[palmfish]

Quote:

Hello, first time poster.  A little history, I got interested in putting together a headphone system  after browsing a thread on a different forum where members posted pics of their headphone rigs.  These ran the gamut from entry level to high end, it was interesting reading, a new world of audio I had not explored yet.  Then I came here and explored for a few weeks for some education.  Last week I found a set of lightly used HD 600's on CL and decided to take the plunge.  After some haggling I got them for $175 which I hope was a decent price.  They look new, no chips/scratches on the headband, cable like new, pads show little wear.  Now that I had some headphones I decided to go full steam ahead and get an amp.  After reading what seemed like a bazillion reviews/impressions here I ordered a Valhalla last Saturday.  It's back ordered so I've been listening via an Oppo BDP-83SE --> Pio Elite AVR in the mean time.  The AVR seems to drive these OK but being a complete noob I can't say that with any authority, but I'm liking what I'm hearing.   I read that the HD 650 cable is beefier and some say better sounding so I ordered one along with a Mogami 10ft extension cable.  Neither has arrived yet.  Any opinions on the Mogami cable?   Well that wraps it up for now, I'm going back to get acquainted with my 600's. 
 
 
 
 

Great story and first post. I can relate with where you're coming from. You have a nice setup! I also have an Oppo BDP-83 (not an SE) and a Pioneer Elite SC-25 and HD600's. I connect my Oppo via HDMI to take advantage of the Pioneers wonderful Wolfson DAC. I have found the headphone output of the AVR competent, but not really noteworthy. The full frequency range is there and everything sounds pretty neutral, it's just a little flat and lifeless. So do you run your SE to your Pioneer via HDMI? That would allow analog connection to a dedicated headphone amp - no DAC required because the SE already has a good one.
 
An external amp will definitely help, but in my opinion, don't waste your time with tubes. I think buying a tube amp is like buying a restored 1967 Camaro. It looks cool and turns heads, but a new Honda Accord is less expensive, faster, corners better, stops shorter, is more comfortable, is more reliable, and gets better gas mileage. The Senns are pretty easy to drive so you don't need a huge amount of power - a well designed solid state amp will serve you the best.
 
As for aftermarket cables, they're an even worse investment in my opinion. They are like those magnets you can buy to put in your gas tank to "align the ions" in the fuel to improve combustion resulting in increased horsepower and fuel economy. Don't drink the snake oil - the cable that came with your HD600's is all you need.

 

[calist3r]

Can I use the built-in amp on the Fostex HP-P1 with this headphones?
 
I remember that someone compared the built-in amp on this thing to the ALO continental and claimed it's like a difference between a good SS amp and a good tube amp. They are in the same league, it's just that they have different flavor.
 
With that in mind, I think I have just found an all-in-one solution.
I can use the amp on this thing with the line-out from the Xonar and the HD600 as a desktop rig.
I can also use the Fostex with my iPod Classic and UM3X as a portable rig.
 
What do you guys think?  Is the built-in amp on the Fostex a step-up from the built-in amp on the Xonar?

 

[JRoMan]

I successfully put the new headband on the broken pair of HD 580 I acquired. All in all, a pretty easy process. I got new ear pads, too. Now it looks like I have a brand new pair of HD 600!
 
These really are extremely comfortable. Now I can actually listen to these things, though I am relegated to driving them from my AV receiver for now. The 6.3>3.5mm adapter didn't arrive along with the other parts (I only have the HD 650 cable), so I can't plug in to my headphone amps, yet.

 

[catchthecarp]

Quote:

Great story and first post. I can relate with where you're coming from. You have a nice setup! I also have an Oppo BDP-83 (not an SE) and a Pioneer Elite SC-25 and HD600's. I connect my Oppo via HDMI to take advantage of the Pioneers wonderful Wolfson DAC. I have found the headphone output of the AVR competent, but not really noteworthy. The full frequency range is there and everything sounds pretty neutral, it's just a little flat and lifeless. So do you run your SE to your Pioneer via HDMI? That would allow analog connection to a dedicated headphone amp - no DAC required because the SE already has a good one.
 
An external amp will definitely help, but in my opinion, don't waste your time with tubes. I think buying a tube amp is like buying a restored 1967 Camaro. It looks cool and turns heads, but a new Honda Accord is less expensive, faster, corners better, stops shorter, is more comfortable, is more reliable, and gets better gas mileage. The Senns are pretty easy to drive so you don't need a huge amount of power - a well designed solid state amp will serve you the best.
 
As for aftermarket cables, they're an even worse investment in my opinion. They are like those magnets you can buy to put in your gas tank to "align the ions" in the fuel to improve combustion resulting in increased horsepower and fuel economy. Don't drink the snake oil - the cable that came with your HD600's is all you need.

Well thank you, palmfish.  I have the Oppo connected to the Pio using the Mch in(I prefer these for SACD/DVD-A) and HDMI.   Once my Schiit arrives I'm planning on running the Oppo's 2 Ch outs directly to it.  I use the pre-outs from the Pio to an external amp to drive my speakers. Using the pre-outs on the Pio had an unexpected result, the pre-outs are always active.  When the phones are plugged into the HP jack on the Pio I still get sound going to my speakers.  I can't listen to my 600's without bothering everyone else in the house, one of the reasons for getting a set of phones in the first place.  I checked out the Pio's manual, no way around it if you use the pre-outs.  
 
Love the Camaro analogy... I used to own 68 SS ragtop.  I went with Schiit primarily because it's American made and received decent reviews.  I had a hard time deciding between  the Asgard and the Valhalla.  I've never owned any tube gear so that was the attraction to the Val.  So you think a SS amp would be a better choice?  I'm contemplating calling Schiit and switching to the Asgard as it's in stock.
 
Your preaching to the choir on audio cables.... 

  Most of my audio cables/interconnects are from Blue Jeans, perfectly happy with 'em.  I will admit to buying a couple of used Pangea power cords for my Opppo and Rotel amp.  They didn't cost much and are well made, much better than the flimsy el-cheapo stock cords. Did they make my gear sound any better?  I'll take the 5th...... 
 

 

[N0sferatu]

Quote:

Hello, first time poster.  A little history, I got interested in putting together a headphone system  after browsing a thread on a different forum where members posted pics of their headphone rigs.  These ran the gamut from entry level to high end, it was interesting reading, a new world of audio I had not explored yet.  Then I came here and explored for a few weeks for some education.  Last week I found a set of lightly used HD 600's on CL and decided to take the plunge.  After some haggling I got them for $175 which I hope was a decent price.  They look new, no chips/scratches on the headband, cable like new, pads show little wear.  Now that I had some headphones I decided to go full steam ahead and get an amp.  After reading what seemed like a bazillion reviews/impressions here I ordered a Valhalla last Saturday.  It's back ordered so I've been listening via an Oppo BDP-83SE --> Pio Elite AVR in the mean time.  The AVR seems to drive these OK but being a complete noob I can't say that with any authority, but I'm liking what I'm hearing.   I read that the HD 650 cable is beefier and some say better sounding so I ordered one along with a Mogami 10ft extension cable.  Neither has arrived yet.  Any opinions on the Mogami cable?   Well that wraps it up for now, I'm going back to get acquainted with my 600's. 
 
 
Welcome!  That's a great price.  I paid about the same for my used pair and they came equipped with the HD650 cable.  That's the extent for cable upgrades from my standpoint.  I like that the 650 cable looks "beefier' than the 600's.  Enjoy your new headphones.  If you have access to some EQ'ing I recommend that on the HD600.  I usually run it 3dB hot below 120Hz and then I drop the pre-amp load to -3dB so to not distort.  Sounds much more "alive" yet still retains the incredible mids and highs.    It just makes them harder to drive because you've dropped the rest of the spectrum down 3dB but it sounds like that won't be an issue for you. 
 

 

 

[palmfish]

Quote:

Well thank you, palmfish.  I have the Oppo connected to the Pio using the Mch in(I prefer these for SACD/DVD-A) and HDMI.   Once my Schiit arrives I'm planning on running the Oppo's 2 Ch outs directly to it.  I use the pre-outs from the Pio to an external amp to drive my speakers. Using the pre-outs on the Pio had an unexpected result, the pre-outs are always active.  When the phones are plugged into the HP jack on the Pio I still get sound going to my speakers.  I can't listen to my 600's without bothering everyone else in the house, one of the reasons for getting a set of phones in the first place.  I checked out the Pio's manual, no way around it if you use the pre-outs.  
 
Love the Camaro analogy... I used to own 68 SS ragtop.  I went with Schiit primarily because it's American made and received decent reviews.  I had a hard time deciding between  the Asgard and the Valhalla.  I've never owned any tube gear so that was the attraction to the Val.  So you think a SS amp would be a better choice?  I'm contemplating calling Schiit and switching to the Asgard as it's in stock.
 
Your preaching to the choir on audio cables.... 

  Most of my audio cables/interconnects are from Blue Jeans, perfectly happy with 'em.  I will admit to buying a couple of used Pangea power cords for my Opppo and Rotel amp.  They didn't cost much and are well made, much better than the flimsy el-cheapo stock cords. Did they make my gear sound any better?  I'll take the 5th...... 
 

I forgot the SE has 2 sets of analog outs - multi-channel and stereo. You're right to just run the stereo outs to the headphone amp. Funny, since I started getting interested in headphones last summer, I really haven't spent a lot of time with my multi-channel system. I'm not sure why, but headphones are just fun for me.
 
I don't want to stray too far off topic, but just as with home theater, there are many products that don't live up to their hype. The higher impedance of the HD600's does help them pair up with a larger number of amps, but you should still look for a well engineered, high quality unit if you can. There is a lot of information out there about what specifications are important for a headphone amp. One good article to get you started is here...
 
http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/discuss/feedback/newsletter/2011/12/2/0-ohm-headphone-amplifier-sonic-advantages-low-impedance-headphone-amp.
 
Also, do a Google search for the Objective2 headphone amp. I have one and love it.

 

[catchthecarp]

 
 
Quote:

 If you have access to some EQ'ing I recommend that on the HD600.  I usually run it 3dB hot below 120Hz and then I drop the pre-amp load to -3dB so to not distort.  Sounds much more "alive" yet still retains the incredible mids and highs.    It just makes them harder to drive because you've dropped the rest of the spectrum down 3dB but it sounds like that won't be an issue for you.

Thanks for the comments NOs.  I haven't listened to my phones driven by an amp yet so I think that adding EQ is over my head at this point.  I appreciate the advice though. 

 

[catchthecarp]

Quote:

I forgot the SE has 2 sets of analog outs - multi-channel and stereo. You're right to just run the stereo outs to the headphone amp. Funny, since I started getting interested in headphones last summer, I really haven't spent a lot of time with my multi-channel system. I'm not sure why, but headphones are just fun for me.
 
I don't want to stray too far off topic, but just as with home theater, there are many products that don't live up to their hype. The higher impedance of the HD600's does help them pair up with a larger number of amps, but you should still look for a well engineered, high quality unit if you can. There is a lot of information out there about what specifications are important for a headphone amp. One good article to get you started is here...
 
http://www.benchmarkmedia.com/discuss/feedback/newsletter/2011/12/2/0-ohm-headphone-amplifier-sonic-advantages-low-impedance-headphone-amp.
 
Also, do a Google search for the Objective2 headphone amp. I have one and love it.

Thanks for the link, I will check it out.  I looked at the O2 but I don't believe it currently has inputs I could use with my Oppo.  Or did I read it wrong(highly likely).   
 

 

[juman231]

As long has your Oppo has a line-out, you can just connect that to O2's line in.

 

[Willakan]

Yup, all you need is a RCA to 3.5mm cable, which will probably put you back about $5. Alternatively, you can DIY the O2 and simply wire in RCA plugs (what I did). 

 

[Eee Pee]

Quote:

 that level of superiority between the two is negligible as far as my own enjoyment of music is concerned.

Key point there.  I can listen to these 600s for hours without a thought as to the gear, but when I have on the 800s, I sure as heck know and realize I have them on, and I never forget it.  I'm always expecting the best, and usually they do very well, but I can't just let go and melt away.  Maybe it's because I know this that I can't let go.  I need to mentally let go...  Maybe it's because I'm expecting four times the difference, but am not getting it.
 
Maybe the 600s are just that good?  

 

[N0sferatu]

Quote:

Key point there.  I can listen to these 600s for hours without a thought as to the gear, but when I have on the 800s, I sure as heck know and realize I have them on, and I never forget it.  I'm always expecting the best, and usually they do very well, but I can't just let go and melt away.  Maybe it's because I know this that I can't let go.  I need to mentally let go...  Maybe it's because I'm expecting four times the difference, but am not getting it.
 
Maybe the 600s are just that good?  

The 600s I think are the best bang for your buck headphone out there.  Personally I'm not a fan of the HD800s I've heard both a stocker and a modded one on a Ray Samuels Dark Star and while it sounded nice I still prefer the HD600s (call me crazy...)
 
There are times I think of selling my Denon AH-D7000s because I don't use them as much as my HD600s but when I have a bass urge I can't help but go back to them...otherwise HD600 all the way!

 

[Eee Pee]

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 (call me crazy...)

I will (respectfully) do so.  

 

[catchthecarp]

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Yup, all you need is a RCA to 3.5mm cable, which will probably put you back about $5. Alternatively, you can DIY the O2 and simply wire in RCA plugs (what I did). 

Went back and re-read it, you're absolutely correct.  I have the O2 on my radar, that's sure an interesting blog to read.    

 

[mrAdrian]

Just thinking, if a company like Sennheiser can release first the HD580, sell them for such a long time span, did no upgrades and continue to sell the HD600... Then offer a side upgrade for a more fun signature labeled HD650... How many years did they take to actually 'move on' to the HD800, a more superior can (in their research team's eyes at least)? Just how long was the life span was this 'King of Headphones'?
 
Curious