[FlySweep]

Originally Posted by Techno Kid /img/forum/go_quote.gif

Its tuff for me to chose one also so I'm glad I don't have to having both and they do compliment each other great.  The reason I think the HE-400 is a bit better technically over all is because I think the portray a bit more micro detail and the bass is so clean and nice sounding but the HD600 is also an awesome HP and I love the fact and can put them on press play and listen for hours no problem.  Both are very comfortable to me and I have no problem wearing them for 4 or 5 hours straight.  Like I've said I'm so glad a made the jump to HP's over IEM's but I wish I did it sooner because they sound just better imo and the open feel of the soundstage is a big part of that.

 
Agreed.  A deciding factor for many who are stuck between the HD600 & HE-400 is where their midrange presentation preferences lay.  I typically can't get on with phones that feature a recessed/v-shaped FQ curve.  Regardless of genre, the most crucial part of music (the midrange) is set 'behind' the bass and treble.  The midrange is where most instruments, sounds, and voices originate.  While the HE-400's tuning isn't explicitly v-shaped, the midrange is slightly recessed.  What's unique is how linear the HE-400's bass is slightly boosted, but it's also very linear.. the upper mids through treble are mostly tuned down (lending itself to that 'dark' sound') while the upper treble is boosted.  So the HE-400 isn't expressly v-shaped, but it's presentation harkens back to that shape in some ways.  That being said, the HE-400's midrange has excellent clarity and resolving ability.. so despite being recessed, it's very clear and easy to make out minute details.
 
The HD600's midrange presentation is almost the opposite of this: its slightly enhanced, midbass-centered bass tuning and smooth, rolled off treble gives the midrange the feeling that it's positioned slightly forward in relation to the bass & treble.  The HD600's midrange is truly magical in it's ability to sound smooth, transparent, airy and liquid.. all at the same time.  I'm still not sure which phone resolves better.. many would say the HE-400 is the winner due to it's orthodynamic driver that has a very effortless sound.. but IME, I find mid-fi/hi-fi orthos to compare quite favorably to dynamics they directly compete with (like the HD600).  This goes back to how you're driving the phones.  I thought the HD600 had hit a ceiling with some of the very nice amps I had tried.. then I listened to the HD600 on a few rigs that were even higher up the 'proverbial' food chain and I was shocked by how well they scaled.  At first glance, it might not seem ideal to pair a $400 phone with a $1000-$1500 amp/upstream rig.. but the HD600 is no ordinary $400 headphone!  It certainly has limitations.. but I still think it's underestimated due to it being a 'classic' phone.

 

[jonojace]

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Nice man the e7/e9 and Hd600 is the best set up I've ever had (and that I've listened to for longer than 10 minutes) I'm not completely sure yet but I think I might want to upgrade my e7/e9 to a bifrost & asgard 2 or lyr, keeping the HD600 and squeezing out all of the quality.  And then eventually upgrading the HD600s to LCD 2s or something along those lines.  Feels like I'd be making a massive jump from HD600 to LCD 2 but I guess there isn't very much ground to cover in between.
 
I actually really like the amount of bass the E7/E9 produces with the HD600.  Then again I haven't had any quality time with better set ups so I can't say very much.

I had pretty much the same first impressions as you did when I had my e7/e9 combo. Both the HD600 and the e7/e9 were my first pair of open headphones and dac/amp, so I also had no other points of reference. I really liked the sound signature and detail. I just wasn't so sure about the warmth/bass and whether I could listen to the setup for long periods of time. 
 
When I made the 'jump' to the Magni/Modi I was a little worried that it might be a sideways upgrade and not produce any improvements to the areas where I wanted it.
 
I think if you really like the amount of bass that you're currently getting with the HD600, you should try and audition a warmer setup if you can.
- I've not heard the LCD2 myself but it should be a fair bit warmer, more detailed and darker than the HD600. It should also have killer bass.
- And just upgrading to the bifrost/asgard2 or lyr should produce a warmer sound than what you're getting now. (Especially with the tubes of the lyr)
 
Along with a lot of people in the thread, I think you've got some headroom to upgrade the amp/dac with the HD600 if you're looking to change the sound signature and clarity. I heard a drastically different sound at the low price point of the Magni/Modi, and I'm sure you'll hear an even bigger difference with the higher Schiit offerings! When you eventually get your LCD2 I think you'll have a decent all around setup as the HD600 should have a fairly different sound signature(if you keep both that is 

). So all in all I totally agree with your upgrade path, I have my eyes on the LCD2 next also (or a bottle head crack)!

 

[jonojace]

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Funny that you said how good the HD600 sounds with the Mac Book. I have on order a refurbished HD650 and I'm working on deciding on a combo for the HD650. But I'm wondering just how good the Macbook is so at least its a great source. Thanks

Yeah I've not heard many people say the same! I'm going to the London Head Fi meet in the next couple of weeks so I'll update how the HD600 and HD650 sound on the Magni/Modi and any other setups I can hog some time on. I would recommend you get the Magni/Modi if you're on a budget, but I've not heard any other similarly priced setups apart from the e7/e9, or any more expensive setups.

 

[Mitchm]

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Yeah I've not heard many people say the same! I'm going to the London Head Fi meet in the next couple of weeks so I'll update how the HD600 and HD650 sound on the Magni/Modi and any other setups I can hog some time on. I would recommend you get the Magni/Modi if you're on a budget, but I've not heard any other similarly priced setups apart from the e7/e9, or any more expensive setups.

Sounds like a nice trip lucky you. Please fill me in when you can.
Thanks

 

[Tuco1965]

Well after roughing up my F5 key I see my Lyr set for delivery today.  I'm really looking forward to hearing my 600s driven by this.  I'll have to line up a good stack of discs and listen away.  

 

[Techno Kid]

Its hard to believe that the HD600 has basically been around since 91 or 92 when the HD580 came out because that's really what they are.  The anniversary addition HD580 is a HD600 with a carbon fiber look then the next year Sennheiser came out with the HD600.  If you put the HD600 or 650 grill on the HD580 it sound pretty much exactly like the HD600 so its basically a 21 year old headphone that still competes with much newer HP's and sounds better than most in its price range.  That's just amazing to me that these have stood the test of time for that long because electronic based items tend to get dated rather quick but not the HD600.  
 
If anyone can think of a 20 year old headphone that sounds as good or better than the HD600 or other modern headphones let me know because I'd like to check them out.

 

[linglingjr]

If anyone can think of a 20 year old headphone that sounds as good or better than the HD600 or other modern headphones let me know because I'd like to check them out.

Many believe the orpheus is the best headphone ever made, and those were released way back in 1991 as well. This is the reason why I like audio so much, I can spend $1000 on a headphone and not have its price drop by 50% a year later (like my gpu will probably be worth $250 at best next year)

 

[Techno Kid]

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Many believe the orpheus is the best headphone ever made, and those were released way back in 1991 as well. This is the reason why I like audio so much, I can spend $1000 on a headphone and not have its price drop by 50% a year later (like my gpu will probably be worth $250 at best next year)

 
How much was the Orpheus when it was released?

 

[mrAdrian]

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Its hard to believe that the HD600 has basically been around since 91 or 92 when the HD580 came out because that's really what they are.  The anniversary addition HD580 is a HD600 with a carbon fiber look then the next year Sennheiser came out with the HD600.  If you put the HD600 or 650 grill on the HD580 it sound pretty much exactly like the HD600 so its basically a 21 year old headphone that still competes with much newer HP's and sounds better than most in its price range.  That's just amazing to me that these have stood the test of time for that long because electronic based items tend to get dated rather quick but not the HD600.  
 
If anyone can think of a 20 year old headphone that sounds as good or better than the HD600 or other modern headphones let me know because I'd like to check them out.

 
I am an extremely happy owner of a pair of HD580, not only because it was hell of a bargain price at $140, but also because the fact it is older and more vintage, AND that I like the plain black look better than the marble
 
Your last statement is quite strong however... You should definitely check out some of the very best headphones made 10~20 years ago, one example I could think of is the AKG K400 / K500. They are different sounding but if you like the AKG's clarity, soundstage and leaner mids - lower mids - bass, you are in for a treat provided you can still find them.
 
My recent (probably the final 'big' headphone purchase) AT W10VTG also exhibited a very very lovely sound signature that I never thought it would actually work. Hazzy treble + EXTREMELY DETAILED MIDS + a touch more than neutral midbass = unique and very lovely warm sound. That's the first W series Audio Technica made and yet, very very nice.
 
I'm sure there are other examples out there... Ex-flagships imo is where the gold is at in this hobby, because something that has a nice FR 20 years ago will still be favourable today.

 

[Techno Kid]

Well I meant to say other headphones in its price range, I'n not talking about a $1000 headphone or anything.

 

[vid]

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Its hard to believe that the HD600 has basically been around since 91 or 92 when the HD580 came out because that's really what they are.
 
If anyone can think of a 20 year old headphone that sounds as good or better than the HD600 or other modern headphones let me know because I'd like to check them out.

 
Sennheiser made very, very similar headphones already in the late '80s - called the HD 560. Many will also tell you the HD 540 from the mid-'80s are comparable to the HD 6xx series. So the 600 or 580 didn't come out of thin air with awesome technology even in the early '90s, rather it appears to have been a very gradual development and indeed the HD 600 can be said to be based on some very old designs.
 
Thinking of good 30-year-old headphones that sound as good or better than (in the latter case, some) modern phones is easy. Of the ones I have, Beyer DT 990 (the 1980s version), AKG K 250, Yamaha HP-50S, Sennheiser HD 530, and Sennheiser Unipolar 2000. These are of course subjective opinions.

 

[xaval]

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Sennheiser made very, very similar headphones already in the late '80s - called the HD 560. Many will also tell you the HD 540 from the mid-'80s are comparable to the HD 6xx series. So the 600 or 580 didn't come out of thin air with awesome technology even in the early '90s, rather it appears to have been a very gradual development and indeed the HD 600 can be said to be based on some very old designs.
 
Thinking of good 30-year-old headphones that sound as good or better than (in the latter case, some) modern phones is easy. Of the ones I have, Beyer DT 990 (the 1980s version), AKG K 250, Yamaha HP-50S, Sennheiser HD 530, and Sennheiser Unipolar 2000. These are of course subjective opinions.

Add the Stax Lamba (normal bias). Still one of the best mids around and the stat sound on top of that. On my Jadis the bass actually has punch... Gradoish mid highs too. My pair dates back to the early 70s.

 

[Techno Kid]

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Sennheiser made very, very similar headphones already in the late '80s - called the HD 560. Many will also tell you the HD 540 from the mid-'80s are comparable to the HD 6xx series. So the 600 or 580 didn't come out of thin air with awesome technology even in the early '90s, rather it appears to have been a very gradual development and indeed the HD 600 can be said to be based on some very old designs.
 
Thinking of good 30-year-old headphones that sound as good or better than (in the latter case, some) modern phones is easy. Of the ones I have, Beyer DT 990 (the 1980s version), AKG K 250, Yamaha HP-50S, Sennheiser HD 530, and Sennheiser Unipolar 2000. These are of course subjective opinions.

 
I've seen the Yamaha HP-50S, that isn't an old orthodynamic one from Yamaha is it?

 

[Techno Kid]

I've heard that back in the 70's and 80's there were some very good sounding headphones and when I think about it it makes sense as its just a headphone, if you use quality parts and know what your doing than whether its old or new they can still sound very good.  HP's are getting better with technology like everything else and I can't wait to get either the HE-400's big brother in the HE-500 or the Audeze LCD-2 Rev 2.

 

[eke2k6]

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I can't wait to get either the HE-400's big brother in the HE-500 or the Audeze LCD-2 Rev 2.

 
Neither can I. I'm pretty interested in your thoughts on the HE-500. As a matter of fact, Headamp has a 30 day money back guarantee if you don't like the headphones. You can buy one now, and have that safety blanket to fall back on should you not like it.