'm glad you mentioned that the videos sound dull compared to the album because at first listen I was a little disappointed.
I love finding songs that sound so different on various headphones and since you mentioned your PH I decided to try the songs I had posted and found that on my TH-600 they don't really sound that great since the mids are too recessed but sound really good on my EL-8 open and my modded RS2e which both have great midranges.
@Marlowe if you have a smart phone download a dB meter app and use it to get a ball park figure on how "loud" you listen at, you might be surprised at what the readings say.
This is what I use:
I use the closed cell foam sheet to prevent ambient noise from affecting the readings. The app has settings so it can be calibrated and its decent / good compared to a dedicated SPL meter that a friend has for is work that is regularly calibrated.
I did this and was surprised to find the Rolling Stones at what I considered a pretty loud volume only hovered around 60 dB, which the app described as conversational level. It certainly doesn't sound conversational to me. Even turning the Vahalla 2 to max on high gain, which is skull splitting, only gets readings around 75-80. A few caveats. I just put the phone mic next to the interior of one of the earcups; I have no idea if this is the proper way to get a measurement. Also, as you mention, the app allows for calibration. But it gives no information regarding proper calibration and I am clueless on the subject, so I merely used it at default settings.
I did this and was surprised to find the Rolling Stones at what I considered a pretty loud volume only hovered around 60 dB, which the app described as conversational level. It certainly doesn't sound conversational to me. Even turning the Vahalla 2 to max on high gain, which is skull splitting, only gets readings around 75-80. A few caveats. I just put the phone mic next to the interior of one of the earcups; I have no idea if this is the proper way to get a measurement. Also, as you mention, the app allows for calibration. But it gives no information regarding proper calibration and I am clueless on the subject, so I merely used it at default settings.
If you don't have access to a calibrated meter then you will have to use your best judgement. Use the app when having a conversation and see if the reading match the description of the current task of having a conversation or go to the quietest room and see if the readings correspond to that environment. Based on what you are describing it looks like your readings are about 20dB too low.
If i set my phone on the table and talk with my GF the readings are around 50-60dB with an average of 55dB which corresponds to either a quite library or conversation which is in the ball park.
@Marlowe if you have a smart phone download a dB meter app and use it to get a ball park figure on how "loud" you listen at, you might be surprised at what the readings say.
This is what I use:
I use the closed cell foam sheet to prevent ambient noise from affecting the readings. The app has settings so it can be calibrated and its decent / good compared to a dedicated SPL meter that a friend has for is work that is regularly calibrated.
Mine averaged at 43 dB for a track that was full blast... No calibration but I'm really sensitive to loud voices. If I plug my HD 595's directly to my Sound Blaster Zx line out, I can't go higher than 2%-3% volume.
@Marlowe if you have a smart phone download a dB meter app and use it to get a ball park figure on how "loud" you listen at, you might be surprised at what the readings say.
This is what I use:
I use the closed cell foam sheet to prevent ambient noise from affecting the readings. The app has settings so it can be calibrated and its decent / good compared to a dedicated SPL meter that a friend has for is work that is regularly calibrated.
I did this and was surprised to find the Rolling Stones at what I considered a pretty loud volume only hovered around 60 dB, which the app described as conversational level. It certainly doesn't sound conversational to me. Even turning the Vahalla 2 to max on high gain, which is skull splitting, only gets readings around 75-80. A few caveats. I just put the phone mic next to the interior of one of the earcups; I have no idea if this is the proper way to get a measurement. Also, as you mention, the app allows for calibration. But it gives no information regarding proper calibration and I am clueless on the subject, so I merely used it at default settings.
The problem with that app and using a phone vs. a SPL meter is the app is calibrated for the cell phones microphone which is limited to the vocal decibel bandwidth.
The problem with that app and using a phone vs. a SPL meter is the app is calibrated for the cell phones microphone which is limited to the vocal decibel bandwidth.
Can you explain this better? I'm not sure what you mean by "limited to the vocal decibel bandwidth" since when my friend was over with his SPL meter that he uses for work on a daily basis the reading from his meter and the readings from my phone+app were quite similar once I used the settings of the app to calibrate it so the readings were pretty much the same as the dedicated meter. I've found that even if the HD650 is an open headphone it does not let in as much external sound as other headphones like the HD700/800 and what was surprising was that the TH-600/X00/900 let in a lot of external noise even if they are considered semi-closed.
Can you explain this better? I'm not sure what you mean by "limited to the vocal decibel bandwidth" since when my friend was over with his SPL meter that he uses for work on a daily basis the reading from his meter and the readings from my phone+app were quite similar once I used the settings of the app to calibrate it so the readings were pretty much the same as the dedicated meter. I've found that even if the HD650 is an open headphone it does not let in as much external sound as other headphones like the HD700/800 and what was surprising was that the TH-600/X00/900 let in a lot of external noise even if they are considered semi-closed.
A phone's microphone doesn't have the ability to capture the level of dynamics that a SPL meter does because a SPL meter is calibrated above and beyond the limits of a phone. A phone is basically only calibrated to use the baud rate of normal voice range which is pretty narrow (I forget the range, I'd need to go back over my networking textbooks) - something like 300-3400hz. Thus, at high dynamics and sub-frequencies the phone mic is not really picking that up which contributes to the overall volume of whatevers playing. For a rough estimate, phone apps are useful in shop floor settings as the sound is usually monotonous and such.
Asking a question to the HD700 community. If you own an amp or amp/dac that allows you to turn down the amp and volume separately can you turn down just the amp slowly and see if you notice the treble spiking. Normally I have my amp @ 100% and it was @ 50%. The treble was killing my ears. I put it back to 100% and the treble spike went away. I ask this question because it might explain why some people hear a treble spike (under amped.)
A phone's microphone doesn't have the ability to capture the level of dynamics that a SPL meter does because a SPL meter is calibrated above and beyond the limits of a phone. A phone is basically only calibrated to use the baud rate of normal voice range which is pretty narrow (I forget the range, I'd need to go back over my networking textbooks) - something like 300-3400hz. Thus, at high dynamics and sub-frequencies the phone mic is not really picking that up which contributes to the overall volume of whatevers playing. For a rough estimate, phone apps are useful in shop floor settings as the sound is usually monotonous and such.
Thanks for the info, did some testing with test tones and the mic on my phones is seems to register down to 30hz but starts to roll off at 3.5hkz so I can see that for a track that has a lot of energy in the higher frequencies the readings would be slightly off (4dB lower at 3.5khz and getting worst going higher, at 6khz the readings are about 10dB too low) so depending on the tracks used to evaluate the listening level it may or will have dB readings lower than what its actually at. I tried a 1khz test tone on the HD700 and set the volume to register 65dB on the phone with the test tone and then played a few tracks and FWIW the readings with music are fairly close (1-2dB variance) so for just getting an idea of the listening level it looks like my phone+app is good enough for my purposes. I also use a 1kh test tone to set levels when doing A/B comparisons so for this use my phone+app gives a +/- 0.5dB tolerance which for my purpose is sufficiently close enough.
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