[Midgetguy]

   
And what about the HiFiMan 400S?  Some say that its signature is very similar to the HD600/650...

I personally consider there to be enough of a difference between the HD600 and HD650 to differentiate the two, if only barely. Mainly in how they present bass and treble. Bit more bass presence resulting in a little sharper treble on the HD650. In that sense, I found the HE400S to be a mid-ground between the HD600 and the HD650. It has more bass presence, so it's like the HD650 in that regard, but it didn't have as sharp of treble so at the same time, that means the treble response was probably a little rolled off to begin with compared to the HD600. Because of its mid response, I'd give a personal edge in details to the HD600 where as the HE400S seemed to have a more laid-back response akin to the HD650. Good deal considering its MSRP is $300 and it can be regularly found for less.

 

[alitomr]

Anyone doubting about the HD600 have to stop and get it. Period. I dont have a lot of experience with a lot of headphones, but I do have heard very expensive speaker systems and it simply doesnt get so much better even for inordinate amounts of money more than what you need to get, say HD600, magni 2 uber and Valhalla 2. For around 825 you have a system to me shocked and awe by the music and the quality being... displayed...
 
Get it. 

 

[Argyris]

  Anyone doubting about the HD600 have to stop and get it. Period. I dont have a lot of experience with a lot of headphones, but I do have heard very expensive speaker systems and it simply doesnt get so much better even for inordinate amounts of money more than what you need to get, say HD600, magni 2 uber and Valhalla 2. For around 825 you have a system to me shocked and awe by the music and the quality being... displayed...
 
Get it. 

 
I would agree with this, if for no other reason than the HD 600 is a good starting point in the hobby. I've come across very few people who don't at least appreciate it, even if it's not their favorite or if they've moved on. For not too much initial outlay, it gives the listener a good idea what headphones are capable of, and if they then want something with a bit more treble, a bit of a v-shaped response, more resolution, better bass extension, etc. it gives others in the hobby a good reference from which to offer relevant recommendations. It also holds its value quite well, meaning as long as one keeps it in good condition, if they want to move on at some point it's easy to make up some of their initial purchase price to help finance the upgrade.

 

[TheEldestBoy]

  I personally consider there to be enough of a difference between the HD600 and HD650 to differentiate the two, if only barely. Mainly in how they present bass and treble. Bit more bass presence resulting in a little sharper treble on the HD650. In that sense, I found the HE400S to be a mid-ground between the HD600 and the HD650. It has more bass presence, so it's like the HD650 in that regard, but it didn't have as sharp of treble so at the same time, that means the treble response was probably a little rolled off to begin with compared to the HD600. Because of its mid response, I'd give a personal edge in details to the HD600 where as the HE400S seemed to have a more laid-back response akin to the HD650. Good deal considering its MSRP is $300 and it can be regularly found for less.

 
I'm thinking of getting the 400S for budgetary reasons; it'll require about the half the initial investment of an HD600 (factoring in the amp/dac needed for the HD600).

 

[Argyris]

   
I'm thinking of getting the 400S for budgetary reasons; it'll require about the half the initial investment of an HD600 (factoring in the amp/dac needed for the HD600).

 
I guess that depends on what you pay for the headphone and the amp, and how much improvement you believe backend equipment can offer. My HD 600 and amp cost me about $350 combined, which is only $50 more than the HE-400S goes for on its own. Nice equipment is nice (redundancy department and all...), but the necessity for it is overblown, IMO. If you want a nice amp and DAC, go for it! Just don't feel like it should be the deciding factor in whether you go with the HD 600 or something else. I actually saw somebody entirely pass up buying the HD 600 recently because they were apparently convinced they needed to spend $1,000 total to make it worth it. Knowing how much musical joy my set has given me in the over a month I've had it, this just broke my heart.
 
Remember, you can always upgrade your backend equipment later on if you feel the urge, whereas it'll be harder to convince yourself buying another headphone is worth it if you eventually want to see what the HD 600 is all about.
 
Not that any of this helps you split the two headphones on performance. I strongly considered the HE-400S as well, based largely on Tyll's strong recommendation. I ultimately went with the HD 600 because it's a proven design with lots of positive impressions over its ~20 year lifespan. Not to mention, the HD-400S requires a set of FocusPads in order to improve the bass extension; with the stock pads, extension is apparently similar to the HD 600.

 

[TheEldestBoy]

   
I guess that depends on what you pay for the headphone and the amp, and how much improvement you believe backend equipment can offer. My HD 600 and amp cost me about $350 combined, which is only $50 more than the HE-400S goes for on its own. Nice equipment is nice (redundancy department and all...), but the necessity for it is overblown, IMO. If you want a nice amp and DAC, go for it! Just don't feel like it should be the deciding factor in whether you go with the HD 600 or something else. I actually saw somebody entirely pass up buying the HD 600 recently because they were apparently convinced they needed to spend $1,000 total to make it worth it. Knowing how much musical joy my set has given me in the over a month I've had it, this just broke my heart.
 
Remember, you can always upgrade your backend equipment later on if you feel the urge, whereas it'll be harder to convince yourself buying another headphone is worth it if you eventually want to see what the HD 600 is all about.
 
Not that any of this helps you split the two headphones on performance. I strongly considered the HE-400S as well, based largely on Tyll's strong recommendation. I ultimately went with the HD 600 because it's a proven design with lots of positive impressions over its ~20 year lifespan. Not to mention, the HD-400S requires a set of FocusPads in order to improve the bass extension; with the stock pads, extension is apparently similar to the HD 600.

 
The cheapest that I can find the 400S here in Canada (new) is $410.00 (before taxes).
The cheapest that I can find the HD600 here in Canada (new) is $585.00 (before taxes).
 
$175.00 more for the HD600, before even considering an amp.
 
Furthermore, I can run the 400S straight from my iPhone (I wouldn't take them outside of course; I'm just talking about moving around inside my house). 
 
I do already have a desktop amp (one that isn't ideal, but should be enough to get me started) for when I'm sitting stationary in my living room.
 
Don't get me wrong - I'd much prefer to get the HD600/650 instead, but the cost difference is a factor here.
 
As you say though, once I commit to the 400S I'm not likely to justify purchasing the HD600 anytime soon after that.  I'm considering saving up for awhile longer and just going with the HD600 (or HD650, which is $50.00 more the the HD600).

 

[Sonic Defender]

@TheEldestBoy, those retail prices are too high. As much as I like the HD 600, I wouldn't want to go beyond $499 Canadian new and used in really good condition not more than say $375. Now maybe I'm lucky, but I got mine used with 60 hours as the owner wanted bassier headphones so he traded these plus gave me $120 cash for my mint TH 600. I think we both equally won in that deal as I wanted the HD 600 to pair with an OTL amp I have (La Figaro 339).

 

[TheEldestBoy]

  @TheEldestBoy, those retail prices are too high. As much as I like the HD 600, I wouldn't want to go beyond $499 Canadian new and used in really good condition not more than say $375. Now maybe I'm lucky, but I got mine used with 60 hours as the owner wanted bassier headphones so he traded these plus gave me $120 cash for my mint TH 600. I think we both equally won in that deal as I wanted the HD 600 to pair with an OTL amp I have (La Figaro 339).

 
I think I may have seen the HD600 dip below $500,00 CDN on Amamzon.ca before, but it's currently listed there at $585.00.
Fingers crossed that it'll dip below $500.00 again one day soon

 

[koven]

hd6x0 is much better than the 400s, from comfort to SQ it was not even a close comparison for me personally and furthermore, hd600 is $250 and 400s is $300 at least in US

 

[Sonic Defender]

  hd6x0 is much better than the 400s, from comfort to SQ it was not even a close comparison for me personally and furthermore, hd600 is $250 and 400s is $300 at least in US

The HD 600 is over-priced in Canada. Try finding it new anywhere near the price you are finding in the US. I haven't heard the 400s, but I owned the 400i and it certainly was no slouch at all. I didn't have it to directly compare to the HD 600, but going by memory it is pretty close, but the HD 600 is more refined, but the 400i was certainly more comfortable.

 

[koven]

  The HD 600 is over-priced in Canada. Try finding it new anywhere near the price you are finding in the US. I haven't heard the 400s, but I owned the 400i and it certainly was no slouch at all. I didn't have it to directly compare to the HD 600, but going by memory it is pretty close, but the HD 600 is more refined, but the 400i was certainly more comfortable.

 
i have a business trip to our vancouver office in 2 weeks, anyone want a $250 hd600 new? just kidding not worth my carry-on space..
 
i thought the 400s sucked, just my opinion no big deal

 

[Sonic Defender]

   
i have a business trip to our vancouver office in 2 weeks, anyone want a $250 hd600 new? just kidding not worth my carry-on space..
 
i thought the 400s sucked, just my opinion no big deal

I could see that, but did you hear the 400i by chance? I have heard they are tuned differently. And for the record, again, going by memory, if I had to decide between the 400i and HD 600, I think I might have to go HD 600, but it isn't by a wide margin, the 400i is very nice, at least I thought so.

 

[koven]

  I could see that, but did you hear the 400i by chance? I have heard they are tuned differently.

 
no but from what i have read the 400i is noticeably better than the 400s, and to be fair i dont think the amps i tried were ideal for planars.. i was mainly comparing the two w/ a vali 2 and little dot mk3 both of which probably favors the hd6x0

 

[Argyris]

   
The cheapest that I can find the 400S here in Canada (new) is $410.00 (before taxes).
The cheapest that I can find the HD600 here in Canada (new) is $585.00 (before taxes).
 
$175.00 more for the HD600, before even considering an amp.
 
Furthermore, I can run the 400S straight from my iPhone (I wouldn't take them outside of course; I'm just talking about moving around inside my house). 
 
I do already have a desktop amp (one that isn't ideal, but should be enough to get me started) for when I'm sitting stationary in my living room.
 
Don't get me wrong - I'd much prefer to get the HD600/650 instead, but the cost difference is a factor here.
 
As you say though, once I commit to the 400S I'm not likely to justify purchasing the HD600 anytime soon after that.  I'm considering saving up for awhile longer and just going with the HD600 (or HD650, which is $50.00 more the the HD600).

 
You know, it's my fault for not asking about your locale or checking earlier in the thread before posting that. I'd forgotten how fortunate I am to live in the States when it comes to the cost of electronics. Other places in the world really get a bum rap when it comes to pricing. Given the prices you're looking at, it's a completely different value proposition. I can definitely see how the HE400S would become quite compelling.

 

[TheEldestBoy]

  hd6x0 is much better than the 400s, from comfort to SQ it was not even a close comparison for me personally and furthermore, hd600 is $250 and 400s is $300 at least in US

 
 

  @TheEldestBoy, those retail prices are too high. As much as I like the HD 600, I wouldn't want to go beyond $499 Canadian new and used in really good condition not more than say $375. Now maybe I'm lucky, but I got mine used with 60 hours as the owner wanted bassier headphones so he traded these plus gave me $120 cash for my mint TH 600. I think we both equally won in that deal as I wanted the HD 600 to pair with an OTL amp I have (La Figaro 339).

 
 

  The HD 600 is over-priced in Canada. Try finding it new anywhere near the price you are finding in the US. I haven't heard the 400s, but I owned the 400i and it certainly was no slouch at all. I didn't have it to directly compare to the HD 600, but going by memory it is pretty close, but the HD 600 is more refined, but the 400i was certainly more comfortable.

 
 

   
You know, it's my fault for not asking about your locale or checking earlier in the thread before posting that. I'd forgotten how fortunate I am to live in the States when it comes to the cost of electronics. Other places in the world really get a bum rap when it comes to pricing. Given the prices you're looking at, it's a completely different value proposition. I can definitely see how the HE400S would become quite compelling.

 
 
I did some more digging online last night, and I've found an online store (www.headphonescanada.ca) that is selling the HD600 for $440.00 and the HD650 for $550.00.  
These prices are certainly more reasonable than what I was finding on Amazon.ca (especially the HD600).
 
At $440.00, the HD600 is only $30.00 more than the 400S.