[FaezFarhan]

Which Koss budget headphones are they referring to?

Prolly Portapro haha!

 

[Sonic Defender]

  I'm going to gamble on a pair by year's end. I'll budget for a Fiio E12A as well. 
 
I'm seeing a ton of posts claiming that koss budget headphones are just as good, but I'm going to roll the dice and see if a higher end headphone actually works for me. 

If it is the Koss PortaPro, I still own a set, they aren't anywhere near the HD600 to my ears. Very respectable sound quality for the size, but beyond that the HD600 is pretty safe.

 

[Argyris]

Prolly Portapro haha!

 
That would have been my guess. I have one of those. I'm not the best person to make a comparison between it and the HD 600 because I'm not a huge fan of the PortaPro. I feel it's a bit overrated, though that might be largely down to it not being my preferred tonal balance. Where it falls down for me (very subdued upper midrange presence and poor treble extension), the HD 600 excels, so it's difficult for me to separate that out and judge each solely on some (likely arbitrary) performance basis.
 
That all said, I feel there are some reasonably objective advantages to the HD 600. It has better frequency bandwidth, better extension on both ends, less bass distortion (though still a fair amount the lower you go), and a more even overall tonal contour. The PortaPro might be nice for its price if you like its tonal balance, but I still think it would be difficult to say it's just as good as an HD 600.
 
Now the KSC-75? I couldn't say. A friend of mine bought a pair of them about five years ago. Technically I have heard it, for about five minutes, and I don't think I was getting a proper fit because I remember fiddling with the ear clips and not feeling like the cups were coupling with my ears properly. I can't remember a single thing about how it sounded.

 

[danmlr]

The comparison was to portapro. 
 
The reviews are just over the top fantastic for the 600. If it works out, I feel like I'll have found what I'm looking for in sound signature. If it doesn't work out, it's another sale or return. I don't know why the prospect of returning or selling bothers me, but it does. It's not so much the hassle of the sale or return, but more a gnawing sense of the headphone game yielding tiny, diminishing returns with a huge bump in price, primarily due to placebo effect. 
 
Based upon head fi recommendations my batting average is pretty low. I've come across a ton of crap low cost IEM's and burned through a handful of grado models as well. 
 
It really shouldn't bother me if a pair of headphones doesn't work out, right? I guess all of those overblown expectations, followed by a round of "you didn't use the right amp" criticisms may be a bit annoying, at worst. .
 
Head fi has certainly steered me in the correct direction as far as FIIO products, however, save the X32G which I didn't like very much. 
 
Quite frankly, I'm bracing myself for disappointment, but I hope it works out nonetheless. 

 

[Sonic Defender]

  It's not so much the hassle of the sale or return, but more a gnawing sense of the headphone game yielding tiny, diminishing returns with a huge bump in price, primarily due to placebo effect. 
 
 

With headphones, while there is indeed a diminishing returns factor, it is less so than with other gear. Speakers and headphones will always make a more noticeable difference in my opinion so depending on what you are coming from the HD600 is likely to be noticeably different, and not from placebo.
 
It took me a number of years to try the HD600 and I think it deserves a great deal of the praise it gets. It is a pretty solid headphone so I think there is a good chance you are not going to be disappointed, but who knows, time will tell. I hope it works for you mate.

 

[danmlr]

I've actually been very pleased with the FIIO amp and DAP recommendations on this site. The hype for these products is well worth it. 
 
I'm far more skeptical about the headphone side of the equation. Like I said, there's a 90% probability I'll be disappointed, but I think it's worth a try. 

 

[Sonic Defender]

  I've actually been very pleased with the FIIO amp and DAP recommendations on this site. The hype for these products is well worth it. 
 
I'm far more skeptical about the headphone side of the equation. Like I said, there's a 90% probability I'll be disappointed, but I think it's worth a try. 

Again, I don't know what headphone your comparing against, but if you find a DAP makes a great difference, well a headphone should make a much more noticeable difference unless you were using a very poorly designed DAP or device before. Why would you be so convinced you will disappointed? You know expectation bias works both ways, you can pre-condition your expectations very easily. I think if you are reading many reviews and impressions from very experienced headphone users, if anything, you should 90% be expecting a positive difference. In the end, it is of course subjective, so I can only hope it works for you.
 
What are you using to drive the HD600? I'm not somebody who says you need megabuck amps and DACs, but hopefully you're not trying to drive it with an underpowered DAP or something. I don't know your gear so no offense meant, for all I know you have a killer amp/DAC.

 

[DavidA]

  The comparison was to portapro. 
 
The reviews are just over the top fantastic for the 600. If it works out, I feel like I'll have found what I'm looking for in sound signature. If it doesn't work out, it's another sale or return. I don't know why the prospect of returning or selling bothers me, but it does. It's not so much the hassle of the sale or return, but more a gnawing sense of the headphone game yielding tiny, diminishing returns with a huge bump in price, primarily due to placebo effect. 
 
Based upon head fi recommendations my batting average is pretty low. I've come across a ton of crap low cost IEM's and burned through a handful of grado models as well. 
 
It really shouldn't bother me if a pair of headphones doesn't work out, right? I guess all of those overblown expectations, followed by a round of "you didn't use the right amp" criticisms may be a bit annoying, at worst. .
 
Head fi has certainly steered me in the correct direction as far as FIIO products, however, save the X32G which I didn't like very much. 
 
Quite frankly, I'm bracing myself for disappointment, but I hope it works out nonetheless. 

The reviews are going to tend to be over the top fantastic since it is the HD-600 thread and if someone says otherwise then he/she will get blasted that they don't know what they are talking about.  Seems like many don't like to hear that what they think is a great headphone is not great or held in the same regard by others.
 
Grado's are a love or hate headphone for many so I can understand why you didn't like them.
 
As for Fiio products, they are great deals IMO, very affordable and provide decent to great sound from my limited experience with them so far, I only have DAPs (X1, X3, and X3ii) and have only tried some of the portable amps (which didn't seem to sound better than just the DAP but I didn't use them with hard to drive headphones)
 
My HD-600 came and went in 7 months, I sold it to a friend with the intention of getting another somewhere down the road but after building some other headphones I don't see my self ever owning one again due to the easier to drive and better sounding (IMO) nature of the custom built headphones.

 

[Argyris]

  The comparison was to portapro. 
 
The reviews are just over the top fantastic for the 600. If it works out, I feel like I'll have found what I'm looking for in sound signature. If it doesn't work out, it's another sale or return. I don't know why the prospect of returning or selling bothers me, but it does. It's not so much the hassle of the sale or return, but more a gnawing sense of the headphone game yielding tiny, diminishing returns with a huge bump in price, primarily due to placebo effect. 
 
Based upon head fi recommendations my batting average is pretty low. I've come across a ton of crap low cost IEM's and burned through a handful of grado models as well. 
 
It really shouldn't bother me if a pair of headphones doesn't work out, right? I guess all of those overblown expectations, followed by a round of "you didn't use the right amp" criticisms may be a bit annoying, at worst. .
 
Head fi has certainly steered me in the correct direction as far as FIIO products, however, save the X32G which I didn't like very much. 
 
Quite frankly, I'm bracing myself for disappointment, but I hope it works out nonetheless. 

 
Well, for what it's worth, the HD 600 doesn't sound anything like a Grado. Nothing whatsoever. It's probably not going to sound like any low cost IEM, either, though I'll say this much: if you come to the conclusion that it does, tell me what that IEM is because I want it!
 
I think if you go into it expecting disappointment, that's just what you'll get. You need to put those past experiences behind you and go into it with a clean slate to give the HD 600 a fair shake. You also need to give it a bit of an adjustment period, since first impressions are often in comparison to a previous reference or a preconceived notion about how a headphone is going to sound. Listen to it on its own for a while and see how you feel about it over time, rather than dwelling on something you noticed in the first few seconds of listening.

 

[kman1211]

   
Well, for what it's worth, the HD 600 doesn't sound anything like a Grado. Nothing whatsoever. It's probably not going to sound like any low cost IEM, either, though I'll say this much: if you come to the conclusion that it does, tell me what that IEM is because I want it!
 
I think if you go into it expecting disappointment, that's just what you'll get. You need to put those past experiences behind you and go into it with a clean slate to give the HD 600 a fair shake. You also need to give it a bit of an adjustment period, since first impressions are often in comparison to a previous reference or a preconceived notion about how a headphone is going to sound. Listen to it on its own for a while and see how you feel about it over time, rather than dwelling on something you noticed in the first few seconds of listening.

Grado's do sound very different, I don't really find the new "e" Grados too bright and they do have a certain liquidness to them the Senns don't have. Never been too familiar with the older Grados, only heard a few of the 'e' series.
 
When I first got the HD 600 I was actually quite disappointed with it and I had high expectations, it took me spending exclusive time with it for me to appreciate it but it always left me felt mixed, I did realize later on it wasn't the best match for my system at the time either. The reason the HD 600 disappointed me was just how narrow and congested it sounding compared to it's older sibling the HD 545(was released alongside the HD 565 and HD 580) which had an absolutely massive soundstage in comparison but didn't have the same body, smoothness, and impact of the HD 600 and doesn't sound quite as right as the HD 600. But over time I grew to appreciate the HD 600 and while I did sell it a while ago I am planning to purchase another pair. I have no plans to get an HD 650 again as honestly I find the interestingly tuned AQ Nighthawk to completely replaced the HD 650 and honestly find it much better to my ears, especially in terms of vocal body/depth/realism(despite the vocals a bit more recessed than the HD 650), imaging, and clarity. But I found the HD 600 after listening to it again extensively can live comfortably alongside the Hawks as I grew to really appreciate it's presentation.

 

[Marc Lian]

Tyll has updated the wall of fame for full size open headphones, great to see the HD 600 holding strong on it even with the inclusion of the new headphones knocking off some serious offerings.

 

[Argyris]

  Tyll has updated the wall of fame for full size open headphones, great to see the HD 600 holding strong on it even with the inclusion of the new headphones knocking off some serious offerings.

 
It's hard to beat. Its technical flaws (bass rolloff, lower bass distortion, slight upper midrange push) are very easily forgiven by its price and by the fact that they're generally not viewed as showstoppers, unlike the treble issues common to many other headphones (even some ostensibly higher end ones), which can cause fatigue over long listening sessions. I remember Tyll musing about whether or not the HE-400S would knock the HD 600 off the Wall, but in the end he just couldn't do it and elected to keep both on there. The HD 600 is not going to be in danger from higher priced flagships as they occupy a lower price bracket; we'll see if in the coming years the likes of HiFiMAN and others (or maybe even Sennheiser themselves?) will target this range with even better headphones that will one day dethrone the reining value king.
 
In fact, if anybody from any headphone company is reading (I'm pretty sure they're not), I'm going to issue you a challenge: Kick the HD 600 off the Wall of Fame. Release a $300-$500 headphone with similar tonality and overall performance, but with better bass extension and lower distortion. The key here is not to make it yet another expensive flagship, as that isn't really beating the HD 600, it's just releasing an improved headphone but charging a lot more money for it. No, you need to beat it by pricing your headphone in the same range and offering a product that performs better.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Those crickets sure are deafening.

 

[kman1211]

   
It's hard to beat. Its technical flaws (bass rolloff, lower bass distortion, slight upper midrange push) are very easily forgiven by its price and by the fact that they're generally not viewed as showstoppers, unlike the treble issues common to many other headphones (even some ostensibly higher end ones), which can cause fatigue over long listening sessions. I remember Tyll musing about whether or not the HE-400S would knock the HD 600 off the Wall, but in the end he just couldn't do it and elected to keep both on there. The HD 600 is not going to be in danger from higher priced flagships as they occupy a lower price bracket; we'll see if in the coming years the likes of HiFiMAN and others (or maybe even Sennheiser themselves?) will target this range with even better headphones that will one day dethrone the reining value king.
 
In fact, if anybody from any headphone company is reading (I'm pretty sure they're not), I'm going to issue you a challenge: Kick the HD 600 off the Wall of Fame. Release a $300-$500 headphone with similar tonality and overall performance, but with better bass extension and lower distortion. The key here is not to make it yet another expensive flagship, as that isn't really beating the HD 600, it's just releasing an improved headphone but charging a lot more money for it. No, you need to beat it by pricing your headphone in the same range and offering a product that performs better.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Those crickets sure are deafening.

 I never really fully agreed with Tyll and a lot of the headphones on the wall of fame I can't agree with. I don't really view the wall of fame as a definitive guide on how good headphones are, but I understand why he chooses the ones he does. The headphones with more potential than the HD 600 in the same price range technically are usually plagued by design issues despite having superior transducers, i.e. they are incomplete designs.
 
The HD 6xx are pretty much fully realized headphones, which is rare even among flagships. The only other headphone I heard that I felt was complete that didn't cost an arm and a leg was the Nighthawk. By complete I mean you really have no desire to modify or equalize the headphone to make it sound 'right' after listening to it long term. If problems with the headphone start bothering after long term listening it really isn't complete. The problem with a lot of headphones is how few manufacturers do to try to fully or mostly realize headphones.
 
Of the 30-40ish headphones I've owned, only 3 I felt were complete, the HD 600, HD 650, and Nighthawk. And only four I found almost complete in that some mild modding, mild EQ, or system matching can make them pretty much complete, they were the K612 Pro(Austrian), K712 Pro(Austrian), DT 150, and the DT 1770 Pro. The rest seemed to needed major modding or equing to sound complete if even possible.
 
Do you find the DT 880 to sound complete or almost complete? I have considered getting a pair but never gotten one. I am planning on getting the HD 600 again first. 

 

[danmlr]

  The reviews are going to tend to be over the top fantastic since it is the HD-600 thread and if someone says otherwise then he/she will get blasted that they don't know what they are talking about.  Seems like many don't like to hear that what they think is a great headphone is not great or held in the same regard by others.
 
Grado's are a love or hate headphone for many so I can understand why you didn't like them.
 
As for Fiio products, they are great deals IMO, very affordable and provide decent to great sound from my limited experience with them so far, I only have DAPs (X1, X3, and X3ii) and have only tried some of the portable amps (which didn't seem to sound better than just the DAP but I didn't use them with hard to drive headphones)
 
My HD-600 came and went in 7 months, I sold it to a friend with the intention of getting another somewhere down the road but after building some other headphones I don't see my self ever owning one again due to the easier to drive and better sounding (IMO) nature of the custom built headphones.

Is there a thread on this?

 

[Midgetguy]

   I never really fully agreed with Tyll and a lot of the headphones on the wall of fame I can't agree with. I don't really view the wall of fame as a definitive guide on how good headphones are, but I understand why he chooses the ones he does. The headphones with more potential than the HD 600 in the same price range technically are usually plagued by design issues despite having superior transducers, i.e. they are incomplete designs.
 
The HD 6xx are pretty much fully realized headphones, which is rare even among flagships. The only other headphone I heard that I felt was complete that didn't cost an arm and a leg was the Nighthawk. By complete I mean you really have no desire to modify or equalize the headphone to make it sound 'right' after listening to it long term. If problems with the headphone start bothering after long term listening it really isn't complete. The problem with a lot of headphones is how few manufacturers do to try to fully or mostly realize headphones.
 
Of the 30-40ish headphones I've owned, only 3 I felt were complete, the HD 600, HD 650, and Nighthawk. And only four I found almost complete in that some mild modding, mild EQ, or system matching can make them pretty much complete, they were the K612 Pro(Austrian), K712 Pro(Austrian), DT 150, and the DT 1770 Pro. The rest seemed to needed major modding or equing to sound complete if even possible.
 
Do you find the DT 880 to sound complete or almost complete? I have considered getting a pair but never gotten one. I am planning on getting the HD 600 again first. 

Of the headphones I've heard from Tyll's wall of fame list, I can agree on most of them being up there, HD600 included. The ones that I don't agree with are the new editions from Focal. The Elear is a very good dynamic driver headphone actually, but it's priced a bit high; if it was maybe $700, then yes, but for $1k, it's a bit too steep considering it's characteristics in comparison to something like the HD600. And the Utopia wouldn't make that list for me at all. I didn't like it as it sounded fairly similar to the Elear, which would have been good, but with sibilant highs; certainly not anywhere near worth 4x the entry price of the Elear to my ears.