Schiit Yggdrasil Impressions thread
Jul 2, 2021 at 5:13 PM Post #10,501 of 12,309
What happens when you move the Mjo2 away from the Yggy... any effect?

Yggy has a proper PSU built into it, and with it comes some sizeable transformers. Sometimes a transformer is just noisy (mfg issue), or sometimes it's caused by your power lines feeding them. If you have the luxury of doing so, I'd try plugging it in on a completely different circuit at your place (or even better, bring it to a buddy's place and try there).

Are you comfortable using a multimeter? If so, it'd be interesting to see how your lines measure (AC & DC voltage) as an extra data point.
 
Jul 2, 2021 at 10:49 PM Post #10,502 of 12,309
What happens when you move the Mjo2 away from the Yggy... any effect?

Yggy has a proper PSU built into it, and with it comes some sizeable transformers. Sometimes a transformer is just noisy (mfg issue), or sometimes it's caused by your power lines feeding them. If you have the luxury of doing so, I'd try plugging it in on a completely different circuit at your place (or even better, bring it to a buddy's place and try there).

Are you comfortable using a multimeter? If so, it'd be interesting to see how your lines measure (AC & DC voltage) as an extra data point.
Checking into it now!

Might be able to do the latter as well. Will update.

And I have a multimeter haha. Will do a little reading to see about my line measurements. Appreciated!
 
Jul 2, 2021 at 11:32 PM Post #10,503 of 12,309
Yggy has a proper PSU built into it, and with it comes some sizeable transformers. Sometimes a transformer is just noisy (mfg issue), or sometimes it's caused by your power lines feeding them.
Specifically, a DC offset in AC power can cause transformer hum. That's why these gadgets exist. I my previous house, I had a Hegel H360 amp with big transformers that hummed until I plugged it into one of those. However, the Yggdrasil on the same circuit did not hum, so YMMV.
 
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Jul 4, 2021 at 4:50 PM Post #10,504 of 12,309
"Channel imbalance"? (Note : I am only using this expression cautiously, for lack of a more accurate designation of the problem I seem to be having).

This has been a long standing issue I have been having with my system, but after a process of elimination, it seems as if it is located in the Yggy, although this is one problem I would normally and typically associate with an amp. Please read on :

I wonder whether anyone has ever felt this somewhat irksome, "now off now on," feeling that something (an invisible weightiness) is missing from one side of the channel balance (in my case the right side is the usual culprit) in the sound-field one is getting?

It is particularly annoying because all individual notes seem to sound equally strong on both sides of the divide, and yet there is often this vague sense, that a sense of fullness is present on one side (the left in my case), which is absent on the other side. Occasionally, it takes the form of a shift in the "center of gravity" of the music itself shifting slightly to left side, although I continue to hear most notes on the right side as strongly as I do those on the left. I am tempted to think that this particular sense of imbalance affects particularly bass or lower end notes, but how might that be possible with a DAC? What function or "malfunction" of a DAC might lead to the exhibition of this kind of behavior"? I do not know, but read on.

This is something I might under some circumstances dismiss as instances of my "mind" or "ears" playing tricks on me. But I have ruled this possibility out by taking an actual hearing test, which determined that there was nothing wrong with my hearing, either on the left or the right side.

With that said, I do see one piece of very compelling evidence that I cannot ignore or dismiss. My Yggy feeds two Emotiva XPA-1 monoblocks, both of which have led meters. The signal strength of the led-meter readings on the left-side monoblock look much stronger, most of the time, than the readings on the right-side monoblock. Because my first impulse was to associate such problems of imbalance with amps rather than DACs, I sent back the right-side Monoblock amp to Emotiva for warranty servicing about a year or two ago, and, to my dismay (or my relief, depending on how one looks at it), they returned it without discovering any problems with it, after performing all kinds of tests on that amp.

Not too long ago, I started detecting the same, "now on, now off" vague sense of imbalance in my Violectric V281 headamp as well. Again, suspecting that the amp was beginning to have channel imbalance issues, I sent it to Power Holdings for a thorough service check, which it passed with flying colors (Sigh).

I have sold the V281 in order to upgrade to a Niimbus US4, which arrived yesterday. When the Niimbus arrived, I first paired it with my Sonnet Morpheus DAC, and drove my Susvara with this particular pairing for several hours of listening bliss until the wee hours of this morning.

Around noon today I paired the Niimbus with my Yggy, and guess the very first thing that struck me? Yes, you guessed right: it was my dear old friend, the vague friggin sense of imbalance which I had sort of completely forgotten, because I have been doing most of my recent headphone listening on a different rig (Sonnet Morpheus/Pathos InPol Ear), which shows none of those vague imbalance symptoms.

You know what is even more annoying? After listening to the Yggy/Niimbus pairing for about an hour, i do not hear that sense of imbalance anymore. Right at this moment, as I type these words, the Susvara is sounding great on the Niimbus/Yggy pairing as if there is nothing wrong with the Yggy or the sound, or the sense of balance

If you're wondering why I have never complained about this problem to Schiit Audio, it is because of this "Now on, now off" character of this particular symptom I have been describing. What if they're unable to reproduce the problem when I send the Yggy back?

Still, I feel if they were to hook the Yggy to some kind of meter, they might be able to see the imbalance I see in the led-meter readings on my two monoblock amps. In the light of these considerations, I feel compelled to send the Yggy back for warranty servicing one of these days, so that they might do a thorough investigation of this problem, and solve it if it is indeed a problem. The most important reason is that the three year warranty extension that i got when I sent my Yggy in for the Analog 2 upgrade will expire in September, so I might as well take advantage of the warranty servicing opportunity now.

The other reason is that I have purchased the Unison USB module with the intention of doing a self-install, which I have never mustered the courage to do. So I could ask them to do the Unison USB install for me during the service check.

I have documented this issue on this thread now in order to solicit the input of those who are more familiar with DAC technology than I am... First of all, does it make sense at all to speak of a "channel imbalance" in DACs, and is the problem I am describing ringing any familiar bells anyone can think of?

Thanks for your input.
 
Jul 4, 2021 at 4:57 PM Post #10,505 of 12,309
"Channel imbalance"? (Note : I am only using this expression cautiously, for lack of a more accurate designation of the problem I seem to be having).

This has been a long standing issue I have been having with my system, but after a process of elimination, it seems as if it is located in the Yggy, although this is one problem I would normally and typically associate with an amp. Please read on :

I wonder whether anyone has ever felt this somewhat irksome, "now off now on," feeling that something (an invisible weightiness) is missing from one side of the channel balance (in my case the right side is the usual culprit) in the sound-field one is getting?

It is particularly annoying because all individual notes seem to sound equally strong on both sides of the divide, and yet there is often this vague sense, that a sense of fullness is present on one side (the left in my case), which is absent on the other side. Occasionally, it takes the form of a shift in the "center of gravity" of the music itself shifting slightly to left side, although I continue to hear most notes on the right side as strongly as I do those on the left. I am tempted to think that this particular sense of imbalance affects particularly bass or lower end notes, but how might that be possible with a DAC? What function or "malfunction" of a DAC might lead to the exhibition of this kind of behavior"? I do not know, but read on.

This is something I might under some circumstances dismiss as instances of my "mind" or "ears" playing tricks on me. But I have ruled this possibility out by taking an actual hearing test, which determined that there was nothing wrong with my hearing, either on the left or the right side.

With that said, I do see one piece of very compelling evidence that I cannot ignore or dismiss. My Yggy feeds two Emotiva XPA-1 monoblocks, both of which have led meters. The signal strength of the led-meter readings on the left-side monoblock look much stronger, most of the time, than the readings on the right-side monoblock. Because my first impulse was to associate such problems of imbalance with amps rather than DACs, I sent back the right-side Monoblock amp to Emotiva for warranty servicing about a year or two ago, and, to my dismay (or my relief, depending on how one looks at it), they returned it without discovering any problems with it, after performing all kinds of tests on that amp.

Not too long ago, I started detecting the same, "now on, now off" vague sense of imbalance in my Violectric V281 headamp as well. Again, suspecting that the amp was beginning to have channel imbalance issues, I sent it to Power Holdings for a thorough service check, which it passed with flying colors (Sigh).

I have sold the V281 in order to upgrade to a Niimbus US4, which arrived yesterday. When the Niimbus arrived, I first paired it with my Sonnet Morpheus DAC, and drove my Susvara with this particular pairing for several hours of listening bliss until the wee hours of this morning.

Around noon today I paired the Niimbus with my Yggy, and guess the very first thing that struck me? Yes, you guessed right: it was my dear old friend, the vague friggin sense of imbalance which I had sort of completely forgotten, because I have been doing most of my recent headphone listening on a different rig (Sonnet Morpheus/Pathos InPol Ear), which shows none of those vague imbalance symptoms.

You know what is even more annoying? After listening to the Yggy/Niimbus pairing for about an hour, i do not hear that sense of imbalance anymore. Right at this moment, as I type these words, the Susvara is sounding great on the Niimbus/Yggy pairing as if there is nothing wrong with the Yggy or the sound, or the sense of balance

If you're wondering why I have never complained about this problem to Schiit Audio, it is because of this "Now on, now off" character of this particular symptom I have been describing. What if they're unable to reproduce the problem when I send the Yggy back?

Still, I feel if they were to hook the Yggy to some kind of meter, they might be able to see the imbalance I see in the led-meter readings on my two monoblock amps. In the light of these considerations, I feel compelled to send the Yggy back for warranty servicing one of these days, so that they might do a thorough investigation of this problem, and solve it if it is indeed a problem. The most important reason is that the three year warranty extension that i got when I sent my Yggy in for the Analog 2 upgrade will expire in September, so I might as well take advantage of the warranty servicing opportunity now.

The other reason is that I have purchased the Unison USB module with the intention of doing a self-install, which I have never mustered the courage to do. So I could ask them to do the Unison USB install for me during the service check.

I have documented this issue on this thread now in order to solicit the input of those who are more familiar with DAC technology than I am... First of all, does it make sense at all to speak of a "channel imbalance" in DACs, and is the problem I am describing ringing any familiar bells anyone can think of?

Thanks for your input.
No input from me other than you could have simply swapped the monoblocks prior to sending one back for service. If the right channel were still the weak one, that rules out either amp as the problem. FWIW.
 
Jul 4, 2021 at 5:28 PM Post #10,506 of 12,309
No input from me other than you could have simply swapped the monoblocks prior to sending one back for service. If the right channel were still the weak one, that rules out either amp as the problem. FWIW.
Yeah, you're right. But I only thought of that after the testing results came back. Silly me!
 
Jul 4, 2021 at 11:29 PM Post #10,507 of 12,309
Say there.
Have you swapped the L&R cables from the dac to the amps to see if that moves the problem to the other channel?
How about running a mono test tone thru your dac to see what the meters on the amps say?
And/or used a dvm to measure the output voltages from the 2 amps using said test tones?

Just a few initial thoughts

JJ
 
Jul 5, 2021 at 4:57 AM Post #10,508 of 12,309
Say there.
Have you swapped the L&R cables from the dac to the amps to see if that moves the problem to the other channel?
How about running a mono test tone thru your dac to see what the meters on the amps say?
And/or used a dvm to measure the output voltages from the 2 amps using said test tones?

Just a few initial thoughts

JJ
I seem to remember swapping the L & R cables on the monoblocks one time in the past when I was sensing the imbalance between the speakers... It must have been after the regular right pole monoblock returned from the warranty servicing trip. If I remember correctly, swapping the wires simply reversed the pattern of the led-display meters on the two monoblocks. If I should decide to send the Yggy back to Schiit audio for testing, I shall swap those interconnects again and send the Yggy only if the pattern reverses itself to show that the problem remains on the same right side of the Yggy. That lopsided pattern of the display lights is the only thing resembling an "objective" piece of evidence indicating that there might be a problem.

Unfortunately, I do not have the expertise (or the equipment) to run the mono test tone or measure the output voltages of the monoblocks as you have suggested.
 
Jul 5, 2021 at 6:15 AM Post #10,509 of 12,309
Say there…
Try swapping just the L&R cables at the amps (making the L channel amp the R channel etc) as well as unplug both cables and use the L channel cable to feed the R channel amp and visa versa as well.

This will tell you if the cables are contributing to the imbalance as well as perhaps if the cables are not making 'ideal' connection at either end by the complete unplugging them and then reconnecting them.
And while you have them unplugged clean both ends of both cables just to make sure there is no 'crud' getting in the way.

After all of this you'll know if it's the amps, the cables or the Jggy dac.

JJ
 
Jul 9, 2021 at 11:57 AM Post #10,510 of 12,309
What happens when you move the Mjo2 away from the Yggy... any effect?

Yggy has a proper PSU built into it, and with it comes some sizeable transformers. Sometimes a transformer is just noisy (mfg issue), or sometimes it's caused by your power lines feeding them. If you have the luxury of doing so, I'd try plugging it in on a completely different circuit at your place (or even better, bring it to a buddy's place and try there).

Are you comfortable using a multimeter? If so, it'd be interesting to see how your lines measure (AC & DC voltage) as an extra data point.

Alright so far, moving the Mjo (and any other larger electronics) away hasn't affected anything. Will try a new location next.

Specifically, a DC offset in AC power can cause transformer hum. That's why these gadgets exist. I my previous house, I had a Hegel H360 amp with big transformers that hummed until I plugged it into one of those. However, the Yggdrasil on the same circuit did not hum, so YMMV.

You have one of the Emotica units specifically?
 
Jul 9, 2021 at 5:19 PM Post #10,511 of 12,309
You have one of the Emotica units specifically?
Yes but using it currently, moved and replaced speaker systems for other reasons, no transformer hum from anything.
 
Aug 4, 2021 at 2:31 PM Post #10,512 of 12,309
I'm currently auditioning a Sparkos Aries headphone amp and wanted to use it with my Yggy, but it looks like that ain't gonna happen 'cos when I connect my Yggy's RCA outputs to the Sparkos' RCA inputs the amp's LCD display shows a DC warning. This is the first time I've been made aware of the presence of DC on the Yggy's outputs, my other amps have no way of issuing such a warning. I'm curious if any other Yggy owners have discovered the presence DC on Yggy's RCA outputs? The Aries amp I am demoing is RCA only (they didn't have a balanced model in stock) so I am unable to try the Yggy's BAL outputs with this amp.

51357291906_733ee278bf_o.jpg
 
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Aug 4, 2021 at 2:32 PM Post #10,513 of 12,309
I'm currently trialling a Sparkos Aries headphone amp, hoping to use it with my Yggy, but it looks like that ain't gonna happen 'cos when I connect my Yggy's RCA outputs to the Sparkos' RCA inputs the amp's LCD display shows a DC offset warning. This is the first time I've been made aware of the presence of DC on the Yggy's outputs, my other amps have no way of issuing such a warning. I'm curious if any other Yggy owners have DC on the RCA outputs? The Aries amp I am demoing is RCA only (they didn't have a balanced model in stock) so I am unable to try the Yggy's BAL outputs with this amp.

51357291906_733ee278bf_o.jpg
Is this without playing any music? Or does it warn you only after music playback?
 
Aug 4, 2021 at 2:43 PM Post #10,515 of 12,309
I just tested mine, and it shows 0.0mV DC on my RCAs into my preamp.

Do you happen to have a multimeter handy? I'd test quick by placing one tip on the RCA tip, and one tip on the outer plug ring (ground). Just make sure you're on the DC setting (mV preferably).
 

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