[JK-47]

   
I got my LCD-2f for $700 and my HD650 for fgull MSRP $500.  Should I start telling people that's how much they cost?  No, because you're comparing a sale price to MSRP.  I'm just saying, there's no reason to exaggerate the price difference.  The LCD-2 is still about 2x the price of the HD650.

Touche !!! Seems I have struck a nerve. Yes you should tell people how much they cost, and where you got them. Share the savings with the community, that's what this hobby is all about.
 
The bottom line is... the fellow that thinks he has to spend $1000+ to get the full potential out of his Gumby,  doesn't have to.

 

[aamefford]

I requently see MSRP quoted, and used as a basis for comparison.  With camera gear especially, there is also the "street price" frequently quoted.
 
Both are helpful.  MSRP tells you how proud of their product the manufacturer is, and where they expect it to compete in the market, based on it's virtues.  Street price tells you how accurate the manufacturer is with their assumptions via the MSRP.  Or it tells you how well they protect their authorized dealer network....

 

[sheldaze]

  Don't sell a headphone short by judging it by price. My $300 Sennheiser HD650's have no problem competeing with my $1000 LCD2.2F's... The HD650's are a little more picky amp wise, but the detail I'm picking up from my Gungnir Multi bit is neck and neck...

Wow!
 
Sorry, I was offline for a while, but I was actually calling my HD650 my $500 pair (nope, I did not pay that much for it either) and one of the three that did not seem to improve much with the Multibit. The other two are the HiFiMan HE-400S and NAD VISO HP50. The one that made a HUGE improvement with the Multibit and which was quite a surprise to me - Denon AH-D2000.
 
But hearing your enthusiasm, I will certainly go back and listen to my HD650 more closely. This was my best setup, by far: Bifrost Uber > JDS Labs Element > HD650
 
Today it seems: Gungnir Multibit > JDS Labs Element > AH-D2000

 

[theblueprint]

The 650s are known to scale exceptionally well with gear. It's really a gem of the headphone world. It truly has endgame sound with a midfi pricetag.

If I were to start over, I wouldn't hesitate picking one up and calling it quits for awhile.

 

[audiofrk]

  Wow!
 
Sorry, I was offline for a while, but I was actually calling my HD650 my $500 pair (nope, I did not pay that much for it either) and one of the three that did not seem to improve much with the Multibit. The other two are the HiFiMan HE-400S and NAD VISO HP50. The one that made a HUGE improvement with the Multibit and which was quite a surprise to me - Denon AH-D2000.
 
But hearing your enthusiasm, I will certainly go back and listen to my HD650 more closely. This was my best setup, by far: Bifrost Uber > JDS Labs Element > HD650
 
Today it seems: Gungnir Multibit > JDS Labs Element > AH-D2000

ummmm try gungnir > vallhala 2 > hd650 (light mods), with some after market tubes blow any setup, besides some really great ones I heard, out of the water. 

 

[AustinValentine]

  ummmm try gungnir > vallhala 2 > hd650 (light mods), with some after market tubes blow any setup, besides some really great ones I heard, out of the water. 

 
I was going to mention something similar. It seems to me that the JDS Element is the bottleneck in that setup. 

 

[JK-47]

  Wow!
 
Sorry, I was offline for a while, but I was actually calling my HD650 my $500 pair (nope, I did not pay that much for it either) and one of the three that did not seem to improve much with the Multibit. The other two are the HiFiMan HE-400S and NAD VISO HP50. The one that made a HUGE improvement with the Multibit and which was quite a surprise to me - Denon AH-D2000.
 
But hearing your enthusiasm, I will certainly go back and listen to my HD650 more closely. This was my best setup, by far: Bifrost Uber > JDS Labs Element > HD650
 
Today it seems: Gungnir Multibit > JDS Labs Element > AH-D2000

Bring your Senns when you go listen to the higher price cans, and try them with different amps. My MJ2 does not play nice with the HD650's, I tried both SE and balanced. MJ2 and LCD2.2F are amazing, and the LCD's are exceptional with my Elekit as well. Valhalla and Bottle Head Crack with Speedball upgrade are reasonably priced and held in high regard with the HD650's.
 
The NAD HP50's sounded nice with my dads setup, so I bought a set. They didn't go well with what I had so I sold them. I don't have anywhere close to listen before I buy, so I've gone through a bunch of stuff.

 

[sheldaze]

  ummmm try gungnir > vallhala 2 > hd650 (light mods), with some after market tubes blow any setup, besides some really great ones I heard, out of the water. 

  Bring your Senns when you go listen to the higher price cans, and try them with different amps. My MJ2 does not play nice with the HD650's, I tried both SE and balanced. MJ2 and LCD2.2F are amazing, and the LCD's are exceptional with my Elekit as well. Valhalla and Bottle Head Crack with Speedball upgrade are reasonably priced and held in high regard with the HD650's.
 
The NAD HP50's sounded nice with my dads setup, so I bought a set. They didn't go well with what I had so I sold them. I don't have anywhere close to listen before I buy, so I've gone through a bunch of stuff.

Absolutely bringing my HD650 to the show. I know a guy at the show has the Bottlehead and the original Gungnir, and I actually heard my headphones on a Woo Audio WA3 at the last show - both pairings were fantastic. Please let me know if this gets too off topic, but here goes. I still have a Valhalla, but I was planning to sell:
 

1. Is there is a significant difference between generation 1 (which I own) and generation 2? To my ears, there is a glare with my Valhalla that I found I do not like. That is why I migrated to the JDS Labs Element. The Valhalla just exhausts my ears in minutes, even today (listening now) with the Multibit.
2. Is there a burn-in associated with the Valhalla? I've owned it since February, so it has quite a few hours on it. But due to the tiring sound, I've never just sat down and listened for hours, nor have I left the tubes just sitting playing music.

 
Tube upgrades sounds like an option if they can smooth out the glare. But I think I'd prefer a PM or link to the thread posts 

Back to the show!

 

[MattTCG]

Just wanted to chime in with all the hd650 chatter to say, I am very impressed with what the GMB did for my hd650. The 650 has always been very good at tonality especially in the mids, but now with the GMB I getting some much improved detail with this headphone that I didn't even know it was capable of. Very impressed with this combo. 

 

[AndreYew]

 
My MJ2 does not play nice with the HD650's, I tried both SE and balanced.

I wonder if you could say more about this. I've been thinking about the MJ2 for my 650s, but the Valhalla has been on my mind as well. I'm currently using a Centrance HiFi-M8, and also really liked the early Asgard 1 with the 650s. Thanks!

 

[AustinValentine]

  Absolutely bringing my HD650 to the show. I know a guy at the show has the Bottlehead and the original Gungnir, and I actually heard my headphones on a Woo Audio WA3 at the last show - both pairings were fantastic. Please let me know if this gets too off topic, but here goes. I still have a Valhalla, but I was planning to sell:
 

1. Is there is a significant difference between generation 1 (which I own) and generation 2? To my ears, there is a glare with my Valhalla that I found I do not like. That is why I migrated to the JDS Labs Element. The Valhalla just exhausts my ears in minutes, even today (listening now) with the Multibit.
2. Is there a burn-in associated with the Valhalla? I've owned it since February, so it has quite a few hours on it. But due to the tiring sound, I've never just sat down and listened for hours, nor have I left the tubes just sitting playing music.

 
Tube upgrades sounds like an option if they can smooth out the glare. But I think I'd prefer a PM or link to the thread posts 

Back to the show!

 
The Valhalla 2 doesn't really have much of anything in common with the Valhalla 1. It's a significant leap in quality across the board. 
 
(As an added bonus, the stock tubes in the Val 2 are also quite good.)

 

[DougD]

 
 
The $300 vs $950 is pretty representative of the price contrast on the new market IMO. But, in any case, the main point stands: the HD650s rock at their price point. 

 
One of the fun things about Amazon is that you can get a 3rd party app (CamelCamel) that does daily price tracking on various items. Having read Jason Stoddard's serial masterpiece "(+/-) The Schitt Story", buying through Amazon may not be the best way of supporting your favorite manufacturers of audio gear, but nevertheless the pricing info is interesting. 
 
The HD-650's price, as I've noted here before, is notably volatile. The MSRP is $499 (USD), but it's almost always available for a significantly better price. 
 
At the moment, new HD-650s sold by or through Amazon (USA) are running at $420 USD, which is just below the MAXIMUM price they've had since mid-Nov. From Feb 9 through June 16 there was never a day when you would have had to pay more than $350; for most of that period, the daily price was at or below $325; and there were five brief periods where the price hit $300 or lower. 
 
Most people would not challenge the assertion that the LCD-2 is a Tier 1 set of 'phones, but the venerable HD-650, which is arguably also on the edges of that conversation, and typically available new for 1/3 of the cost of the LCD-2, is one of the best values in all of hi-fi. 
 
(Caveat: world-wide pricing is complex and mysterious, this may not be true everywhere.) 

 

[JK-47]

  I wonder if you could say more about this. I've been thinking about the MJ2 for my 650s, but the Valhalla has been on my mind as well. I'm currently using a Centrance HiFi-M8, and also really liked the early Asgard 1 with the 650s. Thanks!

The HD650's sounded thin and seemed to be missing the lush mids with the MJ2. I have SE and balanced HD650 cables, balanced didn't really help the cause all that much. I tried both the LISST and vintage Amperex 6DJ8's. My LCD2.2F's sound great with both my amps.
 
You could always exercise Schiits excellent return policy if the MJ2 doesn't work out for you. Maybe you like a different overall sound than I do, or have a different chain to the amp.

 

[JK-47]

   
One of the fun things about Amazon is that you can get a 3rd party app (CamelCamel) that does daily price tracking on various items. Having read Jason Stoddard's serial masterpiece "(+/-) The Schitt Story", buying through Amazon may not be the best way of supporting your favorite manufacturers of audio gear, but nevertheless the pricing info is interesting. 
 
The HD-650's price, as I've noted here before, is notably volatile. The MSRP is $499 (USD), but it's almost always available for a significantly better price. 
 
At the moment, new HD-650s sold by or through Amazon (USA) are running at $420 USD, which is just below the MAXIMUM price they've had since mid-Nov. From Feb 9 through June 16 there was never a day when you would have had to pay more than $350; for most of that period, the daily price was at or below $325; and there were five brief periods where the price hit $300 or lower. 
 
Most people would not challenge the assertion that the LCD-2 is a Tier 1 set of 'phones, but the venerable HD-650, which is arguably also on the edges of that conversation, and typically available new for 1/3 of the cost of the LCD-2, is one of the best values in all of hi-fi. 
 
(Caveat: world-wide pricing is complex and mysterious, this may not be true everywhere.) 

Hint: If you want a deal...PM the Sonic Electronix rep here on HF, and ask what he can do for you (that is of course if it's in stock)... That goes for anything they carry...

 

[money4me247]

 
The HD650 routinely comes down into the near-$300 range new throughout the year - or at least it has the past couple of years. Buysonic had it at that price just two weeks ago. Sonic Electronix had it for $315 numerous times last year. These deals tend to go on for long durations as well. Sometimes for weeks. It actually seems like sometimes Sennheiser unofficially relaxes their price controls to help vendors clear out excess inventory.
 
LCD-2 deals are far less frequent. (Though they still happen.) The best one I've seen in quite a while is the Sonic Electronics deal for the LCD2 + FiiO X5 for $997 here (which is still going on). Selling off the X5 could result in a near $800 LCD-2. There was also a momentary deal that resulted in a $650-700 LCD-2, but that only went on for a few hours a couple months ago and briefly before that in Late Jan/Early Feb. Prior to that, IIRC, the last deal on a new LCD-2 was the ~$800 deal from MusicDirect in March of last year. That's a pretty long time between deals. Around 10 months. 
 
The $300 vs $950 is pretty representative of the price contrast on the new market IMO. But, in any case, the main point stands: the HD650s rock at their price point. 

This is accurate.
 
Anyone who has been following the sales thread or headphone pricing in general knows that the HD650 real-world pricing for new can range from $320ish to $500. Audeze headphones on the other hand typically are only rarely available for discount. Only places with official Audeze deals I've seen was buysonic/sonic electronics/live wave sound coupon accidentally working for the audeze headphones, though you can often get headphones for cheaper if your audio dealer is cool & you keep it on the downlow.
 
that being said, the pricing of relative headphones does not correlate very well with actual performance, and I would strongly recommend not using price points to determine the level of sound quality/performance you will get. pricing can appear quite random when you run direct comparisons of headphones to assess sound quality. companies just typically price where they can make the best profit margins. depends more on supply & demand and what image the company is trying to promote rather than an actual linear scale of sound quality. sound sig preferences also weight heavily into this.
 
so that being said, there is absolutely no reason to require a expensive pair of headphones to get returns from an amp/dac, but from my personal experience, I would recommend spending the majority of your budget into your headphones at first as headphones changes will have a larger impact on overall sound signature/quality than the additional of external components (which typically will be much more subtle refinements compared to the differences between two headphones). However, once you find the 'perfect' pair of headphones for you and are not looking for dramatic alterations to the sound signature and just like a little bit more refinement, it is a good idea to look into what kind of external components pair well with the headphones you choose.
 
hope this is helpful to the discussion.