[pp312]

Quote:

The treble improved but still was relatively rolled off compared to my other phones.
 

I've said this unnumerable times but it's always worth a repeat: most cans are waaaaaaaay too bright. That doesn't mean you shouldn't prefer them, or they're crap or whatever, just that in comparison to live music heard from a typical listening distance they're not realistic. If anyone thinks the 650 is too dull he should take himself off to the nearest live concert, preferably with acoustic not electric instruments, seat himself at a middle distance and see if what he hears more resembles the balance of the 650 or the cans by which he's judging the 650. If he's honest he'll admit that the 650 is the best balanced in terms of realism, which of course doesn't mean he should necessarily choose them for home listening. He may still think they're too dull, but at least he'll know they're realistic.     

 

[Solude]

CDs are not recorded from a good distance at a live show... even concert CDs.  So that distance balance may match what happens to audio over distance but not the recording.

 

[Maxvla]

All you need to do to hear the effect Solude is talking about is listen to the percussion tests on the Chesky Audiophile Test Disc 2. He plays the drum kit from 3 feet, then 6, 9, etc... all the way to like 75 feet. At 75 feet all you can hear are simple thuds and compressed crashes, but at 3 feet, of course, it sounds great. The only difference is the distance.
 
The difference between using my HD600 from a sound card to throwing a couple watts at them is truly night and day. They open up and come to life. The veil is lifted, the bass is more present, but still under complete control.

 

[RiGLEY]

Thanks for all the input. I will report back after my new soundcard (hopefully with a better D/A converter) and headphone amp arrive. Oh by the way I know it is not an audiophile solution but I have tried to increase the highs with an EQ, and I really liked the result.

 

[wind016]

but if you sit in front of a rock band first row, it sounds like a Grado. ouch.  cheers to grado masochists
 
Quote:

I've said this unnumerable times but it's always worth a repeat: most cans are waaaaaaaay too bright. That doesn't mean you shouldn't prefer them, or they're crap or whatever, just that in comparison to live music heard from a typical listening distance they're not realistic. If anyone thinks the 650 is too dull he should take himself off to the nearest live concert, preferably with acoustic not electric instruments, seat himself at a middle distance and see if what he hears more resembles the balance of the 650 or the cans by which he's judging the 650. If he's honest he'll admit that the 650 is the best balanced in terms of realism, which of course doesn't mean he should necessarily choose them for home listening. He may still think they're too dull, but at least he'll know they're realistic.     

 

[Novalis]

Quote:

I've said this unnumerable times but it's always worth a repeat: most cans are waaaaaaaay too bright. That doesn't mean you shouldn't prefer them, or they're crap or whatever, just that in comparison to live music heard from a typical listening distance they're not realistic. If anyone thinks the 650 is too dull he should take himself off to the nearest live concert, preferably with acoustic not electric instruments, seat himself at a middle distance and see if what he hears more resembles the balance of the 650 or the cans by which he's judging the 650. If he's honest he'll admit that the 650 is the best balanced in terms of realism, which of course doesn't mean he should necessarily choose them for home listening. He may still think they're too dull, but at least he'll know they're realistic.     

^ This

 

[Audio-Omega]

If you like the sound of HD650 then it is worth upgrading other components.  My rig is built on HD650 and it scales up well with better components.  

 

[pp312]

     Quote:

but if you sit in front of a rock band first row, it sounds like a Grado. ouch.  cheers to grado masochists
 

 

If you sit in the front row of a rock band you won't need headphones because you'll be totally deaf.

 
It's true that Grado and Sennheiser are aimed at totally different users; one glance at the Headroom FR graphs reveals that. It really depends on whether you want accuracy or a particular effect, and it bugs me a little when people describe Sennheiser as "boring" (usually referring to either the 650 or 595) because they don't have the false treble spike of Grados or ATs or Beyers. The 650 is just a beautiful headphone, and I would say to the OP that if you find it muffled, get yourself a decent amp (could be a good integrated--doesn't matter) and then give yourself time to adjust to the more natural balance of the 650 over the false sparkle of other phones. It's worth it, believe me.

 

[Mr Joboto]

^ And that's why I have both
 
PS, if you liked the result you got from the EQ, be happy

 

[stokitw]

I will never say Senn is accurate and Grado is just particular effect.
The truth is, the Grado is very accurate as for giving you a front row sound.
Grados from SR60 to RS-1 all try to give you first three rows sounding in a concert or recital hall very consistently.
However, even HD800 fails to give you a realistic position of where you're sitting especially for small scale recording.
If a recording is recorded in a small recital hall, it should sound like recital hall instead of large concert hall.
Grados gives you that but with the trade off of putting in the very front row (not the best position you want to sit on for critical music listening).
Some phones try to add the reverberation to create the "hall" the "soundstage", this is especially redundant when you listening to well-recorded plays.
The added size of so called soundstage is never accurate in any sense.

 
Quote:

     Quote:


If you sit in the front row of a rock band you won't need headphones because you'll be totally deaf.

 
It's true that Grado and Sennheiser are aimed at totally different users; one glance at the Headroom FR graphs reveals that. It really depends on whether you want accuracy or a particular effect, and it bugs me a little when people describe Sennheiser as "boring" (usually referring to either the 650 or 595) because they don't have the false treble spike of Grados or ATs or Beyers. The 650 is just a beautiful headphone, and I would say to the OP that if you find it muffled, get yourself a decent amp (could be a good integrated--doesn't matter) and then give yourself time to adjust to the more natural balance of the 650 over the false sparkle of other phones. It's worth it, believe me.

 

[xnor]

... says the Grado fan. -_-
 
I can say one thing for sure: treble spikes, resonances, increased distortion etc. have nothing to do with accuracy.

 

[nigeljames]

Relative to other cans like K701,sa500,HD800 etc the HD650's will always have a muffled, veiled sound regardless of amp.
Listened to exclusively you may not notice it with a good amp, which will go someway to reducing the effect, but it will always be there.

 

[Bilavideo]

Look at this chart.  It shows the 650's frequency response compared to its closest siblings.

 

[kingtz]

Is that huge dip a little past 10k that's what making the HD650s sound "dark"?

 

[DDVX]

The HD800 looks like the best of both worlds between the 600 and 650. Of course we would hope that considering the price tag.