[Vikingatheart]

Quote:

 
On the juice for the HD600, quantity matters less than quality unless you have a severe deficit we're talking about something that lacks both altogether (sounds like crap on a 5mW+5mW rms iPod, even a 31mW+31mW max Cowon, but it's good with the HM602 and I heard it's great with the S:Flo2). I've tried mine with all sorts of amps and they all sound different, but barring most portable players, they did well. My "reference" rig now is just the HD600 straight off my 20-year old Marantz CD60's headphone out, and the difference with a Little Dot MkII between them was far from night and day. I have the foam driver covers off though so that might have increased the sensitivity a bit (if it was measured from behind the veil and then without it.)

So there is a chance that if I put it on high gain, I might actually get enough juice and be pleased with the results? Obviously I won't know until I try it, however. 
 

 

[tdockweiler]

Been listening to the HD-600 for a week now I think. I think the standard cable is really holding it back so I ordered an HD-650 cable.
Eventually I'll make my own or buy a cheap one. I've seen a few silver cables for around $110-$130 (new). It's too bad those Sennheiser plugs were not easier to find.
 
The HD-600 for me is kind of a snore fest. I never realized how neutral it was when I had one before. At least my pair sounds that way. No frequency jumps out at me really. I don't mean anything negative by saying this.
Even on poorly mastered recordings, MY HD-600 seems to tame the treble a bit which is annoying. My HD-650 didn't do this much.
 
I've taken out the foam from behind the earpads and replaced it with some speaker fabric. It's so thin that you can almost see through it.
 
I've read about a mod that involves removing the foam from BEHIND the driver, but I don't know if it's worth the risk.
 
None of my other headphones are as close to neutral as my HD-600 (which maybe isn't as neutral as I think?), but the closest one might be the AKG K240 Sextett LP I have, but that's a bit brighter.
 
If I wanted to fall asleep with a pair of headphones on, I'd pick the HD-600, even over the HD-650 somehow. I actually found the HD-650 to have more treble and better clarity and more detail, but I didn't like many things about it, so I downgraded to the HD-600.
The HD-600 sure doesn't try to do anything to impress me, but I do like this sometimes. I wish the sound was as clear as the HD-650 though. It's probably just that cheap cable holding me back.
 
Right now it feels as if the HD-600 is just slightly better than the HD-598 in SOME areas. I do love the soundstage of the HD-598, but the sound is probably a less clear than the HD-600. I haven't compared them side by side yet. For gaming I prefer the HD-598 mostly and there's no contest really. HD-600 still isn't too bad for gaming. BTW I still find myself tempted to get another HD-650. I returned mine due to a defect and not liking it's bass much. It seems there is just no perfect match. Vocals on the HD-650 are addicting.
 
BTW I had the older HD-600 in the past and this one feels slightly more clear and less muffled. Can't complain about that. Still think the sound clarity could be a bit better. I guess if it was, then nobody would buy the HD-650

 
 

 

[Vikingatheart]

Tdock, have you listened to any Grados before? I love my SR225i because of how clear it is, and it honestly does color music but in a way that I LOVE! With that said, I want a neutral can, so the HD600 sounds like the perfect match, but I was hoping you could maybe compare the two (not necessarily the 225i specifically, but that would be great if you could). 

 

[tdockweiler]

I own a Grado SR-80 that's modded but it's mostly in the closet collecting dust. I even replaced the headband with one from a DJ100! Perfect fit and super comfortable now.
I had the Grado 325i years back and always hated it. At the time I had spent a ton of money on it, but this is back when anything over $100 for a headphone was a lot to me!
I think I hated it so much that I sold it within a few weeks. I love forward sounding mids, but that 325i experience kind of makes me not want to spend more money on a Grado. The MS-2 sounds interesting though. It's also just that the Grado headphones don't play well with my head sadly.
 
I think I screwed up my SR-80 because now it doesn't sound as clear as I remembered. Maybe I'm spoiled by all these new headphones I've heard lately.
 
I think the 325i was the most treble happy headphone I've ever heard in my life. This is coming from someone who doesn't find the treble on the DT-880, DT-990 or K701 a problem at all!
 
I shouldn't compare the 325i to the HD-600, but for someone coming from the 225i (if it's similar to the 325) the HD-600 would be quite a shock I think! I think the HD-600 and a Grado are complete opposites.
 
Quote:

Tdock, have you listened to any Grados before? I love my SR225i because of how clear it is, and it honestly does color music but in a way that I LOVE! With that said, I want a neutral can, so the HD600 sounds like the perfect match, but I was hoping you could maybe compare the two (not necessarily the 225i specifically, but that would be great if you could). 

 

 

[Vikingatheart]

Honestly, thats exactly what I'm looking for! I want a totally different experience. Well, I guess its time to start saving my pennies 

 

[Syan25]

So much for the HD600 appreciation...

 

[Brent Hutto]

I guess one person's "less muffled" is another's "more edgy". And vice versa.

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Quote:

I guess one person's "less muffled" is another's "more edgy". And vice versa.

 
That's the crux of it.  Oh, and if you've underamped the HD 600 the so-called "veil" certainly comes out of the woodwork...  Rather, they need enough voltage swing to remove the oft-spoken-of "veil".

 

[imackler]

I'm considering getting the HD600. I'm willing to pair it up with a descent desk top amp. But is there any sense using an Ipod classic w/ line out with an amp to HD600? Or is that wasting the potential of the HD600? I'm a little confused at how bad the Ipod dac compared to a quality dac.The advice I'm getting is that even a <$200 amp/dac will kill the Ipod; if that's the case, what's the sense of amping the ipod?
 
I'd appreciate any advice!
 

 

[Brent Hutto]

Your HD600 and my HD650 should be virtually identical in terms of their demands on the amplification and source material. I use an iPod Classic with line out to a Schiit Asgard, driving an HD650. Sounds wonderful. There is absolutely no validity to the notion that you're somehow misusing or "wasting" a good headphone unless you buy hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of gear to use with it.

Yes, the HD600 needs more voltage swing, current sourcing and damping than an unamped iPod (or other DAC) can provide. So to get the most out of it you'll want an amp and you'll want one that runs off more than a 3V-6V power supply. My little Asgard ($200 used) is plenty. But no you don't need anything more than your iPod can provide as source.

Might you like your HD600 even better with a $500 DAC and a $500 amp in front of it? Heck yeah, you might just. But that's like saying I might like to ride in First Class next time I'm on a plane. Sure, it might be nice. But I'll get there just fine in Coach.

 

[imackler]

This is all very exciting and encouraging!
 
How do you get the line out to the Schiit? I was considering it, but doesn't it just have RCA inputs? Do you have a line out to RCA cable or a sendstation? What cable are you using?
 
Quote:

Your HD600 and my HD650 should be virtually identical in terms of their demands on the amplification and source material. I use an iPod Classic with line out to a Schiit Asgard, driving an HD650. Sounds wonderful. There is absolutely no validity to the notion that you're somehow misusing or "wasting" a good headphone unless you buy hundreds or thousands of dollars worth of gear to use with it.

Yes, the HD600 needs more voltage swing, current sourcing and damping than an unamped iPod (or other DAC) can provide. So to get the most out of it you'll want an amp and you'll want one that runs off more than a 3V-6V power supply. My little Asgard ($200 used) is plenty. But no you don't need anything more than your iPod can provide as source.

Might you like your HD600 even better with a $500 DAC and a $500 amp in front of it? Heck yeah, you might just. But that's like saying I might like to ride in First Class next time I'm on a plane. Sure, it might be nice. But I'll get there just fine in Coach.

 

 

[Brent Hutto]

This is what I use as an all-purpose dock, line-out, charging station.

Very fancy, overkill really. But I like it. It'll even do video out which I don't use. I posted some review comments if you're interested.

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/547042/sieben-technology-z-docks#post_7374445

Before the Z-dock I used one of these

which in terms of audio quality is indistinguishable from the fancier A/V dock since it's just a passive line-out connector.

Available here for about 30 bucks.

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Quote:

This is all very exciting and encouraging!
 
How do you get the line out to the Schiit? I was considering it, but doesn't it just have RCA inputs? Do you have a line out to RCA cable or a sendstation? What cable are you using?

The Asgard is good, but I have to admit that I like the iBasso PB1 more (owning both), if just for the convenience (beyond the sound, for which both are more than adequate).  I source it with my Clip+ - an iPod with it would be perfect for a portable hi-fi setup.

The downsides compared to the Asgard are this:
 
1. Doesn't look as awesome.
2. Isn't designed/made in the USA with amazing customer service.
3. Scratchy volume pot compared to the amazingly quiet one on the Asgard.  (It's fine when you don't move it though.)
4. Balanced (e.g. bridged) operation needed for maximum voltage swing on the PB1.
 
The upsides:
 
1. Balanced and single-ended operation at the same time (the HD 600 balanced + Grados are actually very close in SPL, perfect for a friend!).
2. Portability and crazy-long battery life.
3. Virtually identical sound quality.  Perhaps slightly brighter than the Asgard, which goes well with the HD 600.
 

 

[imackler]

Thanks for the advice!
 
All but the part about "balanced" was clear to me. What does balanced operation mean? Does this require a different cord for the HD600? As well, I'm not sure what "balanced and single ended operation" mean. Thanks!
 
Quote:

The Asgard is good, but I have to admit that I like the iBasso PB1 more (owning both), if just for the convenience (beyond the sound, for which both are more than adequate).  I source it with my Clip+ - an iPod with it would be perfect for a portable hi-fi setup.

The downsides compared to the Asgard are this:
 
1. Doesn't look as awesome.
2. Isn't designed/made in the USA with amazing customer service.
3. Scratchy volume pot compared to the amazingly quiet one on the Asgard.  (It's fine when you don't move it though.)
4. Balanced (e.g. bridged) operation needed for maximum voltage swing on the PB1.
 
The upsides:
 
1. Balanced and single-ended operation at the same time (the HD 600 balanced + Grados are actually very close in SPL, perfect for a friend!).
2. Portability and crazy-long battery life.
3. Virtually identical sound quality.  Perhaps slightly brighter than the Asgard, which goes well with the HD 600.
 

 

 

[BlackbeardBen]

Quote:

Thanks for the advice!
 
All but the part about "balanced" was clear to me. What does balanced operation mean? Does this require a different cord for the HD600? As well, I'm not sure what "balanced and single ended operation" mean. Thanks!

 
 
In layman's terms, the signal in a bridged/balanced amplifier is coming from both terminals instead of just the so-called "+", so there's no common ground between the two channels.  It's a bit more complicated that that; Wikipedia does a pretty good job at explaining in an unbiased and unsensational manner: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bridged_and_paralleled_amplifiers
 
There's lots of unfounded hype out there that exaggerates benefits and makes outright unsubstantial claims as to improvements with balanced operation.  It's more important to look at the product as a whole.  In the case of the iBasso PB1, it is excellent anyway.
 
Here is some more info on the real implications of balanced drive, including comments by the esteemed Nelson Pass:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-state/148709-bridged-vs-conventional-amps.html
 
And yes, it does mean a new cable for headphones - or at least a re-termination in the case of cables with full length grounds on both sides.  iBasso does sell an HD 650 cable re-terminated with the right connection for a very reasonable price ($39).