Schiit Valhalla Tube Rolling thread.

[rb2013]

  Bob,
 
I'm about 99% sure that ECC99 does not have the same pinout as 6N6P. ECC99 and E182CC both have the dual voltage heater. The 6N6P only has 6.3V heater. 
 
Thus the ECC99 and E182CC have 3 heater pins, one for either end and a center tap. If wired in parallel, they are 6.3C, if series then 12. Please do not just plug in ECC99 to your Val!
 
The 6N6P tubes use that extra pin for a grounded screen between the two triodes.

Thanks for the advice!  I trust you more then that website.  So would those modded socket savers work for the ECC99/12BH7 like the E182CC/7119's.  In other words wire the voltage in parallel (6.3V) not series (12V).  Yes 6Volt heaters don't like to supply 12V's - they tend to complain with smoke and sparks! LOL!

 

[rb2013]

 
Thanks for the advice!  I trust you more then that website.  So would those modded socket savers work for the ECC99/12BH7 like the E182CC/7119's.  In other words wire the voltage in parallel (6.3V) not series (12V).  Yes 6Volt heaters don't like to supply 12V's - they tend to complain with smoke and sparks! LOL!

I think I answered my own question - as the pinouts are different.  Never mind.  I am anixous to be able to use wide array of E182CC and 7119's in the Val2.

 

[feilb]

It would work for all E182CC/7119 (which are the same, just EU vs US part numbers) and the ECC99s. All would be configured to use 6.3V heaters. The Amperex i have are actually 7119 parts, as they are marketed for US. If thats the case, you may already have an identical set?

 

[rb2013]

  It would work for all E182CC/7119 (which are the same, just EU vs US part numbers) and the ECC99s. All would be configured to use 6.3V heaters. The Amperex i have are actually 7119 parts, as they are marketed for US. If thats the case, you may already have an identical set?

On My APL DAC - which uses the ECC99 and will run the 12BH7 - I was told by the designer that:
 

  Hi Bob,
 
Here are the data sheets for both tubes:
 
http://www.jj-electronic.sk/pdf/ECC99.pdf
 
http://www.mif.pg.gda.pl/homepages/frank/sheets/009/e/E182CC.pdf
 
As you can see, there are two pins to swap - the cathode and the anode of the second tube section. The firs section is the same as ECC99, as well as the filament pins.
 
So basically you have to swap pin6 with pin9, and pin 8 with pin 6.
 
Please see the attached image.
 
Please use caution because you can blow up things easily. If something is not clear, please ask me first before powering up the unit.
 
In my experience, the vintage original Philips E182CC are the best, but not the early pinched waist ones as they sound dull to me.
 
You need the same as these (ironically sold from my home country Bulgaria):
 
http://www.ebay.com/itm/TESTED-MATCHED-PAIR-of-E182CC-PHILIPS-Heerlen-Double-Triode-Audio-TUBES-7119-/251585238235?pt=Vintage_Electronics_R2&hash=item3a93a614db
 
Best regards,
Alex

  Then provided this diagram for the pin rewiring:
 


Unfortunately without a major unsodlering job - no access to the bottom of the tube sockets.  And no room for a tube riser.
 
PS I still want yours as my DAC only uses one tube and I have only a single.  The Val2 would need a pair.  So still interested.

 

[feilb]

His pin swap will work because 12BH7, ECC99/E182CC are all dual heater voltage tubes. To adapt it to 6N6P pinout which only supports 6.3V (which is the same as ECC88/7308/6922/ECC85/6N1P)
 
6N6P socket    ->    E182CC/ECC99 tube
 
1                            1         (a')
2                            2         (g')
3                            3         (k')
4                            4, 5     (ends of heater)
5                            8         (center of heater)
6                            9         (a)
7                            7         (g)
8                            6         (k)
9                            NC      (grounded triode separation shield on 6n6p, does not exist in E182CC)

 

[BobFiggins]

Never tube rolled before. My full experience has been sticking the Valhalla 2 tubes in that came with it.
 
With that said, are there any tubes for the Val2, that can keep the energy of the music like the stock tubes, but roll off the treble a little bit? Looking for some ease in the sibilance with my HD700. Thanks!

 

[rb2013]

  Never tube rolled before. My full experience has been sticking the Valhalla 2 tubes in that came with it.
 
With that said, are there any tubes for the Val2, that can keep the energy of the music like the stock tubes, but roll off the treble a little bit? Looking for some ease in the sibilance with my HD700. Thanks!

I would try the '71, '72 or '73 Voskhod 6N23P Gray Shield with the single wire getter post.  They are very smooth in the high end and yet have excellent dynamics.  They're around $40 for a matched pair.
 
Generally the 6N23p is a smoother tube then the 6N1P.  With the possible exception of the very rare '66 Voshkod triple mice black anode 6n1p.
 
As a side note - I upgraded the cable on my HD800 to the Moon Black Dragon V2 - What a nice improvement.  The best was the complete elimination of the Senn Sibilance.  A richer tonality - more LCDish - yet still neutral.  Deeper bass as well.  I think without this cord I would have sold my HD800s for the LCD-3s.  Now it's the best of both worlds.
Keep an eye on the classifieds as the Moon cables come up sometimes.  I think the HD700's uses the same connector as the HD800's - but I would check first.

 

[BobFiggins]

 
I would try the '71, '72 or '73 Voskhod 6N23P Gray Shield with the single wire getter post.  They are very smooth in the high end and yet have excellent dynamics.  They're around $40 for a matched pair.
 
Generally the 6N23p is a smoother tube then the 6N1P.  With the possible exception of the very rare '66 Voshkod triple mice black anode 6n1p.
 
As a side note - I upgraded the cable on my HD800 to the Moon Black Dragon V2 - What a nice improvement.  The best was the complete elimination of the Senn Sibilance.  A richer tonality - more LCDish - yet still neutral.  Deeper bass as well.  I think without this cord I would have sold my HD800s for the LCD-3s.  Now it's the best of both worlds.
Keep an eye on the classifieds as the Moon cables come up sometimes.  I think the HD700's uses the same connector as the HD800's - but I would check first.

The HD700 uses a different connector. Is this the one you are using?
http://www.moon-audio.com/black-dragon-headphone-cable-v2.html
 
I was under the impression for tube amps you want a silver wire, instead of copper. Though if I need copper to remove sibilance, is this what I'd pick, as it's also copper? http://www.moon-audio.com/blu3-dragon-cable-sennheiser-hd700-headphones.html
 
Also as for the information I appreciate it, however I don't really understand it. I know the Valhalla 2 uses two different types of tubes, so which one goes where? Would the 6N23P go on the left/right side top, and another different type of tube go in the other two lower slots? Or do you not replace all the tubes in the Valhalla 2, just the large ones? I really am clueless when it comes to this, I think I need a ELI5 for the Valhalla 2, since it uses 4 tube slots, I'm assuming the left side is the left channel, and the right side is the right channel? Though what tubes go where?

 

[rb2013]

  The HD700 uses a different connector. Is this the one you are using?
http://www.moon-audio.com/black-dragon-headphone-cable-v2.html
 
I was under the impression for tube amps you want a silver wire, instead of copper. Though if I need copper to remove sibilance, is this what I'd pick, as it's also copper? http://www.moon-audio.com/blu3-dragon-cable-sennheiser-hd700-headphones.html
 
Also as for the information I appreciate it, however I don't really understand it. I know the Valhalla 2 uses two different types of tubes, so which one goes where? Would the 6N23P go on the left/right side top, and another different type of tube go in the other two lower slots? Or do you not replace all the tubes in the Valhalla 2, just the large ones? I really am clueless when it comes to this, I think I need a ELI5 for the Valhalla 2, since it uses 4 tube slots, I'm assuming the left side is the left channel, and the right side is the right channel? Though what tubes go where?

Yes that's them!  Funny Story when I first got my HD800's years ago - I bought an after market cable for it.  There was only a couple at the time - I loved what it did for the 800's  It failed after many years of daily use and I went back to stock.  What a let down - gone was the rich tone and deep bass -and back was the sibilance.  So decided to go all out a SAA endorphin.  He had a 6 months wait list at the time and it was like $700 in a 10ft.  So I stumbled on to the Moon -it was way cheaper and immediately available.  I still intended to get the SAA - but fell in love with the Moon Black Dragon V2 after a long breakin.  At the time Drew recommended the Black (copper) for the HD800's
 
I still have it and love it - very well made. And yes the silver will not tame the sibilance like the copper will.
 
The Val2 uses a signal tube  -6n1p/6n23p/6922/E88C - and an output tube 6n6p.  The signal tube in the Lyr is the same - the output in the Lyr are class Mosfet solid state outputs.  Most of the rolling in the Val2 is the signal tube - as there really isn't much available in the way of different 6n6p's.  The 6n23p/6n1p are the smaller tube in the front - side y side for left and right - check the manual.  You can give Schiit a call they'll walk you through it - it's not to complicated.

 

[BobFiggins]

Ah, thanks for clarifying.
 
Would the Voskhod 6N23P Gray Shield be like mixing an OTL amp with a tube amp in terms of sound? Dynamic, but still slightly more relaxed?

 

[rb2013]

  Ah, thanks for clarifying.
 
Would the Voskhod 6N23P Gray Shield be like mixing an OTL amp with a tube amp in terms of sound? Dynamic, but still slightly more relaxed?

Yes - smoother in the highs.  Now going up the latter to the better 6n23p's gets you all kinds of other improvements.  But for low $ - the early '70's SWGP 6n23p Voskhods are very hard to beat. 

 

[feilb]

You might also try Siemens & Halske ECC85s. It was an outstanding tube for me when I had my valhalla 2.

 

[BobFiggins]

  You might also try Siemens & Halske ECC85s. It was an outstanding tube for me when I had my valhalla 2.

 
Could you describe how they sound?

 

[feilb]

They tend to be warm with a nice full mid-low end and a little rolled off above say 10k. I tried them against the Tele E88CCs and while there was no comparison for sheer detail and soundstage, I preferred the ECC85s.

 

[truly194]

So i don't have a schiit Valhalla, but iv'e got different OTL which basis on 6N1P and 6N6P tubes too.
 
But i'm very confused about brand tubes i have. 
 
I have no 3 pairs of tubes - 6N1P - EW, 6N6P, 6N1P - WI. All of them have inscription "OTK", and rhombus in the logo - looks like logo of Foton or old Reflector logo. But in this rhombus is also number "6". I can't find this logo brand anywhere. Maybe You know what is it?