[bracko]

  To help get us get back on topic, I'll share a little anecdote. I recently visited a professional mastering engineer who works with a major symphony orchestra, with millions in the budget, and when I went into his studio to see some of his gear, I was happy to see a pair of HD 600 on his mastering desk. There were no other headphones around, except a few DT 770's in the recording room, for the musicians. I knew he could afford HD 800 and even more expensive headphones, so I asked him why he only used the 600. He said it was pure ignorance to believe sound stage is anything special... It simply is the way the drivers are positioned, and that affect is not always desirable, especially since it always creates sibilance issues and pushes the music farther from your ears. The point of using a headphone in addition to monitors is to bring the music closer to you, so you could work with it intimately. He basically thought the HD 600 was a better headphone that the HD 800, and didn't pay any attention to the price differences. He said he uses it a lot during mixing and mastering and sometimes even forgets what's playing - his monitors or the headphones. He said the 600's are natural sounding headphones and people shouldn't be afraid to mix/master almost entirely on them, and, according to him, they'd only really need monitors when checking for reverb, since headphones don't interact with the room.
 
He wasn't a headphone nut like most of us here, so he quickly changed the conversation and talked about other things even more enthusiastically (his mixing technique, how he deals with musicians during the recording process, how he takes detailed notes of everything happening in a notebook during takes, etc.). But I kept thinking about his HD 600 comments all evening. 

 
He is a wise man.

 

[ubs28]

   
He is a wise man.

Not really. He says sound stage is only due to angle of the drivers. 
 
If that is so, than why does the Genelec 8040 or Adam A7 imaging and soundstage better than the Alesis Monitor One MKII under the same angle? 

 

[bracko]

 
Not really. He says sound stage is only due to angle of the drivers. 
 
If that is so, than why does the Genelec 8040 or Adam A7 imaging and soundstage better than the Alesis Monitor One MKII under the same angle? 

I think that his statement about soundstage is quite uninteresting in this context. What I meant by my comment is that this man's attitude towards headphones in general is wise and healthy. 

 

[DavidA]

  To help get us get back on topic, I'll share a little anecdote. I recently visited a professional mastering engineer who works with a major symphony orchestra, with millions in the budget, and when I went into his studio to see some of his gear, I was happy to see a pair of HD 600 on his mastering desk. There were no other headphones around, except a few DT 770's in the recording room, for the musicians. I knew he could afford HD 800 and even more expensive headphones, so I asked him why he only used the 600. He said it was pure ignorance to believe sound stage is anything special... It simply is the way the drivers are positioned, and that affect is not always desirable, especially since it always creates sibilance issues and pushes the music farther from your ears. The point of using a headphone in addition to monitors is to bring the music closer to you, so you could work with it intimately. He basically thought the HD 600 was a better headphone that the HD 800, and didn't pay any attention to the price differences. He said he uses it a lot during mixing and mastering and sometimes even forgets what's playing - his monitors or the headphones. He said the 600's are natural sounding headphones and people shouldn't be afraid to mix/master almost entirely on them, and, according to him, they'd only really need monitors when checking for reverb, since headphones don't interact with the room.
 
He wasn't a headphone nut like most of us here, so he quickly changed the conversation and talked about other things even more enthusiastically (his mixing technique, how he deals with musicians during the recording process, how he takes detailed notes of everything happening in a notebook during takes, etc.). But I kept thinking about his HD 600 comments all evening. 

Interesting use of HD-600, I've been in 2 different recording studios and only saw Sony's various models MDR-7506, MDR-7510/20, MDR-V6, Beyers DT-770 and DT-150, 1 HD-700 and a few AKG 701/2.  I'm wondering if this is why the current recordings of pop sound so bad?  If a HD-600 was used to do the mixing/mastering then the recording engineer would have a better idea of the final sound, or if they used the HD-600 and try to get a neutral sound it would cause them to raise the bass level to high since the HD-600 is too neutral.

 

[pbeg7]

  I've noticed in the two months I've had the HD600 an annoying squeak in the left part of the headband. Every time the cup rotates on the small swivel, it's emits a small squeak. Is there something I can do to fix it or is buying a new headband the only way to remedy it? I can overlook it but it's still something I'd love to get fixed.

I received my HD600's and I'm having the same creaking sound on the right earcup but only when tension is applied to the headband (i.e. its on my head). Thoughts? It is quite annoying.

 

[bracko]

  Interesting use of HD-600, I've been in 2 different recording studios and only saw Sony's various models MDR-7506, MDR-7510/20, MDR-V6, Beyers DT-770 and DT-150, 1 HD-700 and a few AKG 701/2.  I'm wondering if this is why the current recordings of pop sound so bad?  If a HD-600 was used to do the mixing/mastering then the recording engineer would have a better idea of the final sound, or if they used the HD-600 and try to get a neutral sound it would cause them to raise the bass level to high since the HD-600 is too neutral.

I am quite sure HD600 is a very common referennce/mixing headphone in studios. At least from what I've seen so far.

 

[bracko]

There is one thing that I don't understad when it comes to certain people's description of the sound signature of HD600s. Some say there is "veil" in the sound of HD600. Maybe it is my ears comming from HE500, but honestly I cannot see why the sound signature of the HD600 would be described as veiled (dark?). 

 

[RickB]

  There is one thing that I don't understad when it comes to certain people's description of the sound signature of HD600s. Some say there is "veil" in the sound of HD600. Maybe it is my ears comming from HE500, but honestly I cannot see why the sound signature of the HD600 would be described as veiled (dark?). 

 
I've seen that in reference to the HD650, not the HD600.

 

[pbeg7]

I've seen that in reference to the HD650, not the HD600.

Yeah. The last thing the 600's are is veiled. If anything they have a tad bit more energy up at 10k.

 

[MWSVette]

   
I've seen that in reference to the HD650, not the HD600.

That has been what I have found also...  To me the HD600 is very neutral and no veil.

 

[ubs28]

Interesting use of HD-600, I've been in 2 different recording studios and only saw Sony's various models MDR-7506, MDR-7510/20, MDR-V6, Beyers DT-770 and DT-150, 1 HD-700 and a few AKG 701/2.  I'm wondering if this is why the current recordings of pop sound so bad?  If a HD-600 was used to do the mixing/mastering then the recording engineer would have a better idea of the final sound, or if they used the HD-600 and try to get a neutral sound it would cause them to raise the bass level to high since the HD-600 is too neutral.

The Sennheisers (HD 600, HD 650 and HD 800) are also used.

 

[Arniesb]

Not really. He says sound stage is only due to angle of the drivers. 

If that is so, than why does the Genelec 8040 or Adam A7 imaging and soundstage better than the Alesis Monitor One MKII under the same angle? 

+1 I think Angle is mostly for IMAGING, not soundstage size. I have no doubt in my mind that drivers distance, earpads size and sound characteristics is only big reasons for big soundstage...

 

[aru777]

Waiting for my HD600. Excited!
Amazon has a neat deal of $400 with a $150 gift card included which brings a new HD600 to $250. Almost similar price as used ones.

 

[ColtMrFire]

I just wanna address the recent derail for a sec...
 
The great, but also frustrating thing about this hobby is you're not just reviewing headphones, you're also (by proxy) reviewing your equipment.  My HD600 sounds almost like (for the better) a different headphone from the day I got it to after I made all the tweaks (ERS paper, jitterbugs, upgrading to Bifrost), that's a bit of an exaggeration, but you get my drift.  So by natural extension you will be talking about your chain right along with the cans if you start tweaking things... this isn't even getting into DSPs, EQ'ing, mods, etc...
 
As such, my music sounds alot more engaging now (more "musical"), and I didn't have to switch headphones in order for that to happen.  Sometimes switching cans will do that, but sometimes if you have high quality cans, they will scale along with equipment upgrades/tweaks.  So in a way, everyone has a different pair of HD600... and I don't think it's a bold statement to say some sound better than others, depending on the equipment.  My HD600 sounded amazing when I first got them in 2012, even with just a plain 'ol Audioengine D1 DAC/amp (which frankly wasn't adequate upon hindsight), but that was because they were my first hi-fi cans... so there are varying levels of "amazing", and it's not until I started improving my chain did I realize I didn't know what I was actually missing.
 
I feel like it's a great opportunity to share tips and tricks with others so they might also investigate improving their sound experience without buying another set of cans. This is a long way of justifying thread derails 

 

 

[MorrisL]

 
Not really. He says sound stage is only due to angle of the drivers. 
 
If that is so, than why does the Genelec 8040 or Adam A7 imaging and soundstage better than the Alesis Monitor One MKII under the same angle? 

I don't think I'm ever going to see him again to ask for clarification, but why do you think he'd say that about sound stage? Maybe I misunderstood him, but I'm pretty sure I remember him saying that if high-quality dynamic drivers are used in a headphone, sound stage is simply an illusion created by how they are placed in the enclosure and their distance from the ears. This, he said, has little effect on the quality of sound... simply an illusion about where the sounds are coming from. May be desirable for some applications, may be unnecessary for others.
 
If this is an ignorant claim, I'd really like to know why.