Selecting your first turntable setup - Get the biggest bang for your buck - Keep it under $2000

[Shaffer]

I have seen some say the arm looks like a weak point of the U-turn so that could make me lean more towards a Pro-Ject.

Consider a used Rega. The arm is in a different league.

 

[yeahx]

I think I will add that to my list as well. I'm not really convinced the U-turn has a bad arm, just some people were speculating on a forum based on pics and because they are new. So I will consider it a possibility but not take it too seriously. Like I said in the turntable picture thread, someone brought me an old Technics SL1300 I could fix up but I think he may want it back. That and the fact that I really like the idea of a simple wood plinth over plastic with knobs and levers all over it.
 
But I suppose I could put a new stylus on it eventually just to test it out and maybe he will let me keep it. 

 

 

[yeahx]

Yes I have noticed the Orotfon Red getting praise on forums and youtube but didn't realized it required adjustable VTA. I have a lot of time to weigh my options but this is good to know. Like I said above, one of the options I am considering is going for a table with the cartridge pre-installed. So if I wanted the Ortofon Red I could get a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon with one installed for $400. Maybe not as good as getting a better table and then installing the Red, may be too low for this thread but not for me.

 

[rb2013]

  Yes I have noticed the Orotfon Red getting praise on forums and youtube but didn't realized it required adjustable VTA. I have a lot of time to weigh my options but this is good to know. Like I said above, one of the options I am considering is going for a table with the cartridge pre-installed. So if I wanted the Ortofon Red I could get a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon with one installed for $400. Maybe not as good as getting a better table and then installing the Red, may be too low for this thread but not for me.

Very good way to go -as you know the factory will install properly.  The 2M's need a 20 degree tilt to sound good.  Other wise the bass will be thin and the treble etchy.  So many under estimate how important proper VTA is.  I learned the hard way many years ago.
 
Nobody said this vinyl thing would be easy!

 

[rb2013]

Project knows what they are doing - the effective mass of that carbon arm is only 6gms!  As a comparison the mass of a Rega RB300 is 11.5gms.  They matched a low mass arm to the 2m Red - right move!
 

Technical specifications	Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (DC)
Speed	33, 45 (manual speed change)
Drive principle	belt drive
Platter	300mm metal with felt mat
Mains bearing	stainless steel
Wow & flutter	+/- 0,10%
Speed drift	+/- 0,80%
Signal to noise	- 68dB
Tonearm	8,6”, Carbon
Effective arm length	218,5 mm
Effective arm mass	6,0 g
Overhang	18,5mm
Tracking force	10 - 30mN
Power connection	110/120 or 230/240 Volt - 50 or 60 Hz
Included accessories	15 volts DC /0,8A power supply, dust cover
Standby power consumption	< 1 watt
Dimensions	415 x 118 x 320mm (WxHxD) lid closed
Weight	5,6 kg net

 
You see this is why you start with picking a cart first then match the arm/table to it.
 
Now in the future you can upgrade to the Blue, Bronze and the truly amazing Black (my cart right now).  They share in the VTA and need for a low mass arm.  The tracking on the Black has to be very precisely set at 1.5gms.

 

[rb2013]

The only downside to the Project tables is the steel platter - better if it was aluminum - like on the Dual CS721 -which has a 3.5 lb dynamically balanced aluminum platter.
 
But I think Project offers a platter upgrade - you just want to be sure thickness is the same - as that can throw off the VTA.  I don't think their arm is adjustable - just set-up at the factory for the 2M Red

Die Cast Aluminum Dynamically
	Balanced, 304 mm, 1.5 kG

 

[yeahx]

I forgot about having to remove the platter to change the speed on that Pro-Ject. I might not end up having to do that very often but that seems like a pain and I will not get a speed box. I was actually considering the U-turn plus which has an acrylic platter and has the belt outside for easier access.

 

[sfo1972]

  Yes I have noticed the Orotfon Red getting praise on forums and youtube but didn't realized it required adjustable VTA. I have a lot of time to weigh my options but this is good to know. Like I said above, one of the options I am considering is going for a table with the cartridge pre-installed. So if I wanted the Ortofon Red I could get a Pro-Ject Debut Carbon with one installed for $400. Maybe not as good as getting a better table and then installing the Red, may be too low for this thread but not for me.

 
 

  Project knows what they are doing - the effective mass of that carbon arm is only 6gms!  As a comparison the mass of a Rega RB300 is 11.5gms.  They matched a low mass arm to the 2m Red - right move!
 

Technical specifications	Pro-Ject Debut Carbon (DC)
Speed	33, 45 (manual speed change)
Drive principle	belt drive
Platter	300mm metal with felt mat
Mains bearing	stainless steel
Wow & flutter	+/- 0,10%
Speed drift	+/- 0,80%
Signal to noise	- 68dB
Tonearm	8,6”, Carbon
Effective arm length	218,5 mm
Effective arm mass	6,0 g
Overhang	18,5mm
Tracking force	10 - 30mN
Power connection	110/120 or 230/240 Volt - 50 or 60 Hz
Included accessories	15 volts DC /0,8A power supply, dust cover
Standby power consumption	< 1 watt
Dimensions	415 x 118 x 320mm (WxHxD) lid closed
Weight	5,6 kg net

 
You see this is why you start with picking a cart first then match the arm/table to it.
 
Now in the future you can upgrade to the Blue, Bronze and the truly amazing Black (my cart right now).  They share in the VTA and need for a low mass arm.  The tracking on the Black has to be very precisely set at 1.5gms.

 
 

  I forgot about having to remove the platter to change the speed on that Pro-Ject. I might not end up having to do that very often but that seems like a pain and I will not get a speed box. I was actually considering the U-turn plus which has an acrylic platter and has the belt outside for easier access.

 
yeahx, not sure if you saw this post earlier in the thread:
http://www.head-fi.org/t/750575/selecting-your-first-turntable-setup-get-the-biggest-bang-for-your-buck-keep-it-under-2000/15#post_11320729
 
The Project Debut carbon is what I ended up buying and pretty much paid less than $750 with shipping for my first Vinyl rig ever. I had zilch before this not even records.  With close to one month now doing quite a bit of listening, I couldn't be happier. I highly recommend the Debut Carbon with the Ortofon 2M Red cartridge. As described by my buddy rb2013, I have a clear upgrade path on the cart which should give a good sonic improvement by going with the bronze or black.
 
I already upgraded the platter. I am fairly comfortable with DIY and I balked at the extortion from Project on the platter upgrades. I went and got a custom made glass platter (12", 10mm thick, with the right size hole for the spindle) for a 1/10th the cost of the platter from Project, photos attached.
 
I have about 50+ hours on the cart, which is a must do of burn-in, to improve the overall sound; especially the bass. My impression of the table so far: Excellent!
 
I would highly recommend it, except for a couple of ground loop hum problems, that were easily treatable.
 
Some photos of the platter, cart, and arm (I think the arm is awesome, very well done):
 

 

 

 

[yeahx]

Oh yeah Im still considering that one, especially after those sweet pics. That platter looks like a pretty awesome upgrade. You just got a hold of a glass company and gave them the specs and got it made?
 
I'm learning to appreciate what I have, it's pretty good but since its old and was free I think it made me feel like it was junk. Taking this time to gather info on a new set up and get some records so I will have something to play on it by then.

 

[sfo1972]

Oh yeah Im still considering that one, especially after those sweet pics. That platter looks like a pretty awesome upgrade. You just got a hold of a glass company and gave them the specs and got it made?

I'm learning to appreciate what I have, it's pretty good but since its old and was free I think it made me feel like it was junk. Taking this time to gather info on a new set up and get some records so I will have something to play on it by then.

Old is good buddy. I love vintage stuff and end up paying an arm and a leg for it. So maintain what you have and you will be happy.

The glass platter was a piece of cake. I drew a simple schematic with a protractor for the outer diameter, the inner diameter and size (spindle) specified thickness and requested edges to be smoothed out so no one gets hurt when putting records. And that was it, I got the glass platter 2 days later.

It's so much better than the metallic one and the goofy mat that always attracted a ton of static.

 

[yeahx]

Yeah I'm having major issues with static using the rubber mat my JVC came with so I'm trying a different one. I really like the look of the dear hide mats and was surprised that they are only around $25. They are supposed to be great for reducing static but I don't think I will get one for this table. Maybe the next if I don't end up with a glass or acrylic platter. (Just read that acrylic can suffer from static badly too though.)
 
Today I'm experimenting with grounding (not working) to see I can reduce static. Even wondering if it would help to just widen the hole in the mat so its not rubbing the spindle while spinning as I'm sure this is  the source of the static causing friction. Update: Oops the spindle spins with it, thought it was stationary.

 

[sfo1972]

 

   
 
I have not heard about Uturn Audio Orbit before, so I will look into it.
 
mironathetin, you are absolutely correct - The TT by no way comes close to DACs or CD+ hirez music. But the main thing about it is the ritual of preparing and listening to the music. The artwork is a big plus and letting your mind rest instead of hunting around for music. Its a personal taste and preference after all. 

 
There is another thing (one of the reasons, why I voted to buy the turntable). CDs, especially remasters, are terribly loudness compressed these days. Vinyl and SACD are made for a sound conscious audience. I read a lot about people saying the SACD master and the vinyl master usually sound better than the CD masters. Did not check this myself so far, but it makes a lot of sense to me.
 
BTW, I promised a photo. I got sick right after I posted this and was in bed for 2 weeks with a flu. Since then, I wasn't near the turntable in daylight. 
 
Edit: photo (click for slightly larger, but head-fi seems to shrink uploads)
Rega Rp3, no extras, Clearaudio Artist V2, made of nice ebony, playing the Speakers Corner release of Beethoven: Concerto for Violin and Orchestra – Wolfgang Schneiderhan and the Berlin Philharmonic Orchestra conducted by Eugen Jochum from 1962 (http://www.speakerscornerrecords.com/products/details/138999/beethoven-concerto-for-violin-and-orchestra)
 

 
 

 
+1
 That looks sweet man! Nothing but the essentials, removing any clutter between you and the music...
 
I have been thoroughly enjoying my TT. As a matter of fact, after moving my stuff to a new listening room I have not had a DAC in there and have been listening exclusively to the TT for the past couple of weeks.  Utter and absolute enjoyment - But all good things have to come to an end, I took delivery of my Bifrost Uber Gen2 DAC this morning...so now its going through the burnin process and site next to the TT 

 

[mironathetin]

   
+1
 That looks sweet man! Nothing but the essentials, removing any clutter between you and the music...

Well, except for a little dust between us an the music.
After we moved the turntable from its initial place to this here, a bit of dust got stuck at the needle. Ruined the sound and was so tiny that I did not see it (old farsighted eyes). Couldn't even blow it away and needed a pair of tweezers (and a very bright torch).
Joys of vinyl... Seems like the needle is scratching the 40 year old groves of our old records clean again.

 

[sfo1972]

 

   
+1
 That looks sweet man! Nothing but the essentials, removing any clutter between you and the music...

Well, except for a little dust between us an the music.
After we moved the turntable from its initial place to this here, a bit of dust got stuck at the needle. Ruined the sound and was so tiny that I did not see it (old farsighted eyes). Couldn't even blow it away and needed a pair of tweezers (and a very bright torch).
Joys of vinyl... Seems like the needle is scratching the 40 year old groves of our old records clean again.

Lol....I am glad you figured it out. I have been dragging my feet on buying the cleaning supplies for my TT setup. Here is what I have in mind, what do you think?
 
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00904KS0Y/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pd_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1KYBTEMQEPOEZ&coliid=I2299ZEDVJ0YZD
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B001A9ST2G/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1KYBTEMQEPOEZ&coliid=I1F8RWSEXRNJ7U
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00IRDLE8Y/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=1KYBTEMQEPOEZ&coliid=I16BC3Q84Y8619
 
I also think these will come in handy:
http://www.amazon.com/RPM-Record-Sleeves-100-Count/dp/B003NG2WIG/ref=pd_sim_op_6?ie=UTF8&refRID=081AZA9PRTREYT3YZFMF

 

[yeahx]

Wow it's about double the price for a clear "special edition" Spin clean? I thought the price was crazy before! I don't know from experience but on a thread somewhere else they seemed to think Mofi sleeves were best I think. That anti static stylus brush seems interesting. Wonder if it works well. I've been using a cotton swab and checking it with a microscope all the time. Kind of crazy but its fun.