[NoahFence]

Syn 4 channel with Audio Engine speakers

Music only? Don’t spend a fortune? Syn 4 channel with Audio Engine powered speakers works for me.

I have been curious about surround sound ever since J Gorden Holt championed it in the early days of Stereophile. But at that time, 4 speakers and 4 amps? Better to upgrade my then humble 2 channel. And so it continued for let’s not-count-how-many-decades.

And then came Syn. And I have long had a pair of Audio Engine A5+ speakers ($450?) for secondary system use. Now they also have the A2 powered desktop speakers ($270?), which keep one in a complimentary family of sound. Using the A5+ as main speakers and theA2 for rear/L-R speakers, I have all I need for music surround. With the A5+ I have never felt a need for a subwoofer, and I am not into surround for movies so I don’t feel the need for a center speaker. I bought both sets of speakers on sale, so even with $400 for Syn I’m in for less than $1k.

I do feed the Syn via gumby>Lyr, that is not so budget oriented, but I have those in any case. Great sound, and now for me surround is worth it.

Noah

 

[DougD]

Syn 4 channel with Audio Engine speakers

Music only? Don’t spend a fortune? Syn 4 channel with Audio Engine powered speakers works for me.

I have been curious about surround sound ever since J Gorden Holt championed it in the early days of Stereophile. But at that time, 4 speakers and 4 amps? Better to upgrade my then humble 2 channel. And so it continued for let’s not-count-how-many-decades.

And then came Syn. And I have long had a pair of Audio Engine A5+ speakers ($450?) for secondary system use. Now they also have the A2 powered desktop speakers ($270?), which keep one in a complimentary family of sound. Using the A5+ as main speakers and theA2 for rear/L-R speakers, I have all I need for music surround. With the A5+ I have never felt a need for a subwoofer, and I am not into surround for movies so I don’t feel the need for a center speaker. I bought both sets of speakers on sale, so even with $400 for Syn I’m in for less than $1k.

I do feed the Syn via gumby>Lyr, that is not so budget oriented, but I have those in any case. Great sound, and now for me surround is worth it.

Noah

Thanks for this nice little write-up and recommendation, Syn's on my "2023/2024 budget proposal" so I am watching for reviews with interest.

But I am wondering if, without a center speaker, you are getting "the full surround experience."

I am pretty non-technical when it comes to audio equipment, but this is my thinking:
* with "true surround", what comes through the pipes as the center signal is basically what was recorded "center stage."
* whereas w 2-channel, the "apparent center" is a brain illusion created by sound components that are equally present in the left and the right stereo signals.
* Syn (presumably) generates its center signal by combining the L+R incoming signals.
* But if that is all it did, the apparent loudness of the center would be too much, as what the listener would hear would be the synthetic center signal PLUS the "center component" of the Left channel AND the "center component" of the Right channel.
* So ... I'm speculating ... part of the Syn magic is attenuating the Left and Right output signals by removing most of their "common center" sounds.
* When you play the Syn outputs on a 4-speaker system, you're getting the "apparent center" just like 2-channel does, by combining the L+R signals. But those have been adjusted by Syn, so you are not reconstructing the full (original) 2-channel effect.

I looked at the Syn manual, I wasn't clear to me that the controls let you overcome this issue. You of course have the benefit of being able to actually listen to your setup, and experiment with it.

In essence, I believe with your 4-speaker set-up you are listening to what is (+/-) functionally "surround music that has had the center channel extracted & largely excluded."

How significant that is of course depends on the 2-channel mix of your source music.

When you listen to music that has strong center-of-field vocalist, does s/he have volume that's in balance with the rest of the band? And similar to the 2-channel experience?

Everybody can (and should) shoot me down if I am over-simplifying or misunderstanding this.

 

[Pondoro]

Thanks for this nice little write-up and recommendation, Syn's on my "2023/2024 budget proposal" so I am watching for reviews with interest.

But I am wondering if, without a center speaker, you are getting "the full surround experience."

I am pretty non-technical when it comes to audio equipment, but this is my thinking:
* with "true surround", what comes through the pipes as the center signal is basically what was recorded "center stage."
* whereas w 2-channel, the "apparent center" is a brain illusion created by sound components that are equally present in the left and the right stereo signals.
* Syn (presumably) generates its center signal by combining the L+R incoming signals.
* But if that is all it did, the apparent loudness of the center would be too much, as what the listener would hear would be the synthetic center signal PLUS the "center component" of the Left channel AND the "center component" of the Right channel.
* So ... I'm speculating ... part of the Syn magic is attenuating the Left and Right output signals by removing most of their "common center" sounds.
* When you play the Syn outputs on a 4-speaker system, you're getting the "apparent center" just like 2-channel does, by combining the L+R signals. But those have been adjusted by Syn, so you are not reconstructing the full (original) 2-channel effect.

I looked at the Syn manual, I wasn't clear to me that the controls let you overcome this issue. You of course have the benefit of being able to actually listen to your setup, and experiment with it.

In essence, I believe with your 4-speaker set-up you are listening to what is (+/-) functionally "surround music that has had the center channel extracted & largely excluded."

How significant that is of course depends on the 2-channel mix of your source music.

When you listen to music that has strong center-of-field vocalist, does s/he have volume that's in balance with the rest of the band? And similar to the 2-channel experience?

Everybody can (and should) shoot me down if I am over-simplifying or misunderstanding this.

Hafler experimented with synthesized rear channels. Klipsch experimented with a synthesized center channel. Both recommended their experiments as technically valid and sounding good. I’ve messed around with both. Syn lets you easily try both, individually or together. My personal experience for music using either Hafler or Klipsch’s ideas was “sounds different, sounds good” but not necessarily “better.” Absolutely not life changing. I’m not a movie guy nor a gamer. But if you’ve never tried either Hafler or Klipsch’s experiments Syn is an easy and safe way to try them. I know you’ve got extra speakers and amps laying around. You might love the results.

 

[NoahFence]

Responding to DougD's question about the center channel:
The Syn versatility is under rated. Check the manual page on controls, 2 Mode Select...
Left light only: surround channels on, no processing of the main channels.

When I set up this system I was anticipating there might be a problem on Opera, but no.
Pushing the correct buttons, the syn really does give the same output on the main channels as you get with stereo.

Oh, and in the original post I overstated the added cost of surround. I would have the main speakers in any case (A5+, currently on sale for $300).
All I am am out to add surround is the $400 for Syn and the $260 or so for the A2+ surround speakers. (and add something for stands...)
(Hey, Pondoro says you already have the amps and speakers, so you are only out the $400?! ...GoForIt..but then YMMV.)

But then of course I don't have a center speaker to use for comparison. For movies I'm sure it would make a difference
For music vocalists we are quite content.

Noah

 

[Randino]

Hello, New forum member and first post here.

I have a question about the preamp gain on the Syn. I have a first generation Saga and I was actually disappointed that it was basically a passive preamp. You could switch the tube buffer in and out but it made little difference in the output level. I found the output lacking compared to my existing Acurus preamp. The music lost a substantial amount of punch and presence.

These numbers I've copied and pasted from Schiit's website.
These would be output levels stated for the Syn:

Main L/R
Gain: 0dB
Center
Gain: 0dB in absence of processing, up to 12dB with processing
Surround
Gain: 0dB in absence of processing, up to 12dB with processing
Subwoofer Out
Gain: 10dB referenced to mains

I'm comfortable with all of these except those for Main L/R at 0dB.
Would anyone have any comments about this? I want to order a Syn but if that 0dB output level is anything like I've experienced with the Saga, I may have to rethink my purchase decisions.

Thanks!

Just a bit of a follow-up to this post. I'd almost forgotten that I sent a DM to Mr. Stoddard asking about the same questions as above. I sort of got a reply that confirmed what I'd finally figured out. It goes something like this:

Since the Syn has an internal DAC, the DAC will provide output voltage to the remaining circuitry. I believe I'd heard the internal DAC is similar to the current Modi+. I bought a Modi+ for another system and found that there's plenty of output. I'd assume around the 2V we find on most input devices. So while there's 0dB gain for the Main L/R output, it's likely using that 2V input signal provided by the DAC.

Mr. Stoddard's reply: "Yep, no gain inherently. None is needed. We need tons of headroom--+10dB for sub, and about the same for center and surrounds to account for varying sensitivities of speakers, amp gains, etc."

I could be completely off base with this line of thinking so feel free to shoot holes in my assumption. From all this and this forum, I'm comfortable making the purchase.

 

[NightBuho]

Just ordered a Syn. Planning to use it only for home theater with headphones. Will report back on my impressions after spending a little time with it.

 

[Randino]

Just a bit of a follow-up to this post. I'd almost forgotten that I sent a DM to Mr. Stoddard asking about the same questions as above. I sort of got a reply that confirmed what I'd finally figured out. It goes something like this:

Since the Syn has an internal DAC, the DAC will provide output voltage to the remaining circuitry. I believe I'd heard the internal DAC is similar to the current Modi+. I bought a Modi+ for another system and found that there's plenty of output. I'd assume around the 2V we find on most input devices. So while there's 0dB gain for the Main L/R output, it's likely using that 2V input signal provided by the DAC.

Mr. Stoddard's reply: "Yep, no gain inherently. None is needed. We need tons of headroom--+10dB for sub, and about the same for center and surrounds to account for varying sensitivities of speakers, amp gains, etc."

I could be completely off base with this line of thinking so feel free to shoot holes in my assumption. From all this and this forum, I'm comfortable making the purchase.

Following up..... I finally got my SYN purchased and hooked up as a standard stereo amp. Basically, it freakin rocks!! I'm feeding it from my Brennan B2 via USB into the SYN. Apparently the inboard DAC supplies ample power to drive the Acurus 150 amp it's driving. Feeding that into a recently acquired KEF 103.2 speakers. I wanted them 40 years ago when they were new and now I want to kick myself for not tracking down a pair. That digital feed from the Brennan and the DAC in the SYN are a magic combination. I can hardly wait to get my surround sound system hooked up!

 

[zstokes]

About a week ago, my NAD T778 started getting hot and going into protection mode, even though amplification is done externally by a Monolith 5 channel.
I emailed a couple of NAD authorized service centers, and the backlog at these places is long.
I currently have KEF LS 50 Metas as L/C/R, with a KEF sub as well. I started looking into "what's the cheapest way I can get into multichannel processing while this thing is at the doctors" and just randomly searched "schiit multichannel"

And here I am, I ordered a Syn last night. If I can get it dialed in, I'll have the NAD repaired and then sell it. I'm tired of chasing it, just as Jason has said many times.

 

[zstokes]

I got the Syn and plugged it in, wired it up.

I am *impressed* - this little thing is pretty sweet. My Bifrost 2 arrives this afternoon, it’ll be fun to play with both. I am not going back to AVRs.

 

[mystaiced]

Has anyone experienced sound glitches while using Syn? While trying to watch tv or a movie, the sound would glitch every so often. Enough to be annoying. I switched optical cables, but it still kept happening. When I switched out Syn for the Bifrost 2/64, all the glitches went away. Just curious what other people have experienced

 

[monkuboy]

Has anyone experienced sound glitches while using Syn? While trying to watch tv or a movie, the sound would glitch every so often. Enough to be annoying. I switched optical cables, but it still kept happening. When I switched out Syn for the Bifrost 2/64, all the glitches went away. Just curious what other people have experienced

I have been using a Syn for several months and haven't experienced any glitches with anything so far.

 

[Autiomatic]

I have been using a Syn for several months and haven't experienced any glitches with anything so far.

Only glitch I’ve experienced is that the source button on the remote stopped working about a month after my purchase. Thankfully the rest of the buttons still work.

 

[Raveron89]

I've been mulling over the Syn for months now trying to think if Syn or a traditional Avr would be a better fit especially since Syn doesn't offer room correction. Having read mixed responses for head on comparison, do folks here have a preference?
Also how's your experience with Schiit products been? Is it reliable or have you had to send them in for replacement/repair on a yearly basis?
Thanks!

 

[mystaiced]

I've been mulling over the Syn for months now trying to think if Syn or a traditional Avr would be a better fit especially since Syn doesn't offer room correction. Having read mixed responses for head on comparison, do folks here have a preference?
Also how's your experience with Schiit products been? Is it reliable or have you had to send them in for replacement/repair on a yearly basis?
Thanks!

Schiit products are generally extremely reliable. I’ve only had to send one DAC back for a minor issue where the microSD card slid into the case and I didn’t want to void the warranty. In hindsight, it was very easy to retrieve and fix, I probably could have avoided sending back. Everything else has worked well. I ended up sending Syn back (within the 15 day trial) due to the glitching sound and it just not being a good fit for my TV room. Bifrost 2 was just a better fit with my speakers and TV setup.

 

[Autiomatic]

I've been mulling over the Syn for months now trying to think if Syn or a traditional Avr would be a better fit especially since Syn doesn't offer room correction. Having read mixed responses for head on comparison, do folks here have a preference?
Also how's your experience with Schiit products been? Is it reliable or have you had to send them in for replacement/repair on a yearly basis?
Thanks!

I have a fairly extensive list of Schiit products, including the original USB-only Modi, Eitr, Wyrd, original Bifrost Multibit (which I upgraded from the DS version), Modi 3, Vali 2, Heresy, Modi 3, Modius, Asgard 2, and now Syn, and I would probably say the Syn is my favourite piece of Schiit. I use it daily and love the modular aspect of it, in that you can swap out whatever amps you like with it, and functionally speaking, it does exactly what I wanted it to do. I’ve been an AVR fence sitter for a long time and this product made getting an AVR an easy no for me. I personally highly recommend it.