[rafaelo]

I've had both at the time and as the S2 is to the 660S, the 660S is to the HD58X

You are not helping Rob...

I need another refurbished priced 660s2 please...

 

[rafaelo]

While we are on the topic of drivers, the one that always had me wondering is the HD58x. Of course speculation ran wild that it was the same driver as the 660s due to their tonal similarities, and then theories shifted towards it being a 500 series driver in a 6 series chassis. Would you be able to comment on the 58x implementation at all? Would be really cool to learn about I think.

+1 please. I am really curious to know...

Although I can say that the size of the headphone of the 58x always seemed smaller than the size of the headphone of the 6XX. I thought that the size of the actual driver of 58x is smaller. But now that I have a 660s the size from outside seems the same with 58x and the size of 6XX bigger ...or the black colour plays tricks with me...LOL

 

[headstef]

The fast answer is: the driver in the HD 660S and the HD 700 is the same.

The long answer: The older KDH 580 developed for the HD 580 and still found in the HD 600 and HD 650 is to this day mainly hand assembled, which is not ideal for some precision processes, even though it's extraordinarily consistent for what it is. It was optimized for minimal partial vibrations, which resulted in the extremely smooth and clear response which is for me still practically the optimum.
The SYS38 platform was created in the early 2000s to take some of the properties of the KDH 580 into a more affordable space. It shares the same basic geometry in terms of diaphragm and coil diameter, but is fully automated, comparatively slim so that it can be implemented in a variety of headphones and is highly variable in performance depending on the coil or diaphragm used. Since then it has been used in many 500 series headphones, in some PRO headphones like HD 280 PRO, and in our highest performance Bluetooth models like the Momentum 3 and recently Momentum 4. The highest performance version of it sits in the HD 560S, with the new polymer blend diaphragm and a very light aluminium voice coil. This transducer is also implemented without changes in the NDH 30. However, Neumann is incredibly strict on tolerances for this model in a way that it's on the edge of what's possible in headphone series production, which may contribute to positive characteristics like soundstage.


Coming back to your question, the SYS40 platform was originally devised as a peak-performance automated assembly driver to finally surpass the old KDH 580. While our transducers are generally devised to sound good "out of the box" and in many different acoustic systems, the SYS40 has originally been developed for the HD 650 enclosure. This is because we know that it is fairly optimal in aiding a natural listening experience. The advantages compared to our previous platforms are a stronger magnet, a vented magnetic yoke which reduces air turbulence during incursion into the magnet, a very consistent damping concept and lastly an undampened magnet hole. The magnet hole in the KDH 580 is heavily dampened and is drawn out (internally we call it Rüssel, ie. an elephants trunk), so it acts like a bass tube and slightly lifts up the amplitude in exchange for less "punch". So the new transducer would take over the brilliance of the KDH 580, but improve on bass impact and have overall less distortion. When the SYS40 was finished, the plan was made that the implementation should happen in something that visually connects the HD 800 and HD 600 series, in a design that would become the HD 700. While the design had some benefits such as fantastic comfort, overall it was not ideal acoustically, and we all know the end of that story. the development of the HD 660S was basically just putting the transducer into the headphone it was made for.
I don't know all the ideas behind the initial parameters, but they had some requirements like lower impedance for better drivability across devices. With the HD 660S2 we have optimized all parameters for what we think is ideal music playback, ie. much better detail retrieval and more impactful bass.

Thank you very much for all the "insider" information and for the time you took to reply in detail! This helps a lot to avoid some speculation, new or long lasting, but also to understand better the evolution of the headphones in the same family.

 

[headstef]

HD560


NDH30

We know now officially by Sennheiser that:

"The highest performance version of it (SYS38 driver) sits in the HD 560S, with the new polymer blend diaphragm and a very light aluminium voice coil. This transducer is also implemented without changes in the NDH 30. However, Neumann is incredibly strict on tolerances for this model in a way that it's on the edge of what's possible in headphone series production, which may contribute to positive characteristics like soundstage."
... though we see some changes in photos which underline that Neumann left nothing in chance.

Also in Sennheiser (Sonova) web-page:

- The HD 560S transducers are specifically tuned for accuracy, offering dependable A/B comparisons of components, remasters, and media formats.
- Superb detail retrieval with fast, clear bass response
- All-new transducer with high-strength magnet effortlessly reproduces deep, defined bass and brilliant treble
- We've listened carefully to our customers' demands for neutral reference headphones and have delivered on all fronts: accurate bass response, clarity above 10kHz... ... the HD 560S represents a paradigm shift for open, dynamic headphones and invites you to discover the audiophile world." - Jermo Köhnke, Product Manager Audiophile.

I think Neumann chose brilliantly a hi-tech Sennheiser driver to develop a new reference by absolute standards, as all users comments suggest!

 

[IXOYE]

I have a feeling that 660s will be a sought after headphone when it's not available for sale anymore, I certainly won't sell mine even if I get S2 later.

 

[jonathan c]

HD-660S2, when driven by Woo WA3 (Tung Sol 5998, pair RFT ECC81 [foil getter]), is an incredibly and musically coherent transducer. In my case, emotional involvement & satisfaction are guaranteed!

 

[chesebert]

Better than Auteur or Atrium (other than soundstage)?

 

[jonathan c]

Better than Auteur or Atrium (other than soundstage)?

I cannot say ‘better’. The overall presentation to me is different from that of Auteur or of Atrium - but just as musically plausible, as emotionally fulfilling.

 

[tamleo]

Many reviews on other forums said the s2 doesn’t have the coarse sounding of the s1 but above comments here said the s1 to be more relaxing. I am confused..

 

[Audiowood]

HD-660S2, when driven by Woo WA3 (Tung Sol 5998, pair RFT ECC81 [foil getter]), is an incredibly and musically coherent transducer. In my case, emotional involvement & satisfaction are guaranteed!

That's an awesome setup you have there. Ohhh.. those cables are so sexy.. I feel like going to your house for a listen now. ALwasy luv the look of both the HPA V2 and WA6. Almost got the WooAudio amp when it first launce 13-14yrs ago..

 

[SchwizzelKick66]

Many reviews on other forums said the s2 doesn’t have the coarse sounding of the s1 but above comments here said the s1 to be more relaxing. I am confused..

I'm in the camp that the S2 sounds smoother/ more refined than S1. S2 has better dynamics but loses the sharp edge the S1 had on some frequencies, especially lower treble.

 

[Thomasr]

1. I've never owned an HD6x0, but am strongly considering it
2. The 660S2 currently costs CAD$800
3. The 600 currently costs CAD$400
4. *edit* Holy crap, the 660S is also down to CAD$400 right now

Discuss. For someone who's looking for an entry to "that legendary 6x0 sound" is the S2 genuinely worth twice it's siblings?

Well I pulled the trigger on the 660S - should be arriving today - and in the meantime the price on Amazon has gone back up by $100.

 

[Rob80b]

Well I pulled the trigger on the 660S - should be arriving today - and in the meantime the price on Amazon has gone back up by $100.

but still the same reduced price direct from Sennheiser.
https://www.sennheiser-hearing.com/en-CA/p/hd-660s/

https://www.sennheiser-hearing.com/en-us/p/hd-660s/

 

[pneumonia]

Just got mine, off the bat I noticed an improvement in the treble, increase in bass and more depth in the soundstage.

Gonna sit with them for a while but enjoying them so far. Running off xDuoo TA-20 tube amp, & Mojo 2.

 

[CaptainFantastic]

We know now officially by Sennheiser that:

"The highest performance version of it (SYS38 driver) sits in the HD 560S, with the new polymer blend diaphragm and a very light aluminium voice coil. This transducer is also implemented without changes in the NDH 30. However, Neumann is incredibly strict on tolerances for this model in a way that it's on the edge of what's possible in headphone series production, which may contribute to positive characteristics like soundstage."
... though we see some changes in photos which underline that Neumann left nothing in chance.

Also in Sennheiser (Sonova) web-page:

- The HD 560S transducers are specifically tuned for accuracy, offering dependable A/B comparisons of components, remasters, and media formats.
- Superb detail retrieval with fast, clear bass response
- All-new transducer with high-strength magnet effortlessly reproduces deep, defined bass and brilliant treble
- We've listened carefully to our customers' demands for neutral reference headphones and have delivered on all fronts: accurate bass response, clarity above 10kHz... ... the HD 560S represents a paradigm shift for open, dynamic headphones and invites you to discover the audiophile world." - Jermo Köhnke, Product Manager Audiophile.

I think Neumann chose brilliantly a hi-tech Sennheiser driver to develop a new reference by absolute standards, as all users comments suggest!

But does it also mean that the NDH 30 uses an "inferior" driver compared to the 600, 650, 660S and 660S2 drivers? SYS38 vs SYS40. Jermo spoke of some quite clear limitations of the 560S driver (SYS38) inherent from its build materials.

"At the audiophile team of Sennheiser/Sonova, we have done a multitude of listening tests (also for the HD 660S2) and found that it compromises brilliance and detail retrieval. This is partly because the internal damping is so strong that the initial impulse at high frequencies may not be replicated accurately (it's slightly "blunted")."