[xenophilic]

I was just summarizing what I learned from asking people who would know. I'm no expert. However, my understanding of what I've learned is that you want to have a resistor in the cable so that impedance of the XLR output from the Yggdrasil is more closely matching the input impedance of whatever you are connecting to. I don't see any reason why this would be different for an amp vs. a pre-amp.
 
I also have no experience with the difference between using the RCA output on the Yggdrasil vs. using this XLR to RCA cable approach. My Yggdrasil is shipping sometime in August according to current estimates by Schiit.
 
It may be that any improved clarity is minor or in combination with other changes, who knows what. Of course I'm working on the XLR to RCA approach because there's a promise of slightly better sound, but would I really be disappointed with it using the RCA outputs? Probably not.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  I was just summarizing what I learned from asking people who would know. I'm no expert. However, my understanding of what I've learned is that you want to have a resistor in the cable so that impedance of the XLR output from the Yggdrasil is more closely matching the input impedance of whatever you are connecting to. I don't see any reason why this would be different for an amp vs. a pre-amp.
 
I also have no experience with the difference between using the RCA output on the Yggdrasil vs. using this XLR to RCA cable approach. My Yggdrasil is shipping sometime in August according to current estimates by Schiit.
 
It may be that any improved clarity is minor or in combination with other changes, who knows what. Of course I'm working on the XLR to RCA approach because there's a promise of slightly better sound, but would I really be disappointed with it using the RCA outputs? Probably not.

 
Yeah, it's nothing to worry over. I would eventually get an amp with balanced input anyway. I'm glad you shared this info, though.

 

[artur9]

 
Schiit even provided a circuit diagram
 

 
 
 I hope this helps.

Wow!  That's awesome on the part of Schiit. I'm out of balanced inputs on my preamp so don't see the need to move from the Bifrost to the higher grade models.  Hence the waiting for the Bifrost upgrade to R2R-ness.

 

[DACLadder]

  Schiit even provided a circuit diagram
 

 
 
 I hope this helps.

 
I'm going to have to think about this one.  In a truly balanced DAC with the method above you are effectively not using 1 of the 2 DAC chip pairs per side.  You get no benefit of common mode rejection of power supplies, smoothing out linearity, better S./N, etc. Did Schiit recommend this cable change specific for the Yggy or just in general?   In a single DAC chip unit the above change makes sense if you have to add a amplifier to just invert the signal to drive pin 1 (-) of the balance output. 
 
But proof is in the audio quality so no harm in trying!

 

[Sko0byDoo]

Saw this at a time I was looking into XLR-to-RCA isolation.  Would this be a better solution, albeit more costly?
 

 

[skeptic]

 
Regarding the XLR Yggdrasil output to RCA singled-ended input cable question, Schiit has passed on more specific information to Pete at Triode Wire Labs who is very kindly making up the needed cables.

Schiit recommends "matching the input impedance of your device input with the resistor."

Schiit even provided a circuit diagram
 

 
 
 I hope this helps.

 
Thanks for sharing this info!  I had read that xlr to rca adapters, as recommended a while back in the other yggy thread, weren't always a good idea, depending on the source, because they result in an unequal load on the circuit.  But here, by building a customer adapter or cable where the resister matches the amp's input impedance, I imagine that becomes a total nonissue.  Very cool.  Looking forward to trying my hand at this.
 
[Edit - turns out that this was not actually recommended by schiit, so I'm not bothering.]

 

[xenophilic]

   
I'm going to have to think about this one.  In a truly balanced DAC with the method above you are effectively not using 1 of the 2 DAC chip pairs per side.  You get no benefit of common mode rejection of power supplies, smoothing out linearity, better S./N, etc. Did Schiit recommend this cable change specific for the Yggy or just in general?   In a single DAC chip unit the above change makes sense if you have to add a amplifier to just invert the signal to drive pin 1 (-) of the balance output. 
 
But proof is in the audio quality so no harm in trying!

 
Hmmm
 
The XLR to RCA cable is meant only as an alternative to using the RCA outputs from the Yggdrasil when feeding a pre-amp with single-ended RCA inputs. So the baseline for comparison for this XLR to RCA option is RCA to RCA output.
 
Regarding the "benefit of common mode rejection" -- wouldn't you lose that going from the Yggdrasil RCA outputs to RCA inputs anyway?
 
What is the disadvantage of having only one DAC per side? If the second DAC per side is only needed to maintained a balanced topology, are we getting any benefit from that 2nd DAC per side when using the RCA output?
 
I wouldn't claim that Schiit has recommended the XLR to RCA cable that I wrote about, but when I asked them about it they said somewhat encouragingly that "It does bypass additional circuitry which is generally a good idea."
 
When the time comes next month, I'll have an RCA to RCA interconnect and the XLR to RCA interconnect, both from Triode Wire Labs, so I can compare the two. The theoretical discussion is very interesting, but fortunately I'll be able to resolve it with listening.

 

[DACLadder]

   
Hmmm
 
The XLR to RCA cable is meant only as an alternative to using the RCA outputs from the Yggdrasil when feeding a pre-amp with single-ended RCA inputs. So the baseline for comparison for this XLR to RCA option is RCA to RCA output.
 
Regarding the "benefit of common mode rejection" -- wouldn't you lose that going from the Yggdrasil RCA outputs to RCA inputs anyway?
 
What is the disadvantage of having only one DAC per side? If the second DAC per side is only needed to maintained a balanced topology, are we getting any benefit from that 2nd DAC per side when using the RCA output?
 
I wouldn't claim that Schiit has recommended the XLR to RCA cable that I wrote about, but when I asked them about it they said somewhat encouragingly that "It does bypass additional circuitry which is generally a good idea."
 
When the time comes next month, I'll have an RCA to RCA interconnect and the XLR to RCA interconnect, both from Triode Wire Labs, so I can compare the two. The theoretical discussion is very interesting, but fortunately I'll be able to resolve it with listening.

You bring up some good points but Schiit would have to answer.  I don't know for sure and I am just thinking out loud.  Hopefully both DACs per side are used in this process or I would feel the Schiit design team cut corners for the signal ended outputs.  You would gain better signal-to-noise, linearity, and common mode rejection of the power supplies if you keep it balanced until the very last step before driving the RCA outputs.  Once the signal leaves the Yggy unbalanced then different rules apply of course.  Yes, I agree there may be a few transistors in the single ended summation circuit that may not be needed for balanced.  Hopefully, they don't use an OpAmp which is the way to do it cheaply.  And I know the AGD Master 7 does single ended summation this way as I asked Kingwa if all DAC chips were used for single ended outputs.
 
But I'll surely give it a go if people claim it sounds best! 

 

[xenophilic]

The only one who claims it sounds better is the guy who posted the tweaks. I'm just chancing it and will have to see for myself.

 

[DACLadder]

  The only one who claims it sounds better is the guy who posted the tweaks. I'm just chancing it and will have to see for myself.

Let us know how it goes.  Never know until you try and thanks.

 

[Exidrion]

Why are you getting so upset over the fact that he wants to make modifications? Even if there are no actual sonic benefits, like tweakers tweak. His money, time, and warranty.

Do you say the same over modded headphones?

 

[Jason Stoddard]

 
Regarding the XLR Yggdrasil output to RCA singled-ended input cable question, Schiit has passed on more specific information to Pete at Triode Wire Labs who is very kindly making up the needed cables.

Schiit recommends "matching the input impedance of your device input with the resistor."

Schiit even provided a circuit diagram
 

 
Ummm...to be clear, this is NOT an endorsement of running a single output phase preferentially over the summed outputs. There are actual engineering reasons why you'd prefer summed outputs, one of which is abundantly clear on the AD5791 datasheet. 
 
That said, if you want to experiment, there's no harm that will come of it. 

 

[Jones Bob]

Why are you getting so upset over the fact that he wants to make modifications? Even if there are no actual sonic benefits, like tweakers tweak. His money, time, and warranty.

Do you say the same over modded headphones?

I assume you were addressing my comments.

I am not upset one bit about anyone wanting to tweek what they bought.

What I don't like is someone posting tweeks for others to do, without knowledge or experience of the actual product. It contibutes to a false perception that the product is flawed in some way from the factory and needs to be "fixed". Especially when they are a MOT, and they garner their income from selling even more advanced such tweeks.

Seems to me like he trying to build a budding business at Schiit's expense.

But that is just my opinion....

 

[xenophilic]

   
Ummm...to be clear, this is NOT an endorsement of running a single output phase preferentially over the summed outputs. There are actual engineering reasons why you'd prefer summed outputs, one of which is abundantly clear on the AD5791 datasheet. 
 
That said, if you want to experiment, there's no harm that will come of it. 

 
Thank you very much for clarifying. As you suggest, my interest is experimental.

 

[RoundRound]

Any news regarding when the next batch of Yggy's will be shipped? I'm waiting since June now...
Especially after having a home demo (in the UK) of the Yggy for about a week I know how good my system COULD sound...